chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,426
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Post by chinacat on Feb 4, 2019 16:49:05 GMT -8
OK, then, I guess we're clear YOU (CHINACAT) are a moderator! I am passing responsibility of JD's post to YOU. I am DEEPLY conflicted. His post is OBVIOUSLY POLITICAL. I agree with him completely. YOU must do what YOU must do! But I am a mere Moderator and you are a 5 Star Global Moderator <sound of distant trumpets>! If your personal political feelings interfere with your ability to do your job perhaps it's time for abdication. JD, you certainly know that this Massachusetts liberal does not agree with your political leanings, but you have done a good job of staying on topic for this newsgroup lately. There was no mention of Apple specifically in the article, but they certainly fit the description quoted. Just like you, Senators have a right to their opinions. I was much more confused by your cheering section. Let's move on and work on getting AAPL over $200/share again.
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Post by Lstream on Feb 4, 2019 17:01:58 GMT -8
Regarding the JD post, I agree with the main point. The government has no business sticking their nose into what businesses do with SHAREHOLDER money. Including buybacks. What’s next? Dividends under attack?
The whole theme of vilifying people who have become massively wealthty, often because they created something of value is also gettting out of hand.
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benoir
fire starter
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Posts: 1,318
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Post by benoir on Feb 4, 2019 17:07:35 GMT -8
I have to say.... that I really quite like JD (maybe it’s just his avatar??? I imagine he looks like that...stern, witty and a complete arsehole(that’s a compliment!)), despite what I might post in response.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,182
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Post by JDSoCal on Feb 4, 2019 17:14:59 GMT -8
Well we’ll well, look what Bernie Sanders and Chuckie Schumer are up to. They want to tell Apple what it can do with our money. www.nytimes.com/2019/02/03/opinion/chuck-schumer-bernie-sanders.html“So focused on shareholder value, companies, rather than investing in ways to make their businesses more resilient or their workers more productive, have been dedicating ever larger shares of their profits to dividends and corporate share repurchases. When a company purchases its own stock back, it reduces the number of publicly traded shares, boosting the value of the stock to the benefit of shareholders and corporate leadership.” Oh noes, corporations looking out for its shareholders! Can’t have that when we can redistribute that wealth to healthcare for illegal aliens and other Democrat votes! Can’t wait to see the libs here spin this one. Bernie could easily be the nominee in 2020 BTW. Other people’s money! What, and Trump hasn’t done the same with regards to what Apple should do with our money? ...Can’t wait to see the libs conservatives spin this one.... Your first three lines were relevant. The last three lines were just political BS. Actually Benoir, I don't remember Trump calling for legislation to direct Apple how to spend its revenues. I saw the opposite, in fact. Trump and the Republican Congress passed massive corporate tax reform, which could double Apple's realized revenues, since foreign earnings don't have to be parked overseas anymore. That tax change was and remains widely criticized by Democrats, and they want to repeal it. Trump did ask, hey "WTF Apple, if we're going to cut you tax breaks, maybe you should open some factories in the USA." I found it comical (because I thought it was Dems who were the ones who cared about outsourcing and Tim Cook is a lib), although I believe it an inappropriate meddling into corporate affairs and the free market. And I'd tell DJT that if I met him in person. e.g., "Mr President, Apple is one of the last great American success stories, and they have created a lot of wealth for the American stockholder, as well as changing consumers' lives for the better with pro-privacy policies and great customer service. It's a liberal thing to attack US corps, not a conservative or 'MAGA' thing to do so".
Factories are one-time expenses that, and considering how much Apple just paid for its new HQ, new factories are probably rounding errors; but stockholders are Americans too and they own the company and politicians should just butt the F out. But this Schumer-Sanders thing is outright redistribution of wealth. It should scare any investor, not just Apple investors, that apparently it is a mainstream Democrat position that private companies exist to create jobs, rather than enrich shareholders? Socialism does seem to be going mainstream in the Democrat party. Or am I wrong about @aoc being a rising star in the party, and 90% tax rates being floated by the Dems? I was not aware we had actual moderators here. But it seems this forum has done quite well without one all these years. I do recall a lot of Trump trashing here recently for his trade negotiations with China, something I thought Democrats cared about until DJT got involved in the issue. "Trump is an idiot for the trade war because AAPL stock is down" was about the gist of it. Or did I misremember those Orange Man Bad™ posts? But if there's one thing lefties like, it's censoring ideas they don't like. Yay we have a moderator, burn the witch! Edit: BTW, I'm not trying to be a troll; it's just this recent race to the left and blatant vilification of wealth and success scares the living shit out of me. That's not what made America - thought I was going to say 'great' didn't you? - amass a larger GDP than all of the EU in about one tenth the time. Scary times!
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chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,426
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Post by chinacat on Feb 4, 2019 17:26:06 GMT -8
But if there's one thing lefties like, it's censoring ideas they don't like. Yay we have a moderator, burn the witch!
Geeeez, JD, I resisted censorship. Personally, I decided to become a moderator at the request of and to support Since84, who has expended considerable effort to keep this valuable resource (certainly for me, at least) afloat. I have tried to be careful to keep my typically Democratic Boston pinko politics under wraps, and I am quite miffed that you do not appreciate my efforts.
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Post by Luckychoices on Feb 4, 2019 17:27:24 GMT -8
I just came across an article on Seeking Alpha called, "Apple: Is Any Market Big Enough?" Among all the things we're read before the author included these:
============================= 1. Since the peak in 2018 Apple's share price plummeted to approximately $750 billion. The main concern that investors, me including, have is that Apple has been unable to diversify its business sufficiently and there's no counterbalance to their iPhone segment. Apple's valuation metrics don't look bad in a historical comparison, but investors also should keep an eye on their overall business performance.
2. Apple is less and less able to provide a good return on their increasing assets. Assets consist of inventories, PP&E, and other non-current assets. The compounded annual growth rates of their PP&E is 16% while their compounded annual growth rate of their net income is only 5.21% in the same time frame. Return on asset (RoA) decreased from 125% in 2013 to 90% in 2018. RoA shows that even if Apple is investing in their business, the return that they can get on those assets is decreasing with time.
3. Apple, at its current valuation and its current business model, is not a buy. On a scale from 0 to 10 where 10 is definite buy recommendation and 0 a definite sell recommendation, I would value Apple's shares as 3.5. I base this valuation on too much dependency on iPhone sales and weak Mac and iPad sales. Apple is missing something, and as long as I don't see a clear idea of what the executives and managers are trying to accomplish I won't feel comfortable to buy shares as they are currently valued. ============================= With most Apple/AAPL articles on Seeking Alpha, I usually get more out of the comments than I do the article and this was no exception. A person with the username of JP24, whose comments I always find worth reading, responded to the article as follows:
--------- JP24 Comments6395 | + Follow So, as this write-up demonstrates, investors have two choices. They can either stand on their heads spinning around trying to come up with reasons to not buy/own. Or they can simply choose to buy/own. The second choice just seems so much easier to me, so I’ll just stick with door number 2. --------- ***I couldn't come close to guessing the number of times I've read comments from folks who *plan* to invest in AAPL, just as soon as the share price hits their price point or when the charts tell them it's time to buy or any other reason they can come up with to put off buying AAPL. Meanwhile, there are any number of AAPL Longs around (both on AFB and off) that are very financially comfortable today because *they didn't know enough* to hold off on buying AAPL until all conditions were perfect.
I'm may be the very worst on AFB when it comes to understanding the ups and downs of the market but, when it comes to investing in AAPL, over the past 18+ years my spreadsheets have shown me clearly that it's easy...don't overthink it...it's *freaking* door number 2!
Cheers to the AAPL Longs!!
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chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,426
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Post by chinacat on Feb 4, 2019 17:53:03 GMT -8
Regarding the JD post, I agree with the main point. The government has no business sticking their nose into what businesses do with SHAREHOLDER money. Including buybacks. What’s next? Dividends under attack? The whole theme of vilifying people who have become massively wealthty, often because they created something of value is also gettting out of hand. I grew up in a solidly blue collar household. My Dad worked two jobs most of his life, and my Mom worked part time as soon as all of the kids were in school and old enough to take care of themselves when they got home. I was fortunate enough to get into a good college and have a career in software, including being a founder of a small software business with two partners, giving me the opportunity to be able to invest in Apple and others. I do still support a progressive tax system, having seen both sides of the coin, including taxation of corporations. Certainly the devil is in the details, and politics provides the forum for a societal discussion thereof.
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Post by Lstream on Feb 4, 2019 19:09:46 GMT -8
Thanks. Similar background, with my dad working for the railway, and me able to get an electrical engineering degree and an MBA. Founded three tech companies, which involved lots of sacrifice, including working for nothing at times. While I support a progressive tax system to a degree, what really irks me is to have entrepreneurial activity and resulting wealth creation vilified as if it is some kind of great evil, with the people taking the risk targeted for confiscatory levels of taxation. Which I think is where some of this is headed.
When I see the kind of thinking pointed out by JD, where government attacks the basic tenet of shareholder value, I get seriously concerned about the principle of the entitled coming after the value that someone else built. Recognizing of course that the government is paid all along through income and other forms of taxes, whether or not enterprises like mine live or die.
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Post by sponge on Feb 4, 2019 20:28:13 GMT -8
This is the same company that is eating Apples lunch in China. TC will go down as the worst CEO in history for making a deal with China. He ignores privacy issues there by allowing the government to spy on its own people while going after FB and Google who give Apple billions. When the Huawei’s of China tell the government they have all the technology they need from Apple, the Chinese will politely tell TC his factories will have close down and TC will blame Trump.
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Post by Lstream on Feb 4, 2019 21:02:20 GMT -8
This is the same company that is eating Apples lunch in China. TC will go down as the worst CEO in history for making a deal with China. He ignores privacy issues there by allowing the government to spy on its own people while going after FB and Google who give Apple billions. When the Huawei’s of China tell the government they have all the technology they need from Apple, the Chinese will politely tell TC his factories will have close down and TC will blame Trump. Worst CEO in history huh? Thanks for the laugh. Even though all of this nonsense you keep spewing, does nothing to help those doomed puts of yours, it is still damn funny to watch you keep trying. Investing for pre-schoolers.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,182
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Post by JDSoCal on Feb 4, 2019 21:37:33 GMT -8
Regarding the JD post, I agree with the main point. The government has no business sticking their nose into what businesses do with SHAREHOLDER money. Including buybacks. What’s next? Dividends under attack? Actually the Schumer-Sanders op-ed does criticize dividends too. 🙄 I’ll bet all those underfunded public employee pension funds don’t agree. I’m just wondering if anyone here got wealthy or had their income inequality reduced because of something the government did for them - or was it because you invested your own money? Maybe we should be teaching that in high schools, ie, how to open and find a brokerage account to partake in the American Dream, instead of teaching the dogmas of “social justice” and envy. Just an idea.
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Since84
Moderator
To infinity and beyond!
Posts: 3,933
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Post by Since84 on Feb 5, 2019 2:51:35 GMT -8
I would like to point out that, from Apple's perspective, Apple Park is their largest and, hopefully, most productive factory...
Not all creation takes the same form.
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Post by redinaustin on Feb 5, 2019 3:25:56 GMT -8
Well we’ll well, look what Bernie Sanders and Chuckie Schumer are up to. They want to tell Apple what it can do with our money. www.nytimes.com/2019/02/03/opinion/chuck-schumer-bernie-sanders.html“So focused on shareholder value, companies, rather than investing in ways to make their businesses more resilient or their workers more productive, have been dedicating ever larger shares of their profits to dividends and corporate share repurchases. When a company purchases its own stock back, it reduces the number of publicly traded shares, boosting the value of the stock to the benefit of shareholders and corporate leadership.” Oh noes, corporations looking out for its shareholders! Can’t have that when we can redistribute that wealth to healthcare for illegal aliens and other Democrat votes! Can’t wait to see the libs here spin this one. Bernie could easily be the nominee in 2020 BTW. Other people’s money! Just can’t control yourself 😞
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Post by hledgard on Feb 5, 2019 5:47:39 GMT -8
JD, I am with you all the way ! !
(I felt all his posts above were a real attempt to cool the politics. The comments about Sanders and Schumer were appropriate.)
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