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Post by Lstream on Dec 18, 2012 9:06:14 GMT -8
Judge Koh's message: You're free to infringe on any patents you want to as long as you include enough other features that don't infringe patents. What a grade A idiot. Way to defend IP. She has not said anything about monetary damages yet has she? So far, I thought she was using this line of thought to deny an injunction. Her thinking is not so insane, when it is used to justify not granting the injunction.
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Post by podboy on Dec 18, 2012 9:06:27 GMT -8
Looks like we may see a Santa / end of the world rally! I know I want to spend my last few minutes here on earth trading AAPL.
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Post by moltenfire on Dec 18, 2012 9:10:48 GMT -8
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2012 9:15:56 GMT -8
Samesung to drop lawsuits against AAPL in Europe...supposedly on Bloomberg...stock popping as soon as headlines hit. does signal a licensing deal is coming? Why would they just drop it? Because Apple hit them with a far more effective weapon. SEASONAL PRICE DISCOUNTS Apple enjoys industry high Gross Margins and is the best at controlling Op Ex. The strength of those two line items puts Apple in a unique position whereby they can cut off Samsung's oxygen through seasonal discounts. Now think Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Best Buy, Verizon, AT&T, Sprint and others, that are discounting the hottest selling items this Holiday Season by up to 12%. Samsung, the fast copier that differentiates with price is dead meat. There is no way they win this battle/war. They haven't got the margins or cash reserves to do it. I think the Authorized discounts that Apple's retailers are offering, are the cause of Apple's low Gross Margin guidance. That guidance has ZERO to do with production expense/difficulty.
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Post by leonb on Dec 18, 2012 9:32:43 GMT -8
I think Gregg's onto something here - Apple may be authorizing these discounts to crush Samsung rather than in response to weakening demand (or it being the retailers' loss leader) - otherwise the reduced margins seem extreme (the Mini's slimmer margins are still between 40% and 55% apparently).
Not sure how this relates to the lawsuits though.
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Post by rezonate on Dec 18, 2012 9:33:22 GMT -8
Any day the phrase "nuked from orbit" comes up I'm thankful and just have to laugh. Never expected it on this board though! Anybody else happy there will never be another Monday? Thanks, Mayans!
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Post by rickag on Dec 18, 2012 9:34:59 GMT -8
does signal a licensing deal is coming? Why would they just drop it? Because Apple hit them with a far more effective weapon. SEASONAL PRICE DISCOUNTS Apple enjoys industry high Gross Margins and is the best at controlling Op Ex. The strength of those two line items puts Apple in a unique position whereby they can cut off Samsung's oxygen through seasonal discounts. Now think Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Best Buy, Verizon, AT&T, Sprint and others, that are discounting the hottest selling items this Holiday Season by up to 12%. Samsung, the fast copier that differentiates with price is dead meat. There is no way they win this battle/war. They haven't got the margins or cash reserves to do it. I think the Authorized discounts that Apple's retailers are offering, are the cause of Apple's low Gross Margin guidance. That guidance has ZERO to do with production expense/difficulty. Thank for the perspective. Seems reasonable, but I'm torn between whether for me as an investor between increased sales or better margins. I want both.
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Post by PikesPique on Dec 18, 2012 9:38:27 GMT -8
I guess SPF 1,000,000 is in order for Friday?
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Post by mstefa on Dec 18, 2012 9:39:30 GMT -8
the theory goes on like this: once you take market share and some competition leaves, you increase your margins. That's what's keeping AMZN floating in air. Once they destroy competition they will increase margins and rule the world.
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Post by PikesPique on Dec 18, 2012 9:40:23 GMT -8
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Post by lovemyipad on Dec 18, 2012 9:42:21 GMT -8
SO FAR, SO GOOD!!!!
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Post by Lstream on Dec 18, 2012 9:46:21 GMT -8
the theory goes on like this: once you take market share and some competition leaves, you increase your margins. That's what's keeping AMZN floating in air. Once they destroy competition they will increase margins and rule the world. Except they are just a glorified retail channel. They may hurt other retailers but they will not disappear. If they ever try to increase margins beyond even weakened competition, there is no real reason for customers to stick with them. There is no loyalty in that Amazon model.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2012 9:51:31 GMT -8
I think Gregg's onto something here - Apple may be authorizing these discounts to crush Samsung rather than in response to weakening demand (or it being the retailers' loss leader) - otherwise the reduced margins seem extreme (the Mini's slimmer margins are still between 40% and 55% apparently). Not sure how this relates to the lawsuits though. Samsung is calling a truce.
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Post by leonb on Dec 18, 2012 9:55:10 GMT -8
Agree. Amazon's weakness is that it is easy to replicate - you can clone a rival with a huge capital investment, and no patents or talent required, and no deep brand loyalty to contend with. Capital (at this level, with these stakes) is the lowest barrier to entry. As soon as Amazon increases its margins, physical shops, resellers, and massively funded clones will all take back revenue. It's still a great company, just a stupidly priced share.
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Post by leonb on Dec 18, 2012 9:58:45 GMT -8
I think Gregg's onto something here - Apple may be authorizing these discounts to crush Samsung rather than in response to weakening demand (or it being the retailers' loss leader) - otherwise the reduced margins seem extreme (the Mini's slimmer margins are still between 40% and 55% apparently). Not sure how this relates to the lawsuits though. Samsung is calling a truce. Do you think by sending this signal to Apple Samsung expects it to quit discounting? Is such implicit collusion likely to work? I still think the issues are separate.
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Post by jdrizzo89 on Dec 18, 2012 10:04:38 GMT -8
I don't get how brick and mordar shops will over take amazon. It is the only true online retailer. I know very few other sites comparable.
Still not a 100+ PE worthy tho
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4aapl
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Post by 4aapl on Dec 18, 2012 10:07:37 GMT -8
Following through yesterday, now up 1% in PM. This bad boy may just be going places. Cute! Nice to have some breathing room from the sub 510 level, even if my small amount of Dec 605-615's are still worthless.
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Post by leonb on Dec 18, 2012 10:11:25 GMT -8
I don't get how brick and mordar shops will over take amazon. It is the only true online retailer. I know very few other sites comparable. Still not a 100+ PE worthy tho I don't think the bricks & mortar shops will overtake Amazon either - only that they limit Amazon's margins (currently around 1.5%, I think). Similarly, while Amazon is the supreme online retailer today, it is checked against increasing margins by the threat of thereby inviting online competition, because the major barrier to entry here is capital; and in my opinion capital is more easily marshalled than talent, an ecosystem which traps, or brand loyalty (all of which Apple enjoys).
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4aapl
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Post by 4aapl on Dec 18, 2012 10:23:10 GMT -8
I don't get how brick and mordar shops will over take amazon. It is the only true online retailer. I know very few other sites comparable. I wouldn't say overtake, but there are advantages to a brick and mortar shop, and I can see being an online place but having some shops, basically a storefront on the front of a warehouse. In most but not all ways (still some added costs), you get the best of both worlds. There are things that you want to see and touch in person, especially where sizing matters. And then there are a lot of people that aren't as comfortable buying online, though that group is shrinking. I'm having a heck of a time finding the right filter for a 10 year old craftsman shopvac. What I really need to do is just head over to Sears with the vacuum, and start ripping open packages until I find one that fits. I could order one from Amazon that says it should fit, but it's the same one I originally bought at our local ACE and didn't look like it would work, being much narrower. But I didn't bother opening it at the time since it looked like it clearly wouldn't work, and the ACE is a lower overhead locally owned place, so I didn't want to get it all messed up and then try to return it. They already help me out enough. I like the idea of a storefront on the front of a warehouse, giving quick and shipping free access to a decent supply, but more extensive availability of items when you need it. Amazon has part of that, but it's like the difference between Netflix and Redbox or Cable, in the instant availability of movies vs having to plan a little, along with differences in cost and time.
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4aapl
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Post by 4aapl on Dec 18, 2012 10:26:23 GMT -8
Now think Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Best Buy, Verizon, AT&T, Sprint and others, that are discounting the hottest selling items this Holiday Season by up to 12%. Target too. My parents just bought their first iPad there, getting a $50 target gift card with their $499 purchase.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Dec 18, 2012 11:04:13 GMT -8
I quick-traded out around 524. I REGRET NOTHING AAPL reclaiming 530 would be excellent, though not sure if I'll put another trade on yet.
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Post by mstefa on Dec 18, 2012 11:10:29 GMT -8
Now think Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Best Buy, Verizon, AT&T, Sprint and others, that are discounting the hottest selling items this Holiday Season by up to 12%. Target too. My parents just bought their first iPad there, getting a $50 target gift card with their $499 purchase. no discounts in Canada that I've heard of
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Dec 18, 2012 11:13:39 GMT -8
Wait, wait
Fiscal slope far from resolved.
Well, small victories. For now, sitting it out. AAPL would likely retrace on fiscal slope concerns brewing again this week. Let's see how the stock reacts.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2012 11:16:03 GMT -8
Samsung is calling a truce. Do you think by sending this signal to Apple Samsung expects it to quit discounting? Is such implicit collusion likely to work? I still think the issues are separate. I think Aapple is smart like a fox. With a customer retention rate of about 90%, once the choice is made for an Apple product, that customer is lost to the competition forever. Apple only has to discount once per year, (December quarter) to cut off peak selling season oxygen, AND take a customer away from Samdroid forever. ALL wars are of attrition. The goal is to deny your opponent the ability to wage war. Samdroid just recognized that they lost this war. Better they sue for peace, and escape with their hide (and Apple supply contracts).
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Post by artman1033 on Dec 18, 2012 11:23:41 GMT -8
FWIW: Apple discounted products in the past. HERE June 2011 AND HERE December 2010
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Post by roni on Dec 18, 2012 11:26:32 GMT -8
Wait, wait Fiscal slope far from resolved. Well, small victories. For now, sitting it out. AAPL would likely retrace on fiscal slope concerns brewing again this week. Let's see how the stock reacts. If it retraces again, I will buy again If it does not, I will add a couple of more dividend positions to make it an even 20.
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Post by artman1033 on Dec 18, 2012 11:29:45 GMT -8
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Post by kloot on Dec 18, 2012 11:29:55 GMT -8
FWIW: Apple discounted products in the past. HERE June 2011 AND HERE December 2010 good finds, and memory. prices are always "slashed". I was cleaning off my desk yesterday and found old printouts of articles from 2010 and 2011 about the iPad and cannibalization. only back then it was the iPad doing it to the air. the song remains the same.
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Post by lovemyipad on Dec 18, 2012 11:36:06 GMT -8
Cheap, throwaway bear put spreads for peace of mind / hedge:
DEC'12 485/500 @ .50
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Dec 18, 2012 11:37:20 GMT -8
Aw iPad! C'mon!
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