chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,426
|
Post by chinacat on Jul 5, 2019 5:47:45 GMT -8
Very disappointed to wake up this morning and find that bigotry has come (or at least decided to show itself) to AFB. I suppose that it has something to do with Why companies like Apple and Facebook just weighed in on a gay rights case hitting the Supreme Court. I am confident that the majority of members do not share these hateful and abhorrent views. We have survived the coming and going of many valuable members over the years, but I am sure that I will not be the only one to exit if such posts continue. Remember: Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
|
|
|
Post by artman1033 on Jul 5, 2019 5:53:58 GMT -8
Very disappointed to wake up this morning and find that bigotry has come (or at least decided to show itself) to AFB. I suppose that it has something to do with Why companies like Apple and Facebook just weighed in on a gay rights case hitting the Supreme Court. I am confident that the majority of members do not share these hateful and abhorrent views. We have survived the coming and going of many valuable members over the years, but I am sure that I will not be the only one to exit if such posts continue. Is this the tweet that started the:
|
|
chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,426
|
Post by chinacat on Jul 5, 2019 5:55:42 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by sponge on Jul 5, 2019 6:04:32 GMT -8
Well clearly option 1 with the high today is taking place. It looks like I was off by 1 point from my target. Originally I thought 205.5 would be the high. Got out with some losses on my calls and switched to puts.
Strong job growth appears to be the reason for sell off. But China tariff issues I think will play a bigger role in the coming weeks.
We will see how low we go today.
My issue with TC has nothing to do with him being gay. It has everything to do with how he is running the company. He is maximizing profits to the determent of the consumer. That strategy will come back to bite you.
|
|
|
Post by macster on Jul 5, 2019 6:23:09 GMT -8
Very disappointed to wake up this morning and find that bigotry has come (or at least decided to show itself) to AFB. I suppose that it has something to do with Why companies like Apple and Facebook just weighed in on a gay rights case hitting the Supreme Court. I am confident that the majority of members do not share these hateful and abhorrent views. We have survived the coming and going of many valuable members over the years, but I am sure that I will not be the only one to exit if such posts continue. Remember: Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. There you go again. Making hay out of your perceived notion that there is bigotry in my comments. Steve Jobs would not approve of Cook politicizing gay rights on behalf of the Corporation. Life, liberty and the pursuit of Happiness is right on so please abstain from your name calling trying mistakenly injure a fellow board member.
|
|
|
Post by northstar on Jul 5, 2019 6:47:47 GMT -8
Very disappointed to wake up this morning and find that bigotry has come (or at least decided to show itself) to AFB. I suppose that it has something to do with Why companies like Apple and Facebook just weighed in on a gay rights case hitting the Supreme Court. I am confident that the majority of members do not share these hateful and abhorrent views. We have survived the coming and going of many valuable members over the years, but I am sure that I will not be the only one to exit if such posts continue. Remember: Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. There you go again. Making hay out of your perceived notion that there is bigotry in my comments. Steve Jobs would not approve of Cook politicizing gay rights on behalf of the Corporation. Life, liberty and the pursuit of Happiness is right on so please abstain from your name calling trying mistakenly injure a fellow board member. Don't you dare say what Steve Jobs would say. History speaks for itself... Apple before Cook was all about being different, are you oblivious to the past 30 years? Cook acts and talks in 2019, not as a dead founder locked in 2011. Honestly some people are just predisposed to stupidity.
|
|
chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,426
|
Post by chinacat on Jul 5, 2019 6:48:27 GMT -8
There you go again. Making hay out of your perceived notion that there is bigotry in my comments. Steve Jobs would not approve of Cook politicizing gay rights on behalf of the Corporation. Life, liberty and the pursuit of Happiness is right on so please abstain from your name calling trying mistakenly injure a fellow board member. Wow, I am impressed. I had no idea that Steve Jobs was contacting you directly from the Great Beyond. Your invocation of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is beyond ironic. I'll be glad to step away, thanks.
|
|
|
Post by BillH on Jul 5, 2019 6:50:30 GMT -8
"Steve Jobs would not approve of Cook politicizing gay rights on behalf of the Corporation." Maybe but I suspect he would be very proud of his hand picked successor following his advice to follow his own drum and not spend any time thinking of what Steve would do. Having been around for the Sculley, Spindler and Amelio years it's my belief that Steve chose wisely.
|
|
crispin
Member
KBJ for the win. AAPL long and strong since 2000
Posts: 311
|
Post by crispin on Jul 5, 2019 6:59:31 GMT -8
Does this board have a mechanism for “ignoring” posters? I haven’t seen any option for it. There are a couple that would be good candidates.
|
|
|
Post by artman1033 on Jul 5, 2019 7:11:40 GMT -8
Does this board have a mechanism for “ignoring” posters? I haven’t seen any option for it. There are a couple that would be good candidates. I BELIEVE IT DOES. IF you click on the poster's PROFILE, you click on the gear in the upper right corner and hit BLOCK. (FWIW: I Tried the example on my own profile, but the software would not allow me to block myself)
|
|
|
Post by macster on Jul 5, 2019 7:16:48 GMT -8
T0o many misguided liberals on this board. I'll be glad to be ignored. Go ahead and prove the close minded affairs of the left. I'll say it again.
If Tim does not want to be treated differently for being gay, then stop acting like being gay somehow makes you special. Your sexual orientation is neither an achievement nor a holiday. You have not accomplished anything simply by being attracted to one sex or another. His political (politics) action in the official capacity as CEO has embarrassed the corporation in the general public mindset.
|
|
|
Post by silkstone on Jul 5, 2019 7:17:17 GMT -8
Right, we need to remember that Tim Cook was hand picked after much thought by Steve Jobs. It didn’t matter if he was gay. Number one reason if I remember correctly was Tim’s genius as a supply chain manager. The ability to get millions of iPhones, iPads, macs, watches, earpods, etc. manufactured to very high standards, shipped all over the world and delivered on time requires a person who is well beyond what most of us here are capable of. If Tim was mismanaging the company by producing inferior products to the detriment of the consumer, I don’t think our consumer satisfaction levels would be 90 + percent so you have that wrong. And his job as the CEO is exactly that, to maximize profits for the benefit of shareholders so he’s doing a great job there as well. In addition to all that he’s keeping employees very happy and enjoying very high satisfaction scores from the people who work for Apple.
|
|
|
Post by audiosculpture12 on Jul 5, 2019 7:33:20 GMT -8
T0o many misguided liberals on this board. I'll be glad to be ignored. Go ahead and prove the close minded affairs of the left. I'll say it again. If Tim does not want to be treated differently for being gay, then stop acting like being gay somehow makes you special. Your sexual orientation is neither an achievement nor a holiday. You have not accomplished anything simply by being attracted to one sex or another. His political (politics) action in the official capacity as CEO has embarrassed the corporation in the general public mindset. This is what you wrote to kick it off Macster: "Namely, today when we think of Apple we think more of 'LGBT' and the connotation that comes from sexual behaviors for the purpose of pleasure instead of what we used to think." This is very narrow minded. Sounds like you're trying to rewrite sexual behaviour historically - what is the cliche of the oldest profession? Was Steve as a great responsible father figure in his middle years? I guess that wasn't at the forefront of his mind all the time. So i don't really understand your objection - are you homophobic?
|
|
|
Post by sponge on Jul 5, 2019 8:09:55 GMT -8
Right, we need to remember that Tim Cook was hand picked after much thought by Steve Jobs. It didn’t matter if he was gay. Number one reason if I remember correctly was Tim’s genius as a supply chain manager. The ability to get millions of iPhones, iPads, macs, watches, earpods, etc. manufactured to very high standards, shipped all over the world and delivered on time requires a person who is well beyond what most of us here are capable of. If Tim was mismanaging the company by producing inferior products to the detriment of the consumer, I don’t think our consumer satisfaction levels would be 90 + percent so you have that wrong. And his job as the CEO is exactly that, to maximize profits for the benefit of shareholders so he’s doing a great job there as well. In addition to all that he’s keeping employees very happy and enjoying very high satisfaction scores from the people who work for Apple. Then we will simply judge him based on earnings growth and price of the stock nothing else. So moving forward dont blame Trump or China or the economy if things go south. So far the stock is going down from ATH and every metric is going down. I believe he has managed the ability to produce millions of iPhones and was lucky enough to be present during the mobile revolution started by Apple not him personally. But he did it by making a deal with a country that will bite the hand that feeds it. He also increased the pricing of Apple's hit product and now sales are down in a booming economy. Smart phone adoption and switchers are no longer discussed in conference calls. Focusing on movies and services are distractions especially when they make up such a small portion of overall profits. Yes satisfaction is sky high for their products and that will keep the company healthy for many years. But there are dark clouds gathering as we see poor execution on many fronts. Look I will admit that even if the stock drops 45% from here, the present board will not fire him. His liberal views will keep him from being fired since most of the board agrees with him. But if the 5G becomes a dud and the stock stays in the $120 range come end of 2021, then we will be having a very different conversation.
|
|
|
Post by BillH on Jul 5, 2019 8:27:03 GMT -8
The price of the phones went up because the content within it went up. Margins didn't rise. Favoring all people being treated equal in the eyes of the law isn't a sexuality issue it's a key component of the reason this country was founded. Being in favor of same doesn't make one a liberal. If anything, it makes one an American.
|
|
|
Post by silkstone on Jul 5, 2019 9:00:32 GMT -8
Right, we need to remember that Tim Cook was hand picked after much thought by Steve Jobs. It didn’t matter if he was gay. Number one reason if I remember correctly was Tim’s genius as a supply chain manager. The ability to get millions of iPhones, iPads, macs, watches, earpods, etc. manufactured to very high standards, shipped all over the world and delivered on time requires a person who is well beyond what most of us here are capable of. If Tim was mismanaging the company by producing inferior products to the detriment of the consumer, I don’t think our consumer satisfaction levels would be 90 + percent so you have that wrong. And his job as the CEO is exactly that, to maximize profits for the benefit of shareholders so he’s doing a great job there as well. In addition to all that he’s keeping employees very happy and enjoying very high satisfaction scores from the people who work for Apple. Then we will simply judge him based on earnings growth and price of the stock nothing else. So moving forward dont blame Trump or China or the economy if things go south. So far the stock is going down from ATH and every metric is going down. I believe he has managed the ability to produce millions of iPhones and was lucky enough to be present during the mobile revolution started by Apple not him personally. But he did it by making a deal with a country that will bite the hand that feeds it. He also increased the pricing of Apple's hit product and now sales are down in a booming economy. Smart phone adoption and switchers are no longer discussed in conference calls. Focusing on movies and services are distractions especially when they make up such a small portion of overall profits. Yes satisfaction is sky high for their products and that will keep the company healthy for many years. But there are dark clouds gathering as we see poor execution on many fronts. Look I will admit that even if the stock drops 45% from here, the present board will not fire him. His liberal views will keep him from being fired since most of the board agrees with him. But if the 5G becomes a dud and the stock stays in the $120 range come end of 2021, then we will be having a very different conversation.
|
|
chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,426
|
Post by chinacat on Jul 5, 2019 10:55:07 GMT -8
T0o many misguided liberals on this board. I'll be glad to be ignored. Go ahead and prove the close minded affairs of the left. I'll say it again. If Tim does not want to be treated differently for being gay, then stop acting like being gay somehow makes you special. Your sexual orientation is neither an achievement nor a holiday. You have not accomplished anything simply by being attracted to one sex or another. His political (politics) action in the official capacity as CEO has embarrassed the corporation in the general public mindset. Now apply the same logic to Martin Luther King: If MLK does not want to be treated differently for being black, then stop acting like being black somehow makes you special. Your race is neither an achievement nor a holiday. You have not accomplished anything simply by being one race or another. His political (politics) action in the official capacity as a minister has embarrassed the race in the general public mindset. Note: I am not comparing the social impact of Tim to MLK, merely pointing out the fallacy in the proposed “logic.”
|
|
crispin
Member
KBJ for the win. AAPL long and strong since 2000
Posts: 311
|
Post by crispin on Jul 5, 2019 11:32:22 GMT -8
A willfully ignorant person is rarely afflicted with logic or critical thought. I can’t imagine living such an incurious life. For one thing, I’d probably still be using Windows. T0o many misguided liberals on this board. I'll be glad to be ignored. Go ahead and prove the close minded affairs of the left. I'll say it again. If Tim does not want to be treated differently for being gay, then stop acting like being gay somehow makes you special. Your sexual orientation is neither an achievement nor a holiday. You have not accomplished anything simply by being attracted to one sex or another. His political (politics) action in the official capacity as CEO has embarrassed the corporation in the general public mindset. Now apply the same logic to Martin Luther King: If MLK does not want to be treated differently for being black, then stop acting like being black somehow makes you special. Your race is neither an achievement nor a holiday. You have not accomplished anything simply by being one race or another. His political (politics) action in the official capacity as a minister has embarrassed the race in the general public mindset. Note: I am not comparing the social impact of Tim to MLK, merely pointing out the fallacy in the proposed “logic.”
|
|
4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,622
|
Post by 4aapl on Jul 5, 2019 11:48:39 GMT -8
4aapl, I very much appreciate what you’re saying. Here’s my .02. I hope you don’t take it personal when I say that self moderation is an idealistic pipe dream every bit as much as would be competitive basketball games without a referee. People that claim they’re going to leave if they disagree with moderation aren’t worth having as commentators. It’s juvenile. To be sure, we can all have initial reactions to such things. But as I’ve said before, people who won’t subject themselves to moderation either aren’t mature enough to comment publicly, or maybe just don’t really appreciate the benefits enough to do it. And never discount the influence of idealistic interpersonal ideologies with a strong whiff of Utopianism that turns people into mere conduits of righteous indignation and their inner child comes out. Such ideologies no doubt driving the constant complaints about “ lack of civilized discourse” and the dread of deleting posts. Why only have deleted 1 post is a badge of honor escapes me. ... Until something changes as far as I can see saying “you’re an idiot” is acceptable here. That’s because the cost of ruling such nonsense unacceptable isn’t seen as great as the cost of endangering the mix all the idealistic romantic communitarian abstraction plates in the air, any or all of which some of us are enamored. So it goes. It's been a slow morning. Instead of enjoying the 4th, which here means battling the crowds that came up for a small mountain town and to get away from it all, I let a toilet replacement morph into removing a double tub and tile surround. I worked too hard, drank too little water, and then had a couple drinks while cooking up ribs. I wouldn't do it differently....except for not drinking enough water. Nuff said. Lovemyipad moderated posts for a while, even deleting some or throwing some off into unmentionable places. Well, maybe just uneditable places. She kept things in line, and then left it alone for 4.5 years. Things generally were ok during that timeframe, and thus the culture of self moderation. That, and we have no one here who wants to do any form of strict moderation, not that we need it most of the time. But frankly, while we've had some here for years, we only had 5 people willing to keep the board going by stepping up to be moderators, and now we're down to 3. (FWIW, on the only 1 deleted post, along with having a generally good group of posters that share a similar mindset on at least some things, it's partially a thing of moderating by a group. We found that if you delete it, it's gone. Amazing! But also a problem if you want to describe why or work on the boundaries with your cohorts, or if the said poster takes it to the board and says his post was deleted just for disagreeing, rather than for being a jackass. Instead, there are admin folders we can move things to, and at times LovemyiPad and Since84 preferred the public shaming method, letting everyone see what was actually said by the poster. Dig your own grave) Anyways... This Apple and AAPL board has been helpful over the years, especially at certain times of doubt, whether near the bottom or top. If we want to keep it that way, keep it civil. Like differing ref techniques, there's times you let it play, and others where you are strict to hold it all together. I think we can generally keep in mind that this is a useful place where we have a shared interest. Think before you post.
|
|
|
Post by artman1033 on Jul 5, 2019 12:16:53 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Luckychoices on Jul 5, 2019 12:36:57 GMT -8
Tim Cook has achieved much in his time at Apple, for Apple, AAPL and well beyond. And, oh yeah, he’s gay...... And that’s his right and just the way he is. Thats right Benoir. But its not his Corporation its the stockholders and it does not belong to the 1 point whatever % of the general population that consider themselves lgbt. If Tim does not want to be treated differently for being gay, then stop acting like being gay somehow makes you special. Sorry, macster, but the link(s) you surely meant to provide to give examples of Tim Cook's aberrant behavior, didn't show up in your post. Please repost your comment with the appropriate link(s). TIA Your sexual orientation is neither an achievement nor a holiday. You have not accomplished anything simply by being attracted to one sex or another. His political (politics) action in the official capacity as CEO has embarrassed the corporation in the general public mindset.Yeah, don't ya just hate it when a person in a position of authority *embarrasses* the people he or she represents? I know I do. Note: Reposting because I accidentally posted in yesterday's thread
|
|
|
Post by silkstone on Jul 5, 2019 12:43:44 GMT -8
Then we will simply judge him based on earnings growth and price of the stock nothing else. So moving forward dont blame Trump or China or the economy if things go south. So far the stock is going down from ATH and every metric is going down. I believe he has managed the ability to produce millions of iPhones and was lucky enough to be present during the mobile revolution started by Apple not him personally. But he did it by making a deal with a country that will bite the hand that feeds it. He also increased the pricing of Apple's hit product and now sales are down in a booming economy. Smart phone adoption and switchers are no longer discussed in conference calls. Focusing on movies and services are distractions especially when they make up such a small portion of overall profits. Yes satisfaction is sky high for their products and that will keep the company healthy for many years. But there are dark clouds gathering as we see poor execution on many fronts. Look I will admit that even if the stock drops 45% from here, the present board will not fire him. His liberal views will keep him from being fired since most of the board agrees with him. But if the 5G becomes a dud and the stock stays in the $120 range come end of 2021, then we will be having a very different conversation.
|
|
|
Post by silkstone on Jul 5, 2019 12:55:53 GMT -8
Pretty sure Tim is not being kept around because of his liberal views. If you believe that then you don’t know how big business decisions are made. He’s being kept because he’s a great CEO on many levels and his decision skills have proven to be superior. Yes, smartphone growth has slacked off tremendously but the installed base is growing every year and the obvious focus should be and is to monetize it with great services which Apple seems to be doing very well. Services are growing near 18-20% per year, it is now the size of a fortune 100 company with some experts predicting $100 billion/yr within three years. But yes, if the trade war escalated and a world wide recession was the result, all ships would go down and yes, rightly or wrongly, we would all know who to blame.
|
|
4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,622
|
Post by 4aapl on Jul 5, 2019 13:07:57 GMT -8
Hey Silkstone (Welcome! Though you joined a few years ago, I don't remember you posting), did you mean to add something to that post? It looks like that is the 2nd one that only had quoted material.
For your own posts, you can click edit and change things after the fact. You can also delete your own posts, whether you double post or decide for some reason you don't want it around.
The moderators generally don't edit or delete posts, though we will sometimes move ones that shouldn't belong in the daily thread. But frankly even being retired, it's summer time and we have 3 young kids to keep up with, house projects to do, trips planned, and relatives and friends stopping by. Plus I need to get out onto the trails, for exercise and to lead trail work after a 150% snow fall year.
So we generally try to self-moderate. Even if some don't believe it's possible, it has been what has generally worked here for the past 5 years.
Thanks for joining in on the thread!
|
|
chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,426
|
Post by chinacat on Jul 5, 2019 13:52:33 GMT -8
Too bad about that last half hour
|
|
|
Post by gtrplyr on Jul 5, 2019 15:57:37 GMT -8
Wrote something and decided to delete it
Instead of writing anything negative I will choose to focus on something positive.
I could not be prouder of the way Tim Cook has run this company. The ethics that Apple as a company stand behind are a testament to Tim’s leadership.
Anyone paying attention knows how this company stands on many hot button issues. Speaking for myself, I could not invest in a company that had morals and corporate ethics that contrast my own, lucky for me it’s not an issue with Apple.
Everyone has to make that decision for themselves.
Go Tim Go Apple
Cheers to the longs
|
|
|
Post by pauls on Jul 5, 2019 16:43:46 GMT -8
An APPL investor board is a very odd place to choose to get on a right-wing, anti-liberal, homophobic soapbox. And then, (LOL), let us all know how Steve Jobs would feel about things. And then you have a moderator trolling with Chik Fil A support (a company famous for generously donating to anti-LGBTQ groups). Anything to own the libs, haha.
|
|
|
Post by firestorm on Jul 5, 2019 18:22:25 GMT -8
I have never spent a dime there and never will, but what does this have to do with Apple?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 19:15:44 GMT -8
4aapl: I understand you’ve had different moderating policies. Based on the what’s been said, possibly mistakenly, I was under the assumption the current mods didn’t now want a strict moderator and wouldn’t accept one. But maybe that was wrong. If I knew you’d accept a strict moderator if one happened to step up then that’s a whole different matter.
On the T Cook thing, Occam’s razor. If one thinks it’s not relevant go with the simplest explanation. I think the sexual orientation = race is nonsense, but on an AAPL board it’s just not a valid topic of conversation since it’s been run by a gay man for quite some time, right or wrong. So I regard it as off-topic here. I don’t need to make moral judgments about those who disagree with him running the company for that reason. I have no reason to impute bigotry.
And let’s not be naive. If Tim Cook were a racist we’d be fine with him running the company as long as his personal views were insulated from company policies and decisions and would give him a pass on it even if we wouldn’t have a friend as s bigot.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 19:37:17 GMT -8
I think the lack of comment threading is a systemic issue that probably is responsible for adding more frustration than people realize. On most comment platforms there is threading that tends to lump discussions together in natural clusters that tend to clump by subtopic and make it easier to skim over stuff you’re not interested in. The platform is just so crude by today’s standards. A linear list is so unsuited for comments.
|
|