mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,552
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Post by mark on Nov 9, 2012 13:02:28 GMT -8
Uh ... that resolution in 7.9 inch wouldn't be retina!!! Mav was talking about pixels per inch, not about overall resolution. The iPad Mini has a PPI of 163. The iPhone 4 has a PPI of 326, which is exactly double that. What do you need to do to take an iPad Mini (1024x768) display and match the resolution of an iPad 4 display (2048x1536)? Double it. So, an iPad mini with the resolution of a iPad 4 would have the PPI of an iPhone 4 - exactly as Mav said. Yeah, I prematurely pressed "post" before proofreading. But it only took a minute or so, how did you see the unedited version?
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mark
fire starter
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Post by mark on Nov 9, 2012 13:05:04 GMT -8
I think Apple can maintain the same margins with a retina model next year. For those that don't care, the original iPad Mini can be sold for $249 and wipe away the competition at the lower end, similar to what we're seeing with the $0 iPhone 4 / $99 iPhone 4S right now. I'm not sure why you say this. Even if Apple sells the mini at $249 next year, the competition may be selling their at $149 or even $99. Remember, Amazon isn't required to earn a profit on their sales like Apple is! And Google sells advertising, not products, so they can have zero margin if they so choose.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Nov 9, 2012 13:05:46 GMT -8
Blah close.
No AAPL trades today. Missed the day trade but oh well.
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,552
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Post by mark on Nov 9, 2012 13:06:50 GMT -8
That would just about wipe out most of the profit. The 4 and 4s are still sold at higher price than $0 and $99. The carrier subsidy is still being paid to Apple for those phones, so it is not like they are really that price. The mini is not subsidized. Though I wouldn't be at all surprised to someday see iPads sold in a subsidized manner by the carriers if the customer signs a 2 year data contract. I just wonder what the subsidy might be in that case ...
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Post by artman1033 on Nov 9, 2012 13:11:32 GMT -8
With all due respect people who want an iPad mini AND consider the retina display as a make or break factor are in the minority. It's the package as a whole including the experience/ecosystem. Reminds me of a AV salesman talking about Total Harmonic Distortion of one amp vs another. I told him that would be relevant if I had the hearing of a Bat. I COMPLETELY AGREE! I was at the Uptown Apple store on Tuesday. (16 employees, 12 customers at Noon, for those who are counting). I did a side by side comparison of the NEW iPad (4?) with the retina display and an iPad Mini. Comparing the same photo on each device: There was no discernible difference. You COULD notice the difference when you "pinched to zoom" the photo. How often do you do that?
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Post by ibuyer on Nov 9, 2012 13:12:00 GMT -8
No retina on next year's iPad Mini will be an epic failure. This year it's disappointing but understandable; next year will be hugely disappointing and unacceptable. 12 months is a long time - costs will be cut on improved yields, and maintaining the same form factor. This should be able to offset the cost of a retina screen, which will also be cheaper 12 months from now than it is today. I say the above as both an investor and a consumer. I see iPad Mini with Retina as more likely two years out, and as an investor I'm happy with that. I'd like to see a similar progression as the iPad 1 to iPad 2, with spec upgrades but no Retina. Retina just came to iPad in 2012, so if Retina comes to the Mini in 2014, that's fine by me. As a consumer, I wanted an iPad Mini from the get go, back in April 2010, because the original iPad and iPad 2 displays were compromised, IMO. The iPhone pixel density was good, however, so it was easy to imagine an iPad Mini at the same pixel density. The iPad needed better pixel density, and the iPad with Retina was one solution. And now we have two solutions to that problem--the iPad with Retina and the Mini. Mini with Retina is going to be nice to have when Apple gets around to it, but not a huge deal, IMO. Retina iPad Mini will be ready by the summer for sure. When they roll it out and what price they can charge depends on customers and competition. My WAG is that the 329 "premium" pricing has the retina iPad mini in the road map. Say a year from now, iPad mini goes for 299 and 329 - 349 for the retina iPad Mini.
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Post by Apple II+ on Nov 9, 2012 13:12:57 GMT -8
2048x1536 is exactly what he was talking about--in the iPad mini that would be the same PPI as the iPhone 4. Not exactly the same, it would be closer to the PPI of the iPhone 5. 2048x1536 at 7.9" is 324 ppi (future iPad mini ... maybe) 960x640 at 3.5" is 329 ppi (iPhone 4) 1136x640 at 4" is 325 ppi (iPhone 5) I'm pretty sure that the published diagonal screen dimensions are only approximate, but that the pixel densities are actually all 326 ppi. If the iPad Mini with Retina is not also 326, I'll eat my shoe.
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Post by The Big Toe on Nov 9, 2012 13:14:54 GMT -8
That would just about wipe out most of the profit. The 4 and 4s are still sold at higher price than $0 and $99. The carrier subsidy is still being paid to Apple for those phones, so it is not like they are really that price. The mini is not subsidized. Though I wouldn't be at all surprised to someday see iPads sold in a subsidized manner by the carriers if the customer signs a 2 year data contract. I just wonder what the subsidy might be in that case ... There is no carrier on the WIFI only ipads, so there is no one to subsidize the price... unless you want to go the Amazon route of having adds on the lock screen (ugh).
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Post by Red Shirted Ensign on Nov 9, 2012 13:20:10 GMT -8
Gosh, I forgot how nice it was to follow a discussion on the board here that did not end in one of the following phrases: "Make it stop" "When will it stop" "How low can it go" "I'm losing my lunch" Now, back to retina display vs. anything else.
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,552
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Post by mark on Nov 9, 2012 13:22:58 GMT -8
Not exactly the same, it would be closer to the PPI of the iPhone 5. 2048x1536 at 7.9" is 324 ppi (future iPad mini ... maybe) 960x640 at 3.5" is 329 ppi (iPhone 4) 1136x640 at 4" is 325 ppi (iPhone 5) I'm pretty sure that the published diagonal screen dimensions are only approximate, but that the pixel densities are actually all 326 ppi. If the iPad Mini with Retina is not also 326, I'll eat my shoe. I agree. These PPIs are all so close that there is no practical difference, especially since 7.9 inch might be 7.91 inch.
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,552
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Post by mark on Nov 9, 2012 13:23:55 GMT -8
Though I wouldn't be at all surprised to someday see iPads sold in a subsidized manner by the carriers if the customer signs a 2 year data contract. I just wonder what the subsidy might be in that case ... There is no carrier on the WIFI only ipads, so there is no one to subsidize the price... unless you want to go the Amazon route of having adds on the lock screen (ugh). LOL. Obviously I'm referring to the LTE iPad's! I should have been clearer.
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Post by bryanyc on Nov 9, 2012 13:27:14 GMT -8
With all due respect people who want an iPad mini AND consider the retina display as a make or break factor are in the minority. It's the package as a whole including the experience/ecosystem. Reminds me of a AV salesman talking about Total Harmonic Distortion of one amp vs another. I told him that would be relevant if I had the hearing of a Bat. I COMPLETELY AGREE! I was at the Uptown Apple store on Tuesday. (16 employees, 12 customers at Noon, for those who are counting). I did a side by side comparison of the NEW iPad (4?) with the retina display and an iPad Mini. Comparing the same photo on each device: There was no discernible difference. You COULD notice the difference when you "pinched to zoom" the photo. How often do you do that? As a proud owner of a 15" Retina Macbook Pro I must differ. Besides the fact that text is significantly and eerily crisper, photographs look much better as well. I can perhaps best describe it as smoother and with greater tonal richness that comes from more information for the given tone / color. So, text is obvious to all, images, it takes a bit more to get the difference, BUT it is a definite improvement, especially for someone who works with images. That said, I am still toting my 3GS and use it all the time. I am sort of attached to its rounded form and will miss it when I get the more planar iPhone 5, but will love that new screen, camera etc etc.!
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Post by rob_london on Nov 9, 2012 13:42:23 GMT -8
Apparently the last time AAPL had seven consecutive down weeks was in the year 2000.
Anyone know whether AAPL has suffered eight consecutive down weeks since its IPO?
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Post by frqntflr on Nov 9, 2012 13:44:44 GMT -8
just to clarify the iPad discussion with display resolutions and ppi ... i sense a bit of confusion and some inaccurate info
iPad1 - 1024 X 768 - 132 ppi iPad2 - 1024 X 768 - 132 ppi iPad3 - 2048 X 1536 - 264 ppi iPad4 - 2048 X 1536 - 264 ppi
iPadMini 1024 X 768 - 163 ppi
above info from Apple's tech specs
an iPad mini with Retina display would most likely have same resolution as iPad3/4 ... this would NOT introduce a third resolution ... devs would employ same programs as for iPad3/4 ... the ppi on a Retina iPad mini would be yet another ppi higher than 264 (too lazy to do math right now) ... only question is whether it's feasible for next gen mini ... i like the idea of keeping the low-res mini around at lower price, say $249 - $269 ... this would enable Apple to use same marketing approach as larger iPads ... kinda like that idea
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Post by jdubuc on Nov 9, 2012 13:50:54 GMT -8
just to clarify the iPad discussion with display resolutions and ppi ... i sense a bit of confusion and some inaccurate info iPad1 - 1024 X 768 - 132 ppi iPad2 - 1024 X 768 - 132 ppi iPad3 - 2048 X 1536 - 264 ppi iPad4 - 2048 X 1536 - 264 ppi iPadMini 1024 X 768 - 163 ppi above info from Apple's tech specs an iPad mini with Retina display would most likely have same resolution as iPad3/4 ... this would NOT introduce a third resolution ... devs would employ same programs as for iPad3/4 ... the ppi on a Retina iPad mini would be yet another ppi higher than 264 (too lazy to do math right now) ... only question is whether it's feasible for next gen mini ... i like the idea of keeping the low-res mini around at lower price, say $249 - $269 ... this would enable Apple to use same marketing approach as larger iPads ... kinda like that idea As Mav pointed out, the iPad Mini ppi is identical to the pre-retina iPhones. Doubling the resolution would use the exact same panels (but cut to 7.9" instead) as the retina iPhone displays (326 ppi). Agree completely on the pricing strategy by the way -- I've long thought there is an opportunity to upsell customers not just on larger storage capacities, but on premium displays and other components.
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Post by rob_london on Nov 9, 2012 13:55:24 GMT -8
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Post by Xphilos on Nov 9, 2012 14:04:46 GMT -8
Apparently the last time AAPL had seven consecutive down weeks was in the year 2000. Anyone know whether AAPL has suffered eight consecutive down weeks since its IPO? Seven consecutive red weeks in 2008. I can't find eight consecutive red weeks in the last 10 years. If next week is red, it will be unprecedented. Impossible to precedent. Unprecedented.
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Post by rickag on Nov 9, 2012 14:16:55 GMT -8
… I told him that would be relevant if I had the hearing of a Bat. LOL I needed a good laugh. Thank you.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,182
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Post by JDSoCal on Nov 9, 2012 14:17:52 GMT -8
Looks like weekly options saved AAPL a trip back to the depths. Yep. Stk Calls Puts 530 681 5,677 535 938 5,593 540 3,869 7,858 545 4,308 5,246 550 8,411 6,449 555 8,581 6,073 560 8,952 6,611
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Nov 9, 2012 14:25:05 GMT -8
Pfft, so it's anything goes on Monday.
Woohoo.
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Post by lance on Nov 9, 2012 14:37:43 GMT -8
Cheers to blowing Cramer's 530 sell call out of the water next week with a decisive up move next week!!..... hopefully
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Post by tuffett on Nov 9, 2012 14:55:51 GMT -8
I think Apple can maintain the same margins with a retina model next year. For those that don't care, the original iPad Mini can be sold for $249 and wipe away the competition at the lower end, similar to what we're seeing with the $0 iPhone 4 / $99 iPhone 4S right now. I'm not sure why you say this. Even if Apple sells the mini at $249 next year, the competition may be selling their at $149 or even $99. Remember, Amazon isn't required to earn a profit on their sales like Apple is! And Google sells advertising, not products, so they can have zero margin if they so choose. I say it because it will be cheap for an Apple device. It doesn't have to be the cheapest option to take away share from the low end. Just like old iPhones aren't the cheapest option (iPhone phone plans are often more costly than competitors'). A $249 Mini will take a good chunk out of the lower end tablet sales, and it will be done at a profit.
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Post by lovemyipad on Nov 9, 2012 15:20:50 GMT -8
Can anyone with more technical aptitude than I give a guess as to where we might see resistance on the upside, if indeed we're going that way? Back-of-the-napkin support and resistance levels: just count off by 5s. 550, 555, 560, etc.
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