Since84
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To infinity and beyond!
Posts: 3,933
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Post by Since84 on Sept 20, 2018 2:25:43 GMT -8
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Post by CdnPhoto on Sept 20, 2018 2:33:21 GMT -8
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Since84
Moderator
To infinity and beyond!
Posts: 3,933
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Post by Since84 on Sept 20, 2018 5:38:41 GMT -8
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,621
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Post by 4aapl on Sept 20, 2018 6:23:49 GMT -8
One day earlier, and the target could have been in the green. What's interesting to me is "though he kept his market perform rating on the stock.". Does that mean that he expects the market to also be flat over the next 12 months? In other news, I hadn't heard about Rule 22 in Puerto Rico. 11 years ago, we moved from CA to NV, both to move to a less busy place and to not have to pay as much as 13.6% in state taxes, since NV has no state income tax. We're not the only ones, and a lot of the people that move here in the upper middle income class and above do so with one of their biggest reasons being taxes. But Puerto Rico apparently has this Rule 22, where you could pay 0% in Federal Income tax. www.gq.com/story/how-puerto-rico-became-tax-haven-for-super-richIf AAPL were to double in quick order from here, or if we were already looking at moving, I'd consider it. At the same time, I think some of the negatives that we see here would be even more prevalent there. Basically, it's all about happiness, and the "grass is always greener" is tougher the closer you are to people that are spending a lot more than you are. For instance, some friends moved here because they found one of the private schools to be so good, but after a year they didn't want to continue sending their kids there because so many of the other kids were talking so much about heading off to various european countries for spring break. That would be even more of an issue in a smallish fancy area gated off from the rest of the island, with people talking of getting their "days" in by flying in, and then boating out. In theory it sounds good too. But so does having the stock double, and that's more likely even if it takes 4-10 years. Have fun all. Lucky, if you move to Puerto Rico, you host the next gathering.
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Since84
Moderator
To infinity and beyond!
Posts: 3,933
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Post by Since84 on Sept 20, 2018 7:11:51 GMT -8
Though I've always loved New Hampshire, the fact that there is no state income tax (except on interest and dividends) and no sales tax (except on lodging and prepared meals) made my move financially advantageous...
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,182
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Post by JDSoCal on Sept 20, 2018 9:14:11 GMT -8
Don't even get me started on taxes. I live in CA, with a 13.3% top rate, plus 9% state and local sales tax, where even supposedly liberal Apple does not have its real headquarters. That's in tax-free Nevada. CA might be OK for startups that don't make profits. But where do they expand to once the profits start?
Puerto Rico would be a serious consideration if one could be free of all cap gains, even those unrealized from before living there. There are worse places to live and the dollar goes far.
There will always be people who think they deserve your money.
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Post by hledgard on Sept 20, 2018 9:24:27 GMT -8
Don't even get me started on taxes. I live in CA, with a 13.3% top rate, plus 9% state and local sales tax, where even supposedly liberal Apple does not have its real headquarters. That's in tax-free Nevada. CA might be OK for startups that don't make profits. But where do they expand to once the profits start? Puerto Rico would be a serious consideration if one could be free of all cap gains, even those unrealized from before living there. There are worse places to live and the dollar goes far. There will always be people who think they deserve your money. Love this post ! ! Also, why not make it easy for companies to locate in Puerto Rico? The people there would surely be better off.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,182
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Post by JDSoCal on Sept 20, 2018 9:45:19 GMT -8
Don't even get me started on taxes. I live in CA, with a 13.3% top rate, plus 9% state and local sales tax, where even supposedly liberal Apple does not have its real headquarters. That's in tax-free Nevada. CA might be OK for startups that don't make profits. But where do they expand to once the profits start? Puerto Rico would be a serious consideration if one could be free of all cap gains, even those unrealized from before living there. There are worse places to live and the dollar goes far. There will always be people who think they deserve your money. Love this post ! ! Also, why not make it easy for companies to locate in Puerto Rico? The people there would surely be better off. Why would the thieves want to let you escape easier? Several years ago, there was a voter initiative that they were trying to get on the ballot. They were collecting signatures outside of grocery stores (amazingly in CA, that is allowed on private property). I read the initiative. It would literally have fined companies millions for leaving the state. It didn't qualify, but that's the mentality, your money = my money and how dare you try to keep it! It's like an arsonist who starts a fire in a building, and then gets angry that those inside are using the fire exits! So many businesses (and people!) are leaving this state for greener pastures. CA is ranked LAST out of 50 states for business by CEO magazine like 10 years in a row. Some of you in different states have probably never heard of Carl's Jr (known as Hardee's in other parts of the country), probably my favorite place to get a hamburger. Well that chain was founded by the late Carl Karcher, who started with a hot dog stand and later a single restaurant in Anaheim. One of Orange County's true entrepreneurial success stories. Well they split due to taxes and regulations. I drive by the old HQ regularly, a vacant lot with a big Carl's Jr sign. A great symbol of what CA has become. You know that even Hollywood routinely films outside of CA for tax reasons. Often in Vancouver or Toronto. Imagine Canada being more competitive for business than CA. CA is so doomed and all they can brag about is the GDP. Well yeah it's huge and has 40M people. But with 12% of the US population, it has 34% of the welfare cases and a public pension catastrophe looming. In a state of 40M residents, around 10,000 people pay 50% of the taxes, and a large portion of it is the inconsistent cap gains (which are treated as regular income here). What happens when all the productive people leave?
Reminds me when Connecticut raised taxes and that hedgie left for Florida and they had to scramble to balance their budget.
If I thought I could bring CA to its knees by moving, I'd leave today.
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Post by CdnPhoto on Sept 20, 2018 15:20:00 GMT -8
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Post by edtech on Sept 20, 2018 20:46:35 GMT -8
So what is it about California that compels you to stay, if the taxes are so onerous, JDSoCal? Could it be that in your cost benefit analysis, that the benefits of staying California still outweigh its costs in taxes? Could companies staying in CA make a similar calculation and decide that there are still significant benefits to staying in California that warrant paying that cost? Simple free market forces at work?
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Post by Luckychoices on Sept 20, 2018 21:20:14 GMT -8
One day earlier, and the target could have been in the green. What's interesting to me is "though he kept his market perform rating on the stock.". Does that mean that he expects the market to also be flat over the next 12 months? In other news, I hadn't heard about Rule 22 in Puerto Rico. 11 years ago, we moved from CA to NV, both to move to a less busy place and to not have to pay as much as 13.6% in state taxes, since NV has no state income tax. We're not the only ones, and a lot of the people that move here in the upper middle income class and above do so with one of their biggest reasons being taxes. But Puerto Rico apparently has this Rule 22, where you could pay 0% in Federal Income tax. www.gq.com/story/how-puerto-rico-became-tax-haven-for-super-richIf AAPL were to double in quick order from here, or if we were already looking at moving, I'd consider it. At the same time, I think some of the negatives that we see here would be even more prevalent there. Basically, it's all about happiness, and the "grass is always greener" is tougher the closer you are to people that are spending a lot more than you are. For instance, some friends moved here because they found one of the private schools to be so good, but after a year they didn't want to continue sending their kids there because so many of the other kids were talking so much about heading off to various european countries for spring break. That would be even more of an issue in a smallish fancy area gated off from the rest of the island, with people talking of getting their "days" in by flying in, and then boating out. In theory it sounds good too. But so does having the stock double, and that's more likely even if it takes 4-10 years. Have fun all. Lucky, if you move to Puerto Rico, you host the next gathering. Right now, my wife and I are just very much looking forward to Since84's gathering in New Hampshire next month and, truthfully, having been born and raised in California, I have no plans to move *anywhere*. I love the variety of terrain/environments in California: seashore, mountains, desert, redwoods, etc. Also enjoy the multicultural aspects of the state. I've been friends with, and irritated with, people of all colors and ethnicities. :-) If the stock doubles in 4-10 years, we'll be able to deal with that somehow. Cheers to you, 4aapl, and to all the rest of the AAPL Longs on the board!
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,621
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Post by 4aapl on Sept 20, 2018 21:35:45 GMT -8
So what is it about California that compels you to stay, if the taxes are so onerous, JDSoCal? Could it be that in your cost benefit analysis, that the benefits of staying California still outweigh its costs in taxes? Could companies staying in CA make a similar calculation and decide that there are still significant benefits to staying in California that warrant paying that cost? Simple free market forces at work? California does have a lot going for it. But like most things, there's often downsides too. Personally, I was tired of various things related to higher localized populations, namely traffic, lines at stores, high property values and cost of living, and air pollution. Since already looking to leave, and being able to invest from anywhere, taxes were also an issue that was important. For comparison, my wife has been helping a friend learn to drive, which can be a challenge. But some things are tough to practice on. We have no high-traffic 4-way stop signs, and the closest road with two lanes in each direction is exiting the next town over. There's plenty of downsides too, but traffic isn't normally one of them except due to road work or tourists. Today I went to the biggest US bicycling trade show, Interbike. I didn't ask at the first 3 places, but all brought up that there would be higher prices due the tariffs, that some had already calculated into their prices and others said would be in soon. These were at more major places (Burly and Rambo both had nice looking bike trailers), though there was a whole section of e-bikes and then of components, both which were even more Chinese based. In that industry, it is going to make a difference.
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Post by Luckychoices on Sept 20, 2018 23:10:57 GMT -8
So what is it about California that compels you to stay, if the taxes are so onerous, JDSoCal? Could it be that in your cost benefit analysis, that the benefits of staying California still outweigh its costs in taxes? Could companies staying in CA make a similar calculation and decide that there are still significant benefits to staying in California that warrant paying that cost? Simple free market forces at work? California does have a lot going for it. But like most things, there's often downsides too. Personally, I was tired of various things related to higher localized populations, namely traffic, lines at stores, high property values and cost of living, and air pollution. Since already looking to leave, and being able to invest from anywhere, taxes were also an issue that was important. For comparison, my wife has been helping a friend learn to drive, which can be a challenge. But some things are tough to practice on. We have no high-traffic 4-way stop signs, and the closest road with two lanes in each direction is exiting the next town over. There's plenty of downsides too, but traffic isn't normally one of them except due to road work or tourists. Today I went to the biggest US bicycling trade show, Interbike. I didn't ask at the first 3 places, but all brought up that there would be higher prices due the tariffs, that some had already calculated into their prices and others said would be in soon. These were at more major places (Burly and Rambo both had nice looking bike trailers), though there was a whole section of e-bikes and then of components, both which were even more Chinese based. In that industry, it is going to make a difference. I agree with you on all of these negatives but try to reduce/eliminate the impact of each: 1. traffic: Since my wife and I are both retired, we try to stay off the freeways between 3-7 PM, if possible. 2. lines at stores: Not a problem for us. I hate to shop and my wife's favorite store is Sur la Table (kitchen, cooking implements)...no lines. I try to buy clothes, whenever possible, from online stores (L. L. Bean, etc) or venture into a store during off-hours. 3. high property values and cost of living: Being invested in AAPL has *drastically* reduced the impact of each of these. 4. air pollution: Yeah, that pretty much sucks.
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,621
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Post by 4aapl on Sept 21, 2018 6:04:55 GMT -8
California does have a lot going for it. But like most things, there's often downsides too. Personally, I was tired of various things related to higher localized populations, namely traffic, lines at stores, high property values and cost of living, and air pollution. Since already looking to leave, and being able to invest from anywhere, taxes were also an issue that was important. For comparison, my wife has been helping a friend learn to drive, which can be a challenge. But some things are tough to practice on. We have no high-traffic 4-way stop signs, and the closest road with two lanes in each direction is exiting the next town over. There's plenty of downsides too, but traffic isn't normally one of them except due to road work or tourists. Today I went to the biggest US bicycling trade show, Interbike. I didn't ask at the first 3 places, but all brought up that there would be higher prices due the tariffs, that some had already calculated into their prices and others said would be in soon. These were at more major places (Burly and Rambo both had nice looking bike trailers), though there was a whole section of e-bikes and then of components, both which were even more Chinese based. In that industry, it is going to make a difference. I agree with you on all of these negatives but try to reduce/eliminate the impact of each: 1. traffic: Since my wife and I are both retired, we try to stay off the freeways between 3-7 PM, if possible. 2. lines at stores: Not a problem for us. I hate to shop and my wife's favorite store is Sur la Table (kitchen, cooking implements)...no lines. I try to buy clothes, whenever possible, from online stores (L. L. Bean, etc) or venture into a store during off-hours. 3. high property values and cost of living: Being invested in AAPL has *drastically* reduced the impact of each of these. 4. air pollution: Yeah, that pretty much sucks. I don't like shopping either, but I was just talking the basics, of groceries. Out last place in the SF Bay Area was just SW of the intersection of 17 and 280, behind Ebay and across the street from Pruneridge. There were 4 or 5 grocery stores within a mile, including both Trader Joes and Whole Foods across the street. But just like traffic, things pick up when a lot of people want the same thing. Yes, we could work around it, just like we sometimes do a 7am run to Raleys here when they open to avoid the tourists on a big time like 4th of July. But it's like deciding if it's worth continuing to buy gas at Costco if you have to go out of your way and then have a line. That is a choice, but do you really want to continue doing it if you have the choice? We had the option to live anywhere, so instead of basing our life around avoiding busy times, it was one reason we moved. But really, the general idea is "a lot of people living in one place, and the infrastructure not being fully built out to accommodate that because the population has grown", and thus you have traffic, high costs, and people living out of RVs on the street. Conversely, you have a huge variety of people, plus lots of nearby shops and ethnic stores/restaurants. OTOH, we have some of that here, whether it's avoiding the crowds at the store, the beach, the ski resort, or sometimes even the trails. Luckily for us, that only gets outrageous at peak tourist times. Separate from population, the climate is pretty awesome in most of CA, and there is a lot of variety in topography/geography nearby. Like many population centers, you see a lot of people streaming out of there heading into the weekend. My wife calls it "rats fleeing the ship". But such is life when on a standard 5 day a week schedule. We're always happy we're going counter-commute.
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