bud777
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Post by bud777 on Jun 3, 2017 14:17:19 GMT -8
I tried the link for 40,000 people dying in Germany and it says I wasn't authorized to view it.
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Post by davidstevenson on Jun 3, 2017 15:20:08 GMT -8
You are not a true believer.
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JDSoCal
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Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,186
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Post by JDSoCal on Jun 3, 2017 15:54:48 GMT -8
Link fixed. The Telegraph ain't exactly Fox News.
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JDSoCal
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Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,186
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Post by JDSoCal on Jun 3, 2017 16:02:23 GMT -8
Yes, the Paris accord is not "fair" in the sense that some nations need to act faster and spend more money than others. What the people who complain about this either conveniently ignore or don't understand is that these nations are the major prior contributors to the problems that we are facing today and are going to face going forward. China and India are still growing towards having the bulk of their population middle class. It's also not "fair" to handcuff the growth of 2nd and 3rd world nations. A human life is a human life no matter where they were born or what country they live in. As global citizens we should aspire to improve the standard of living for everyone, and this might mean a few sacrifices from those who are already extremely fortunate. China is an interesting one. They are facing a massive pollution problem, but in the past who has been the primary consumer of all the products they make? The "America first at the expense of everyone else" mentality is so narrow minded. All countries have their best interests in mind, but most manage to also cooperate for the greater good. Break out your checkbook and pay my share. Not our fault the oldest civilization on earth decided to go with ass-backwards communism and is still behind the US that's only been around for ~230 yrs. Last thing I am going to do is apologize for the US being awesome or put our economy in neutral so China can catch up at our expense. No thank you. And if you really care about people and "a human life is a human life," then you'd want to lower the cost of heating energy, not triple it with stupid "green" energy mandates so poor people don't freeze to death. Or is that another redistributionist tax for me to pay too? Subsidizing the cost of energy that liberals have made more expensive? And we'll see if Europe has any balls to ruin the world economy over their climate religion. So far I have seen zero balls from Europe on anything. They'll all be under Sharia soon anyway.
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JDSoCal
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Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,186
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Post by JDSoCal on Jun 4, 2017 11:27:47 GMT -8
A stupid, insensitive comment, especially after today's events in London. Sometimes the truth hurts. I realize you aren't accustomed to free speech in England. And the UK is bringing this on itself with its ridiculous open borders policies. Anyone with a brain can see it. Personally I hate seeing a once strong and brave ally kneel before the god of political correctness. It's your Muslim mayor who gets on TV every time there's a jihadist attack and blathers on about how this has nothing to do with Islam, we must remain open, blah blah blah, carry on, this is just the new normal. Sadiq Khan actually said, there's "no reason to be alarmed!" and is blasting Trump right now instead of ISIS or Islamic terror. Unbelievable. It's suicide and I'm not going to be mealy mouthed about it. You know very well you have a Muslim problem in Europe. Two-thirds of British Muslims would not report a terror plot! You know very well that there are Sharia courts that have popped up in Islamic dominated areas in the UK. You just can't say it or you can be prosecuted! Unbelievable. Hope I'm wrong and the UK turns its suicidal policies around and doesn't sink deeper into the abyss by voting in Labour next week. Meanwhile, God bless our republic and First Amendment.
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Post by rob_london on Jun 4, 2017 12:51:11 GMT -8
Khan actually said that Londoners should not be alarmed by an increased police presence on the streets of London. In the same statement he condemns the terrorists. www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40149117/london-attack-grief-and-anger-sadiq-khan"...and is blasting Trump right now" The Guardian: In response, a spokesman for Sadiq Khan said the mayor had “more important things to do than respond to Donald Trump’s ill-informed tweet that deliberately takes out of context his remarks”.
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Post by sponge on Jun 4, 2017 19:51:21 GMT -8
Just returned from London last week. My 4th trip there Flew thru Manchester as well. After walking the very busy streets, I have concluded despite what appears to be increased security, London will sadly lose a few thousand folks from these radicals in the next few years. The horses have left the barn, and I don't think there is much they can do to stop them. The population are all sitting ducks. On one side there are Bentleys with drivers waiting for Muslim shoppers at Harrods, while a few miles away the slums are full of impoverished Muslims trying to follow their religion.
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Post by tuffett on Jun 4, 2017 20:43:05 GMT -8
A stupid, insensitive comment, especially after today's events in London. Sometimes the truth hurts. I realize you aren't accustomed to free speech in England. And the UK is bringing this on itself with its ridiculous open borders policies. Anyone with a brain can see it. Personally I hate seeing a once strong and brave ally kneel before the god of political correctness. It's your Muslim mayor who gets on TV every time there's a jihadist attack and blathers on about how this has nothing to do with Islam, we must remain open, blah blah blah, carry on, this is just the new normal. Sadiq Khan actually said, there's "no reason to be alarmed!" and is blasting Trump right now instead of ISIS or Islamic terror. Unbelievable. It's suicide and I'm not going to be mealy mouthed about it. You know very well you have a Muslim problem in Europe. Two-thirds of British Muslims would not report a terror plot! You know very well that there are Sharia courts that have popped up in Islamic dominated areas in the UK. You just can't say it or you can be prosecuted! Unbelievable. Hope I'm wrong and the UK turns its suicidal policies around and doesn't sink deeper into the abyss by voting in Labour next week. Meanwhile, God bless our republic and First Amendment. When (not if) something terrible happens again in the USA, I won't be so callous as to gleefully claim that Trump and America brought it upon themselves. But I'll certainly be thinking it. As for "green jobs" as I mentioned before, the solar industry employs more people than the coal and natural gas industries, and that gap is growing every day despite Trump's feeble attempts to bring back coal jobs which are long gone. Climate change deniers who don't have a scientific bone in their body amuse me to no end.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,186
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Post by JDSoCal on Jun 4, 2017 20:55:48 GMT -8
I am definitely NOT gleeful about terror attacks. I'm trying to make an important point. I'm disappointed; I expected you to really blast me. Kind of a half-hearted effort. And I'd gladly debate any climate "scientist" on their fraudulent junk science. In public. Where's the control earth, without AGW, BTW? And are you allowed to change the data to fit your hypothesis in the scientific method? LOL, astrology and phrenology are more scientific. Anyway, I hereby pledge not to continue this discussion into the Monday intraday.
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Post by audiosculpture12 on Jun 4, 2017 22:45:08 GMT -8
These comments about the uk are crass, and im shocked by what im reading. Not cool.
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macster
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Post by macster on Jun 5, 2017 5:24:00 GMT -8
When (not if) something terrible happens again in the USA, I won't be so callous as to gleefully claim that Trump and America brought it upon themselves. But I'll certainly be thinking it. As for "green jobs" as I mentioned before, the solar industry employs more people than the coal and natural gas industries, and that gap is growing every day despite Trump's feeble attempts to bring back coal jobs which are long gone. Climate change deniers who don't have a scientific bone in their body amuse me to no end. Your comments perplex me. If one speaks out about racism, racism increases. If one speaks out about crime, crime increases. If one speaks out about islamic terror. islamic terror increases. hmm As for green jobs, if the solar industry has been taking off and employs more workers than oil, coal or gas, then why is there a war on coal that put them out of business through regulation? hmm Competition is a capitalist meme, its working, why throw them under the bus into more poverty as if WV already has economic issues. Competition is working in China and India. Why have a Paris accord then? Its not needed. Green is good. Hmm, I never heard conservatives speak, rally or campaign against green initiatives, and neither has President Trump. As a matter of fact the great oil state of Texas has led the nation in green energies and will soon be 100% green. Why is this even a issue for libs to rally about? This perplexes me insane. I hear many a climate fanatic use Greenland as a example of global warming and at the same time consider Greenlands Ice melting as a local phenomenon. Here is a example of Greenlands ice core sample graphic.....
Edit: Mankind didn't know, when they settled near the coastlands and built their big cities, that the earth has its own say of where the water rises and recedes. And so here we are mere mortals trying to push the water back. LOL
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Post by tuffett on Jun 5, 2017 8:41:14 GMT -8
If you don't think humans can affect such change I don't know what to say. We've helped to make countless species extinct, and exploited materials for great benefit (and harm), so I don't see why it's so hard to believe that all our combustion activities have led to a rise in global temperatures, especially when all recent science supports it. That's not to say the earth doesn't have its natural cycles as well. Nobody denies that.
Whatever the cause was, it's apparent that we're in trouble if things continue on the current course, and we should do all we can to stop it. It's just common sense.
Re coal: it's dying a very rapid death, no matter what Trump does. In a way you're right that pulling out won't do much because the rest of the world and even most major businesses within the US are on the right side. But it's a poor message to send, and one that will taint America's reputation for a long, long time.
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Post by tuffett on Jun 5, 2017 8:53:19 GMT -8
Five people shot down in Orlando, but the perpetrator has no links to terrorist organizations, so no problem here. We must only stop radical Islamic terrorism - other lives lost don't matter. Am I doing this right?
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Post by rickag on Jun 5, 2017 14:57:48 GMT -8
Five people shot down in Orlando, but the perpetrator has no links to terrorist organizations, so no problem here. We must only stop radical Islamic terrorism - other lives lost don't matter. Am I doing this right? False argument. I understand he was a veteran, maybe preventable by providing better care for veterans. Preventing terrorist attacks a completely separate argument.
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Post by tuffett on Jun 5, 2017 16:40:40 GMT -8
Five people shot down in Orlando, but the perpetrator has no links to terrorist organizations, so no problem here. We must only stop radical Islamic terrorism - other lives lost don't matter. Am I doing this right? False argument. I understand he was a veteran, maybe preventable by providing better care for veterans. Preventing terrorist attacks a completely separate argument. That's kind of my point. 7 dead from a terrorist attack. 5 dead from a non-terrorist attack. The former is getting an order of magnitude more news coverage than the latter, even in the USA where the attack didn't occur. Why? It's exactly what the terrorists want.
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Post by rickag on Jun 5, 2017 17:02:56 GMT -8
False argument. I understand he was a veteran, maybe preventable by providing better care for veterans. Preventing terrorist attacks a completely separate argument. That's kind of my point. 7 dead from a terrorist attack. 5 dead from a non-terrorist attack. The former is getting an order of magnitude more news coverage than the latter, even in the USA where the attack didn't occur. Why? It's exactly what the terrorists want. I somehow feel that was not your point, but rather a temporary ban on travel from nations that promote terror is wrong. It appears you are deflecting this to the unfortunate killings in Orlando. And yes the plight of veterans was major news, and is hopefully being addressed.
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Post by tuffett on Jun 5, 2017 17:07:24 GMT -8
That's kind of my point. 7 dead from a terrorist attack. 5 dead from a non-terrorist attack. The former is getting an order of magnitude more news coverage than the latter, even in the USA where the attack didn't occur. Why? It's exactly what the terrorists want. I somehow feel that was not your point, but rather a temporary ban on travel from nations that promote terror is wrong. It appears you are deflecting this to the unfortunate killings in Orlando. And yes the plight of veterans was major news, and is hopefully being addressed. What is a temporary ban going to do? All these attackers have lived in the host nation for years, or even born there. Trump has had more than the 90 days he asked for in his original executive order - what has he done besides whine like a bitch?
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,555
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Post by mark on Jun 5, 2017 19:10:17 GMT -8
If you don't think humans can affect such change I don't know what to say. We've helped to make countless species extinctAll more advanced species do this to less advanced species. Throughout history. In fact, 99.9999% of all species that have ever existed are now extinct. And 99.999% of them went extinct before humans even existed! It's simply the way nature works.
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Post by tuffett on Jun 5, 2017 21:59:50 GMT -8
If you don't think humans can affect such change I don't know what to say. We've helped to make countless species extinctAll more advanced species do this to less advanced species. Throughout history. In fact, 99.9999% of all species that have ever existed are now extinct. And 99.999% of them went extinct before humans even existed! It's simply the way nature works. You'll have to define advanced. Cockroaches will almost certainly outlast humans.
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mark
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Post by mark on Jun 6, 2017 5:27:46 GMT -8
All more advanced species do this to less advanced species. Throughout history. In fact, 99.9999% of all species that have ever existed are now extinct. And 99.999% of them went extinct before humans even existed! It's simply the way nature works. You'll have to define advanced. Cockroaches will almost certainly outlast humans. The phrase was "more advanced" as in higher on the food chain (or any other chain related to survival over another species survival).
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Ted
fire starter
Posts: 882
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Post by Ted on Jun 6, 2017 5:40:28 GMT -8
If you don't think humans can affect such change I don't know what to say. We've helped to make countless species extinctAll more advanced species do this to less advanced species. Throughout history. In fact, 99.9999% of all species that have ever existed are now extinct. And 99.999% of them went extinct before humans even existed! It's simply the way nature works. But Mark, are you rationalizing mankind's effect on nature? We are the only species with self-awareness which puts us in a very different league altogether.... What man has done to the planet is not like anything before it because we know what we're doing and no longer have a true need to kill everything around us....
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Post by tuffett on Jun 6, 2017 7:35:56 GMT -8
All more advanced species do this to less advanced species. Throughout history. In fact, 99.9999% of all species that have ever existed are now extinct. And 99.999% of them went extinct before humans even existed! It's simply the way nature works. But Mark, are you rationalizing mankind's effect on nature? We are the only species with self-awareness which puts us in a very different league altogether.... What man has done to the planet is not like anything before it because we know what we're doing and no longer have a true need to kill everything around us.... It's amazing the lengths people will go to to justify their actions. Violence is part of human nature, so let's just all go on homicidal benders with no consequences!
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,555
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Post by mark on Jun 6, 2017 10:38:52 GMT -8
All more advanced species do this to less advanced species. Throughout history. In fact, 99.9999% of all species that have ever existed are now extinct. And 99.999% of them went extinct before humans even existed! It's simply the way nature works. But Mark, are you rationalizing mankind's effect on nature? We are the only species with self-awareness which puts us in a very different league altogether.... What man has done to the planet is not like anything before it because we know what we're doing and no longer have a true need to kill everything around us.... 1. Which part of what I wrote did you take as "rationalizing"? It was a simple statement of fact(s). 2a. You cannot prove that humans are self-aware (heck, I'm not even sure we can define "self-aware"!) 2b. You cannot prove that any species other than humans that has ever existed was not self-aware (under any definition you choose). 3. Humans even kill humans, so why would it be at all surprising that humans would kill other things? 4. Species that evolve in a way that their habitat becomes inhospitable to their species either evolve or go extinct. Also a general rule of evolution. And humans are a species. But Mark, are you rationalizing mankind's effect on nature? We are the only species with self-awareness which puts us in a very different league altogether.... What man has done to the planet is not like anything before it because we know what we're doing and no longer have a true need to kill everything around us.... It's amazing the lengths people will go to to justify their actions. Violence is part of human nature, so let's just all go on homicidal benders with no consequences! What action of mine are you claiming I am justifying?
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Post by incorrigible on Jun 6, 2017 10:57:29 GMT -8
OMG WILL YOU FOLKS LET THIS DIE???!!!! TAKE IT TO THE DUNGEON.
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Ted
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Posts: 882
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Post by Ted on Jun 6, 2017 11:52:49 GMT -8
OMG WILL YOU FOLKS LET THIS DIE???!!!! TAKE IT TO THE DUNGEON. OMG, incorrigible! We're discussing something in last Friday's daily thread. I don't think that's harming anyone, and you certainly don't have to read it...
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Ted
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Posts: 882
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Post by Ted on Jun 6, 2017 12:07:56 GMT -8
But Mark, are you rationalizing mankind's effect on nature? We are the only species with self-awareness which puts us in a very different league altogether.... What man has done to the planet is not like anything before it because we know what we're doing and no longer have a true need to kill everything around us.... 1. Which part of what I wrote did you take as "rationalizing"? It was a simple statement of fact(s). 2a. You cannot prove that humans are self-aware (heck, I'm not even sure we can define "self-aware"!) 2b. You cannot prove that any species other than humans that has ever existed was not self-aware (under any definition you choose). 3. Humans even kill humans, so why would it be at all surprising that humans would kill other things? 4. Species that evolve in a way that their habitat becomes inhospitable to their species either evolve or go extinct. Also a general rule of evolution. And humans are a species. It's amazing the lengths people will go to to justify their actions. Violence is part of human nature, so let's just all go on homicidal benders with no consequences! What action of mine are you claiming I am justifying? It's true you just stated facts, but it was in the context that tuffet had set up with "If you don't think humans can affect such change I don't know what to say. We've helped to make countless species extinct." Your response then implied - within that context - that man is simply doing what has always happened with advanced species, which would seem to give humankind a pass on our needless and conscious destruction of entire ecosystems. 2a. I think therefore I am. Language distinguishes us from most other species. Dolphins and whales may have secret lives we're unaware of, I suppose. 2b. Um, true. 3. This isn't about surprise. Man is an animal, true, but that doesn't mean he has to act like a senseless beast. 4. This is surely true, but it's not addressing the issue: people have no evolutionary need to wreck the environment. We should be able to rise above our base needs and desires, cooperate, self-regulate, conserve resources, plan for the long term. That's all I'm saying, and all tuffet was getting at, I think...
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