chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,426
|
Post by chinacat on Nov 11, 2017 8:21:40 GMT -8
What started as a very strong week got derailed a by the Tax Follies in Washington, but a new ATH is always welcome. Not only have all of the doubts about demand for the iPhone X been smashed, but it does look like the delay pushing the debut further into the holiday seasons in both hemispheres could very well be a blessing in disguise. Meanwhile, Apple Has Several Big Strengths It Can Leverage In the Augmented Reality Wars lays out how Apple has in typical fashion taken a patient approach to building a strong foundation for the development of AR capabilities and products. They may stumble once in a while, but it is clear that they remain driven more by their own standards than perceived market deadlines. iPhone X, iPhone 8 Plus production accelerating alongside cutback in orders for iPhone 8 should finally put to rest the "too expensive" concerns generated by the iPhone X. Apple fans have always been willing to pay for what makes Apple products special, and this should be reflected in ASP, revenue and profit numbers for the next few quarters.
|
|
|
Post by rezonate on Nov 11, 2017 10:05:52 GMT -8
I once again repeat myself with a plea to the Apple gods for HomePod, iMac Pro, wireless charging mats, and any number of other products in the "release: soon" vaporware bucket. Not everybody is obsessed about or needs a new iPhone.
|
|
|
Post by sponge on Nov 11, 2017 11:04:42 GMT -8
I think vaporware only applies to products that never see the light of day.
The announcement for the charging mat and HomePod was done to suppress sales of competing products.
After readying many of the X reviews, I am very comfortable with my decision to get the 8.
I don't like the new finger gestures I need to learn and it appear the Face ID is still slightly slower then finger print.
Lets hope Apple introduces a faster and smaller form factor X. I suspect I may have wait 2 years however.
|
|
|
Post by hledgard on Nov 11, 2017 12:59:50 GMT -8
Saw the iPhone X. Amazing, love the smaller size.
Critical question.
I note that the width of the X is narrower than the 7 Plus. So is the area of the actual screen almost the same, and is Apple relying on the the tallness of the screen to claim the screen(the diagonal) is bigger, sort of a gimmick.
When I saw the two phones, I would say the screens are the SAME size, but the iPhone X itself is smaller.
True???
|
|
|
Post by galleybob on Nov 11, 2017 13:20:18 GMT -8
I once again repeat myself with a plea to the Apple gods for HomePod, iMac Pro, wireless charging mats, and any number of other products in the "release: soon" vaporware bucket. Not everybody is obsessed about or needs a new iPhone. I would buy two HomePods, and charging mat. I recently bought2 sets of Airpods and will probably be buying an Apple Watch with data. I and my two children have iPhone 7's on upgrade but we will not be getting new phones. My wife has 6 Plus and she is happy with it.
|
|
|
Post by deasys on Nov 11, 2017 14:05:13 GMT -8
Saw the iPhone X. Amazing, love the smaller size. Critical question. I note that the width of the X is narrower than the 7 Plus. So is the area of the actual screen almost the same, and is Apple relying on the the tallness of the screen to claim the screen(the diagonal) is bigger, sort of a gimmick. When I saw the two phones, I would say the screens are the SAME size, but the iPhone X itself is smaller. True??? Well, not quite (and not really a gimmick): iPhone X2436 x 1125 pixels 2,740,500 total pixels 458 pixels/inch 5.8" diagonal 5.27" x 2.43" display dimensions 12.8 sq. in.2:17:1 aspect ratio (similar to 70 mm film) iPhone 7 Plus1920 x 1080 pixels 2,073,600 total pixels 401 pixels/inch 5.5" diagonal 4.79" x 2.7" display dimensions 12.9 sq. in.1.78:1 aspect ratio ("Full HD")
|
|
|
Post by hledgard on Nov 11, 2017 14:37:39 GMT -8
Neat, thanks Deasys ! I looked for that info, and could not find it.
I believe and knew about the screen resolution.
But the display itself is NOT bigger, and Apple should not tout it!
|
|
mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,552
|
Post by mark on Nov 11, 2017 18:52:24 GMT -8
iPhone X2436 x 1125 pixels 2,740,500 total pixels 458 pixels/inch 5.8" diagonal 5.27" x 2.43" display dimensions 12.8 sq. in.2:17:1 aspect ratio (similar to 70 mm film) iPhone 7 Plus1920 x 1080 pixels 2,073,600 total pixels 401 pixels/inch 5.5" diagonal 4.79" x 2.7" display dimensions 12.9 sq. in.1.78:1 aspect ratio ("Full HD") Where did these dimensions come from? I can't find them anywhere online. Since the X is 2.79 inches wide, if the display is 2.43 inches wide, then the side bezels total 0.36 inches, or 0.18 inches on each side. Is that correct? It seems as if those bezels are smaller than that. But it's probably correct because 5.27" x 2.43" does indeed result in a 5.8" diagonal.
|
|
|
Post by Luckychoices on Nov 11, 2017 22:12:29 GMT -8
Saw the iPhone X. Amazing, love the smaller size. Critical question. I note that the width of the X is narrower than the 7 Plus. So is the area of the actual screen almost the same, and is Apple relying on the the tallness of the screen to claim the screen(the diagonal) is bigger, sort of a gimmick If a phone's screen size is commonly identified by the diagonal dimension of the screen, then a phone with a 5.8" diagonal screen *is* larger than a phone with a 5.5" diagonal screen. How would that be a gimmick?
|
|
|
Post by deasys on Nov 11, 2017 22:44:27 GMT -8
iPhone X2436 x 1125 pixels 2,740,500 total pixels 458 pixels/inch 5.8" diagonal 5.27" x 2.43" display dimensions 12.8 sq. in.2:17:1 aspect ratio (similar to 70 mm film) iPhone 7 Plus1920 x 1080 pixels 2,073,600 total pixels 401 pixels/inch 5.5" diagonal 4.79" x 2.7" display dimensions 12.9 sq. in.1.78:1 aspect ratio ("Full HD") Where did these dimensions come from? I can't find them anywhere online. Since the X is 2.79 inches wide, if the display is 2.43 inches wide, then the side bezels total 0.36 inches, or 0.18 inches on each side. Is that correct? It seems as if those bezels are smaller than that. But it's probably correct because 5.27" x 2.43" does indeed result in a 5.8" diagonal. Everything above the colored text is from Apple's specification pages for the devices. The rest is calculated and may thus be somewhat inaccurate. I used this web site: www.sven.de/dpi/
|
|
|
Post by hledgard on Nov 12, 2017 7:11:30 GMT -8
Saw the iPhone X. Amazing, love the smaller size. Critical question. I note that the width of the X is narrower than the 7 Plus. So is the area of the actual screen almost the same, and is Apple relying on the the tallness of the screen to claim the screen(the diagonal) is bigger, sort of a gimmick If a phone's screen size is commonly identified by the diagonal dimension of the screen, then a phone with a 5.8" diagonal screen *is* larger than a phone with a 5.5" diagonal screen. How would that be a gimmick? Because the area is the same. That is how people react. Saying 5.5 goes to 5.8 implicitly implies the same ratio, thus a considerably larger area. When I went to see the X, I immediately wondered if something was wrong. From all the hype, I was expecting a larger screen, and was put off. Then I thought the size of the display was a bit odd. Then I figured out it was not wide enough.
|
|
|
Post by Luckychoices on Nov 12, 2017 8:33:55 GMT -8
If a phone's screen size is commonly identified by the diagonal dimension of the screen, then a phone with a 5.8" diagonal screen *is* larger than a phone with a 5.5" diagonal screen. How would that be a gimmick? Because the area is the same. That is how people react. Saying 5.5 goes to 5.8 implicitly implies the same ratio, thus a considerably larger area. No. It doesn't implicitly imply anything of the sort. In fact this image from the Apple site shows the relative size of all three iPhones and it's obvious, at least to me, that the iPhone X is narrower than the 5.5" iPhone. When I went to see the X, I immediately wondered if something was wrong. From all the hype, I was expecting a larger screen, and was put off. Then I thought the size of the display was a bit odd. Then I figured out it was not wide enough. "Then I figured out it was *just* wide enough". FIFY
|
|
|
Post by sponge on Nov 12, 2017 10:00:20 GMT -8
I played with the X for 30 min at the Apple Store last night.
I was pleasantly surprised to see that is not much bigger then the 8.
I love the screen. It makes anything else look very outdated. This is the future and I can see how they can build upon it like they did with the first iPhone.
Overall I still think the 8 feels more solid and is easier to hold. The Face ID takes 1.5 seconds to activate. It is slower then the Touch ID. I think it will be faster as they improve the processors.
I am not so sure that people will buy them more then the 8. More people were looking at the 8 then the X table. Price is still a big issue in my book. $250 more then 8+ is a bit much. Lets see what Apple does in the next two years.
There were a bunch of teenagers playing with the phones. They had Androids, so Apple is chugging along by attracting switchers.
|
|
|
Post by tuffett on Nov 12, 2017 10:03:13 GMT -8
Saw the iPhone X. Amazing, love the smaller size. Critical question. I note that the width of the X is narrower than the 7 Plus. So is the area of the actual screen almost the same, and is Apple relying on the the tallness of the screen to claim the screen(the diagonal) is bigger, sort of a gimmick If a phone's screen size is commonly identified by the diagonal dimension of the screen, then a phone with a 5.8" diagonal screen *is* larger than a phone with a 5.5" diagonal screen. How would that be a gimmick? It is a bit of a gimmick. Extend the principle further - have a 10” diagonal screen but 1” wide. Is that a bigger, better screen size? Yes, conventionally screens have been measured diagonally because they all followed either 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratios. Now there are all sorts of different ratios being used, so a diagonal measurement doesn’t provide enough information. The convention should really start shifting to screen area. I’m not saying this is a huge deal regarding the X - but it is a bit of a stretch to claim it has a bigger screen than the 8 Plus.
|
|
|
Post by Luckychoices on Nov 12, 2017 14:42:22 GMT -8
If a phone's screen size is commonly identified by the diagonal dimension of the screen, then a phone with a 5.8" diagonal screen *is* larger than a phone with a 5.5" diagonal screen. How would that be a gimmick? It is a bit of a gimmick. Extend the principle further - have a 10” diagonal screen but 1” wide. Is that a bigger, better screen size?Well, if you and hledgard feel that it’s a gimmick, that’s your prerogative, of course, but *extend* the principle? What principle would that be? The straw man principle? If you have a 10” diagonal screen that’s 1” wide, the screen would be about 1" X 9.9498” = 9.9 square inches. Since deasys has already given the dimensions of the iPhone 7 Plus as 12.9 sq. in., then no, the iPhone X screen would be *smaller* by about 2.95 sq inches. Also, I realize it’s your straw man, but how did *better* get into the conversation when we were talking about screen *size*? Yes, conventionally screens have been measured diagonally because they all followed either 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratios. Now there are all sorts of different ratios being used, so a diagonal measurement doesn’t provide enough information. The convention should really start shifting to screen area. Actually, I think the convention does pretty well the way it is. If I know the diagonal dimensions of two different phones and I’ve at least seen a comparative photo of them both, I feel pretty confident I can choose the one that’s best for me since the final check will be that it *must* fit into my right front Levi pocket. And I’ve *never* bought an iPhone in consideration of its aspect ratio. I’m not saying this is a huge deal regarding the X - but it is a bit of a stretch to claim it has a bigger screen than the 8 Plus. I thought I was pretty decent when it comes to online searches but I’m unable to find a link to where Apple claims the iPhone X has a *larger* screen than the Plus-sized iPhones. I’m not saying it didn’t happen, I’m just asking for help to locate a link to that claim.
|
|
|
Post by incorrigible on Nov 12, 2017 16:13:10 GMT -8
When doing the diagonal measurement, the notch does not seem to be taken fully into account in the screen area reduction.
|
|
|
Post by phoebear611 on Nov 12, 2017 16:20:16 GMT -8
Sorry about this long post but kindly indulge me: So I had complained about the recent upgrade on my phone and then since84 posted an article on ways to trouble-shoot the various issues. I thought all was fine but unfortunately no - it was still operating very, very slowly. (Meanwhile my son had the "i" issue when typing and my daughter had the issue that if you texted her too rapidly it froze her phone ... this family was in chaos .. and furious with the update). So I called 1-800-My Apple and the woman on the phone walked me through a few steps - basically I backed up my phone - then she had me remove the update and reinstall it. I thought all would be fine until I a day later when I went into my music and found that none had downloaded back onto my phone. (And I lost my playlists - ugh - don't ask!) Every single song of the thousands that I have had a symbol of a cloud with a down arrow next to it. I attempted to Google the issue and also got on the forums over at Apple Support but nothing was working. My question to them was that there HAD to be a way for all the music to download back onto my phone from the cloud without me sitting there for hours and clicking each song - and I wanted to know what that way was. So I called 1-800-MY APPLE again - explained what had been done and what had happened as a result of it. The woman on the phone was absolutely clueless and next to her I was hearing another woman telling her what to say - it was so distracting and leaving me with zero comfort that they knew what they were doing. In the end her response was that I could only download 250 songs on my phone and that it was all iPhones could hold - my last purchased songs could be put onto my iPhone and that was it. I thought my head was going to explode. Who was this raving idiot and the jerk whispering in her ear that didn't know WTF they were saying???!!! By now I was FURIOUS and insisted on speaking to a senior person and she pushed back - she didn't want to put me on with anyone senior and suddenly .....dial tone .... she hung up! I was LIVID! So I called back and got it elevated to someone who at least seemed to understand and said that he was perplexed given that I had done everything right but he didn't know why this was happening or what I could do to download these songs all at once. He said he was elevating it to his senior engineers and that they or he would call me back within 24 hours. It has been a week and nothing. No call, no email with a survey (they probably have an open ticket still). I sat there and clicked on every frigging album in order to download chunks of songs at a time. Playlists have still not reappeared. It is irrelevant what I had to do BUT - what's important is that their "jewel" - the diamond that IS Apple's Customer Service - was absolutely abhorrent and I was so shocked and disappointed that this had happened to me .... until I looked at my emails and saw this from PED: Apple Genius bars can't keep up: "The customer service model is about ready to pop." It pretty much discusses a Business Insider article suggesting that the customer service model is about to burst because too many people have the iPhone and the amount of customer service folks they have helping is completely disproportionate now. Here is a little bit of it: From Business Insider's Apple's 'geniuses' are straining under the iPhone's success, but revamped stores could ease the pressure: According to numerous blue-shirted "geniuses" that Business Insider spoke to, a rising tide of store visitors and on-the-job performance expectations have pushed the system to the breaking point.
"The customer service model is about ready to pop," says one Apple "genius" who has worked at the company for seven years and requested anonymity because employees are not permitted to talk to the press. "That is the issue and the employees are feeling it," the person says.
Apple now has over 85 million iPhone users in the United States, according to a recent estimate. That means more Apple users per store than ever before, and more people walking through the doors with everything from cracked phone screens to problems logging into iTunes.
Retail employees notice that the stores are packed. One says that his store can't keep up. "We haven’t been able to keep up with traffic since I started 8 years ago," a senior Genius at a small store in the Midwest that has yet to be redesigned told Business Insider.I experienced this first-hand and in another way but I'm assuming it will only get worse. Apple really needs to think about how they are going to address this. The knowledge of the people who answer the phone at My Apple these days has sadly deteriorated significantly. They MUST figure this out. It's on the phone - it's at the stores - and it's what differentiated them in many ways.
|
|
|
Post by gtrplyr on Nov 12, 2017 17:14:57 GMT -8
Phoebear , sorry to hear about that ... I too have experienced less than fantastic service from Apple in the past. I sure hope Tim takes situations like this seriously ... Apple has enough money to make sure there are plenty of trained support staff on hand to take care of it's customers and that should be a priority.
|
|
|
Post by tuffett on Nov 12, 2017 18:54:37 GMT -8
It is a bit of a gimmick. Extend the principle further - have a 10” diagonal screen but 1” wide. Is that a bigger, better screen size?Well, if you and hledgard feel that it’s a gimmick, that’s your prerogative, of course, but *extend* the principle? What principle would that be? The straw man principle? If you have a 10” diagonal screen that’s 1” wide, the screen would be about 1" X 9.9498” = 9.9 square inches. Since deasys has already given the dimensions of the iPhone 7 Plus as 12.9 sq. in., then no, the iPhone X screen would be *smaller* by about 2.95 sq inches. Also, I realize it’s your straw man, but how did *better* get into the conversation when we were talking about screen *size*? Yes, conventionally screens have been measured diagonally because they all followed either 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratios. Now there are all sorts of different ratios being used, so a diagonal measurement doesn’t provide enough information. The convention should really start shifting to screen area. Actually, I think the convention does pretty well the way it is. If I know the diagonal dimensions of two different phones and I’ve at least seen a comparative photo of them both, I feel pretty confident I can choose the one that’s best for me since the final check will be that it *must* fit into my right front Levi pocket. And I’ve *never* bought an iPhone in consideration of its aspect ratio. I’m not saying this is a huge deal regarding the X - but it is a bit of a stretch to claim it has a bigger screen than the 8 Plus. I thought I was pretty decent when it comes to online searches but I’m unable to find a link to where Apple claims the iPhone X has a *larger* screen than the Plus-sized iPhones. I’m not saying it didn’t happen, I’m just asking for help to locate a link to that claim. Uh, I was actually referencing your own quote: Since you asked, I was simply explaining how your statement that conventional diagonal screen measurement is all that matter could be turned into a gimmick. I don’t know if Apple has said it, but there are plenty of people touting the X as having the biggest ever screen on an iPhone and that simply isn’t true (assuming the numbers provided earlier are correct). Does it matter? Not to most, as the difference is marginal and the X has a much better screen to body ratio, but regardless of the outcome I prefer to stick to facts. Just as the 1” wide screen would be smaller as you correctly pointed out, the 5.8” iPhone has a smaller screen than the 5.5” Plus screens, by screen area. So which is it? When determining the size of a screen do you consider diagonal measurement, total screen area, or whatever makes Apple look better for the discussion in question? Calm down. All I did was provide you a (correct) answer to your question of how a bigger diagonal measurement could be a gimmick. No need to get upset. You don’t have to defend Apple each waking moment of your life. I love the iPhone X. The reason I “created a straw man” was to get you to understand the point, which you did. Now you’ve ended up contradicting yourself - read your posts again and see for yourself.
|
|
|
Post by Luckychoices on Nov 12, 2017 20:16:30 GMT -8
Calm down. All I did was provide you a (correct) answer to your question of how a bigger diagonal measurement could be a gimmick. No need to get upset. You don’t have to defend Apple each waking moment of your life. I love the iPhone X. The reason I “created a straw man” was to get you to understand the point, which you did. I'm as calm as could be and not upset in the slightest. Thanks for your concern. BTW, thanks also for taking the time to help me *understand* the point. Since the issue was so technical, it helped that you broke it down for me. /s This exchange began for me when hledgard wrote, "But the display itself is NOT bigger, and Apple should not tout it!" which means that he believed Apple is *touting* the iPhone X as having a larger display than the Plus iPhones. Unfortunately, that single, unsubstantiated statement was enough to encourage me to get involved in this completely pointless waste of time with you both about a nonissue. You love the iPhone X? Great! So do I! And as it happens, so does hledgard. He thinks it's *amazing* and he loves the smaller size.
|
|
|
Post by tuffett on Nov 12, 2017 21:01:28 GMT -8
Calm down. All I did was provide you a (correct) answer to your question of how a bigger diagonal measurement could be a gimmick. No need to get upset. You don’t have to defend Apple each waking moment of your life. I love the iPhone X. The reason I “created a straw man” was to get you to understand the point, which you did. I'm as calm as could be and not upset in the slightest. Thanks for your concern. BTW, thanks also for taking the time to help me *understand* the point. Since the issue was so technical, it helped that you broke it down for me. /s This exchange began for me when hledgard wrote, "But the display itself is NOT bigger, and Apple should not tout it!" which means that he believed Apple is *touting* the iPhone X as having a larger display than the Plus iPhones. Unfortunately, that single, unsubstantiated statement was enough to encourage me to get involved in this completely pointless waste of time with you both about a nonissue. You love the iPhone X? Great! So do I! And as it happens, so does hledgard. He thinks it's *amazing* and he loves the smaller size. You can be as sarcastic as you like - the fact is after I explained it you you promptly changed your stance. So perhaps it wasn’t to simple to you after all. Agree, this is pretty much a non-issue. Apple hasn’t called it the biggest screen (as far as I know) but a lot of others have, and it’s wrong.
|
|
|
Post by david on Nov 13, 2017 8:54:08 GMT -8
Calm down. ... No need to get upset. You don’t have to defend Apple each waking moment of your life. ... Isn’t it time for you to begin your annual winter FUD-storm? Calm down. No need to get upset.
|
|
|
Post by tuffett on Nov 13, 2017 9:20:10 GMT -8
Calm down. ... No need to get upset. You don’t have to defend Apple each waking moment of your life. ... Isn’t it time for you to begin your annual winter FUD-storm? Calm down. No need to get upset. Why would I be upset? I’ve made a killing this year on AAPL, AMZN and TSLA. If you aren’t ready for an Apple FUD-storm this time of year then you’re a shit investor. The fact that I post some potential issues doesn’t mean I believe they’re a big deal, but they could certainly cause an uproar and affect the stock, and I’m certainly ready for that possibility. Have a nice day.
|
|
|
Post by Luckychoices on Nov 13, 2017 18:08:03 GMT -8
I'm as calm as could be and not upset in the slightest. Thanks for your concern. BTW, thanks also for taking the time to help me *understand* the point. Since the issue was so technical, it helped that you broke it down for me. /s This exchange began for me when hledgard wrote, "But the display itself is NOT bigger, and Apple should not tout it!" which means that he believed Apple is *touting* the iPhone X as having a larger display than the Plus iPhones. Unfortunately, that single, unsubstantiated statement was enough to encourage me to get involved in this completely pointless waste of time with you both about a nonissue. You love the iPhone X? Great! So do I! And as it happens, so does hledgard. He thinks it's *amazing* and he loves the smaller size. You can be as sarcastic as you like - the fact is after I explained it you you promptly changed your stance. So perhaps it wasn’t to simple to you after all. After you *explained* it to me? Get over yourself, tuffet. Before you even entered the thread, I knew the following about the iPhone X: 1. *Larger* diagonal than the iPhone 7 Plus <= as advertised by Apple2. *Narrower* than the iPhone 7 Plus <= as obvious from the photo and the specs3. *Smaller* screen area than the iPhone 7 Plus <= as posted by deasys, early in the threadYou'll note that while responding to hledgard I wrote, " If a phone's screen size is commonly identified by the diagonal dimension of the screen, then a phone with a 5.8" diagonal screen *is* larger than a phone with a 5.5" diagonal screen". That's *if*, as in if you're talking about the diagonal dimension of the screen, 5.8>5.5. You're implying that until you explained it to me, I thought the iPhone X screen was larger in area, even though deasys had already posted the areas of both screens. Agree, this is pretty much a non-issue. Apple hasn’t called it the biggest screen (as far as I know) but a lot of others have, and it’s wrong. Oh, Apple *hasn’t* called it the biggest screen as far as you know? Well, what do you think this thread was dealing with anyway? My participation began when hledgard wrote, " But the display itself is NOT bigger, and Apple should not tout it!" This, after he wrote, " So is the area of the actual screen almost the same, and is Apple relying on the the tallness of the screen to claim the screen(the diagonal) is bigger, sort of a gimmick" Apple isn't *claiming* the diagonal is bigger...the *diagonal* of the iPhone X *is* bigger which is why I wrote what I did. As for the X having a larger screen area, Apple apparently makes no such claim. Or at the very least, hledgard hasn't responded with a link to where Apple makes that statement. Anyway, I've already wasted valuable minutes of my life responding to you, so this is the end of my participation in this particular thread.
|
|
|
Post by tuffett on Nov 13, 2017 20:44:15 GMT -8
If a phone's screen size is commonly identified by the diagonal dimension of the screen, then a phone with a 5.8" diagonal screen *is* larger than a phone with a 5.5" diagonal screen. How would that be a gimmick? If you have a 10” diagonal screen that’s 1” wide, the screen would be about 1" X 9.9498” = 9.9 square inches. Since deasys has already given the dimensions of the iPhone 7 Plus as 12.9 sq. in., then no, the iPhone X screen would be *smaller* by about 2.95 sq inches. Make up your mind, genius. Here's an example to demonstrate how ridiculous your first statement is: If a processor is commonly identified by its clock speed and number of cores, then the Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 *is* better than the Apple A11 Bionic. Understand now?
|
|