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Post by pauls on Aug 5, 2019 9:22:18 GMT -8
The selling continues It looks like we will get my 7% flush early. It is interesting but not surprising that most socialists on this board blame Trump for this selloff and defend, support, and root for the communist China. I blame TC for making a deal with them that is now coming back to bite his company. Had we developed manufacturing in other countries our stock would be trading more inline with MSFT right now. Still very content to be in cash. Plenty of time to make money on puts and calls in the next 30 days. Now I look forward to Trump slapping another 15% tariffs in Nov. so TC will finally get the message to move manufacturing out instead of claiming in conference calls that everything will be fine. Socialists? Lol. Looks like a bunch of concerned capitalists to me. Nice trolling, though. This board has finally been wrestled away from garden variety APPL investors by the right.
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,649
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Post by 4aapl on Aug 5, 2019 9:39:18 GMT -8
It's particularly easy to let your emotions run wild on a day like today, being a little more harsh than you normally would.
Think a second time before throwing insults that pull apart the board. Use the dungeon for non-AAPL specific political posts.
While tough, such is life sometimes. But remember, temporary changes in valuation are much less of a problem than other tough life problems.
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Post by silkstone on Aug 5, 2019 9:59:07 GMT -8
Question: Why is it that some people love taxes and regulations but hate tariffs? First of all it’s not about love. Regulations are good when they protect people from coroporate greed and the desire to make money even if you’re destroyng natural habitat of wild species for example or polluting the environment. So smart regulation, rules and laws put in place to protect people is good. Taxes are necessary to run a country with over 330 million people, they fund roads, bridges, parks, social programs, salaries of government workers, etc. Tarriffs are and have been used to punish economic competitors, they have a history of failing and they are capable of starting the next recession. The way you beat your competitors is not by saying.....okay, I’m losing so I’m taking my ball home and nobody can play. The answer is plain and simple, by out thinking, out planning, out working, and out investing them. So it’s not about hate, tariffs are just effing stupid and short sighted. Like Apple, China plays the long game. It’s the way to win.
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stub
Member
The fix is in. Be patient. Don't panic.
Posts: 300
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Post by stub on Aug 5, 2019 10:05:07 GMT -8
heh, heh...
remember stock buy backs? that's what this induced senseless volatility is all about, whatever excuse they use.
Kinda suspicious that this is happening right around the time of ERs and the auto re-investments of dividends. Ehh?
My guess is, when this short season is over we'll have some kind of "magical" recovery. No reason needed.
Don't stress.
It would be nice to touch the ATH territory again before the end of the year.
Isn't that what Gene Munster said about 9 months ago?
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Post by silkstone on Aug 5, 2019 10:08:43 GMT -8
The selling continues It looks like we will get my 7% flush early. It is interesting but not surprising that most socialists on this board blame Trump for this selloff and defend, support, and root for the communist China. I blame TC for making a deal with them that is now coming back to bite his company. Had we developed manufacturing in other countries our stock would be trading more inline with MSFT right now. Still very content to be in cash. Plenty of time to make money on puts and calls in the next 30 days. Now I look forward to Trump slapping another 15% tariffs in Nov. so TC will finally get the message to move manufacturing out instead of claiming in conference calls that everything will be fine. Yea but cash ain’t making any money so what are you waiting for, man up and invest. Anybody who has good advice for how the most successful company in history should be run is obviously smart enough to make a little money. Make sure to get your timing right and as the afb know it all, I’m sure you will.
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chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,431
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Post by chinacat on Aug 5, 2019 10:23:09 GMT -8
I sold all aapl shares and leaps last Friday. I’m still holding amzn leaps which are in the red, wishing that I had also sold them. Once the amazon leaps start to green up some they’ll likely be sold too. Take the money and run. Thank you for your prompt reply. Our Apple investment began almost as a lark when we experienced a small windfall some years ago, and is now a little over 8 times as large, which is not as good as some others in the forum, but has made our retirement very comfortable, especially with the dividend growth. Our IRAs and taxable savings account are professionally managed, and they have given up asking us to let them also manage our Apple-dedicated funds.
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stub
Member
The fix is in. Be patient. Don't panic.
Posts: 300
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Post by stub on Aug 5, 2019 10:49:39 GMT -8
While your example makes sense, it's also a bit simplistic. Everyone on this board understands the importance of China's markets with the obvious example being Apple. Apple's products/services just got more expensive for the average Chinese consumer. Wanna go ask some farmers who pays the tariffs? This is a losing game for BOTH sides ... the big question is who can take more pain and I'd say the jury is out of that one BUT the Chinese do not have a major election coming up next year. I'd also argue that the average Chinese citizen is very used to going without .... anyone really into this game of financial chicken? Thanks for the reply. Seems every import from any country just got more expensive in China as the juan was devalued. The US has and has had a significant trade deficit with China as much the rest of the industrialized nations. Not sure who has the most leverage at this time, I am not an economist by any stretch of imagination. Allow me... the country that lowers it's currency value gets more $ coming in, because everything is on sale. Then later when nobody's lookin', they raise it back up. This stimulates buying and selling between countries. Volatility isn't just for stocks anymore, currencies are getting in the game too, but more to stimulate cash flow than to capitalize on value conversions. So, this is actually a win/win that's advertised as a lose/lose, so that small investor man will panic sell and play right into the big guy's hands. Now you know. So don't avert your eyes, pay attention, this is an investor learning experience.
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stub
Member
The fix is in. Be patient. Don't panic.
Posts: 300
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Post by stub on Aug 5, 2019 11:13:06 GMT -8
Question: Why is it that some people love taxes and regulations but hate tariffs? First of all it’s not about love. Regulations are good when they protect people from coroporate greed and the desire to make money even if you’re destroyng natural habitat of wild species for example or polluting the environment. So smart regulation, rules and laws put in place to protect people is good. Taxes are necessary to run a country with over 330 million people, they fund roads, bridges, parks, social programs, salaries of government workers, etc. Tarriffs are and have been used to punish economic competitors, they have a history of failing and they are capable of starting the next recession. The way you beat your competitors is not by saying.....okay, I’m losing so I’m taking my ball home and nobody can play. The answer is plain and simple, by out thinking, out planning, out working, and out investing them. So it’s not about hate, tariffs are just effing stupid and short sighted. Like Apple, China plays the long game. It’s the way to win. that's true for State and Local taxes but... as far as Federal taxes go, we don't even need to pay ANY Fed taxes because our US $ is created out of thin air by a private Bank called the US Federal Reserve Bank (which is about as Federal as Federal Express). As in, contrary to popular belief, it's not a part of the US Gov't. It is owned by 3 subsidiaries of the Bank of England (also a private Bank, established in 1694) and people like Rockefeller, Morgan, Aldrige, Schiff, Warburg, Vanderlip, Strong, and some others who are more obscure. It creates US dollars out of thin air and lends it to the US Gov't @ 6% interest/year. (btw, yes, your right if you've figured out that the debt can theoretically never be paid back) The US Federal Reserve Bank started in 1913 and started having us pay a 1% annual income tax. (have ya noticed, it's gone up a bit over the years) The real reason the US Federal Reserve Bank created the Federal income tax was actually to prevent counterfeiting (that's THEIR job). Now ya know, spread the word.
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Ted
fire starter
Posts: 882
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Post by Ted on Aug 5, 2019 11:22:46 GMT -8
We would be at $250 now if not for the orange occupant and his nonsense. Re: tariffs and the self-inflicted trade "war" - China is not going to lose, they take the long approach, and even if it appears they might be losing/compromising, in reality they won't be. They have more patience and tools at their disposal, and the last thing they will do is lose face to drumpf. ANOTHER great post by the lady ems................ (can't stop calling POTUS names?) AS a college educated lady, perhaps you can educate us. What approach works with trade with China? Which POTUS in the last 100 years did it best? So what if she's a "lady?" ANOTHER great post by Global Moderator, Sir artman. 🙄
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Post by dreamRaj on Aug 5, 2019 11:28:49 GMT -8
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Post by pauls on Aug 5, 2019 11:33:16 GMT -8
ANOTHER great post by the lady ems................ (can't stop calling POTUS names?) AS a college educated lady, perhaps you can educate us. What approach works with trade with China? Which POTUS in the last 100 years did it best? So what if she's a "lady?" ANOTHER great post by Global Moderator, Sir artman. 🙄 Global troll
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Post by dreamRaj on Aug 5, 2019 11:36:43 GMT -8
I know anything's possible on Wall St, but with what's happening today (AAPL at -$11, Dow at -880 right now), is it even possible for AAPL to have a good green day this week?
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Post by silkstone on Aug 5, 2019 11:44:18 GMT -8
First of all it’s not about love. Regulations are good when they protect people from coroporate greed and the desire to make money even if you’re destroyng natural habitat of wild species for example or polluting the environment. So smart regulation, rules and laws put in place to protect people is good. Taxes are necessary to run a country with over 330 million people, they fund roads, bridges, parks, social programs, salaries of government workers, etc. Tarriffs are and have been used to punish economic competitors, they have a history of failing and they are capable of starting the next recession. The way you beat your competitors is not by saying.....okay, I’m losing so I’m taking my ball home and nobody can play. The answer is plain and simple, by out thinking, out planning, out working, and out investing them. So it’s not about hate, tariffs are just effing stupid and short sighted. Like Apple, China plays the long game. It’s the way to win. We that's true for State and Local taxes but... as far as Federal taxes go, we don't even need to pay ANY Fed taxes because our US $ is created out of thin air by a private Bank called the US Federal Reserve Bank (which is about as Federal as Federal Express). As in, contrary to popular belief, it's not a part of the US Gov't. It is owned by 3 subsidiaries of the Bank of England (also a private Bank, established in 1694) and people like Rockefeller, Morgan, Aldrige, Schiff, Warburg, Vanderlip, Strong, and some others who are more obscure. It creates US dollars out of thin air and lends it to the US Gov't @ 6% interest/year. (btw, yes, your right if you've figured out that the debt can theoretically never be paid back) The US Federal Reserve Bank started in 1913 and started having us pay a 1% annual income tax. (have ya noticed, it's gone up a bit over the years) The real reason the US Federal Reserve Bank created the Federal income tax was actually to prevent counterfeiting (that's THEIR job). Now ya know, spread the word. Well, my point was that taxes are necessary to run the country. And yes, some of the revenue goes toward paying the debt. Now ya know.
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Post by therealmercel on Aug 5, 2019 12:00:54 GMT -8
Trump needs a trade deal more than China, if he wants a "stay out of jail" card that comes with re-election. The simple fact: We are one tweet away from a reversal. When will that come? I would PAY for that piece of intel. And you cannot chart that!
I suspect the damage is done, but who knows. I BTFD again.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,186
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Post by JDSoCal on Aug 5, 2019 12:10:45 GMT -8
We would be at $250 now if not for the orange occupant and his nonsense. Re: tariffs and the self-inflicted trade "war" - China is not going to lose, they take the long approach, and even if it appears they might be losing/compromising, in reality they won't be. They have more patience and tools at their disposal, and the last thing they will do is lose face to drumpf. This is absolutely false. China might generally take a long view on policy, but it could afford to so long as the US just lied down and spread its cheeks. Among the ChiCom's biggest fears is social unrest due to economic hard times. Anyone who knows anything about China knows this. The ChiComs are terrified of social unrest and revolution, since the entire party is based on that. Our stocks are down, all unrealized losses. But if their citizens start losing jobs and their companies start losing markets for their goods, who is hurt more? I know one thing, the Chinese are looking to see if DJT blinks right now. So be careful what tweets you are wishing for! Oh, and for the "American consumers pay tariffs" crowd, does that work for corporate tax rates too? Or are liberal economics magical and have special rules for social justice purposes? It's sad how little sacrifice Americans are willing to endure for patriotic reasons. During WWII people rationed goods for years, and sent hundreds of thousands of their best men over to die and be maimed for their country. Today your stocks are down a bit (AAPL still up well over 50% since DJT has been in office) and you're crying like babies. God forbid we ever had a real existential crisis!
Stop whining and buy the F-ing dip people. Fire sale!
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Post by sponge on Aug 5, 2019 12:11:02 GMT -8
There is a gap that should be filled at 179.
Did not like how we ended. RSI at 36 still leave plenty of room for a strong flush this week. Wanted to buy at 198 tomorrow after 208 became a distant memory. But we just slowly deflated. Now will look to see if we can get over 195 tomorrow or Wednesday.
MFI also has plenty of downside left. SPY on the other hand may go positive tomorrow on MFI
Will watch and if I miss this boat I will get on the bullish one in about three weeks.
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,113
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Post by Dave on Aug 5, 2019 12:15:04 GMT -8
We that's true for State and Local taxes but... as far as Federal taxes go, we don't even need to pay ANY Fed taxes because our US $ is created out of thin air by a private Bank called the US Federal Reserve Bank (which is about as Federal as Federal Express). As in, contrary to popular belief, it's not a part of the US Gov't. It is owned by 3 subsidiaries of the Bank of England (also a private Bank, established in 1694) and people like Rockefeller, Morgan, Aldrige, Schiff, Warburg, Vanderlip, Strong, and some others who are more obscure. It creates US dollars out of thin air and lends it to the US Gov't @ 6% interest/year. (btw, yes, your right if you've figured out that the debt can theoretically never be paid back) The US Federal Reserve Bank started in 1913 and started having us pay a 1% annual income tax. (have ya noticed, it's gone up a bit over the years) The real reason the US Federal Reserve Bank created the Federal income tax was actually to prevent counterfeiting (that's THEIR job). Now ya know, spread the word. Well, my point was that taxes are necessary to run the country. And yes, some of the revenue goes toward paying the debt. Now ya know. And the point of my question was to show that tariffs are also taxes that other countries must pay for access to our markets. Until the federal income tax was implemented our federal government was funded with import tariffs. Do you realize that China also had a import tariff on American goods long before POTUS was elected. He's just trying to make a level playing field.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,186
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Post by JDSoCal on Aug 5, 2019 12:28:11 GMT -8
The selling continues It looks like we will get my 7% flush early. It is interesting but not surprising that most socialists on this board blame Trump for this selloff and defend, support, and root for the communist China. I blame TC for making a deal with them that is now coming back to bite his company. Had we developed manufacturing in other countries our stock would be trading more inline with MSFT right now. Still very content to be in cash. Plenty of time to make money on puts and calls in the next 30 days. Now I look forward to Trump slapping another 15% tariffs in Nov. so TC will finally get the message to move manufacturing out instead of claiming in conference calls that everything will be fine. Socialists? Lol. Looks like a bunch of concerned capitalists to me. Nice trolling, though. This board has finally been wrestled away from garden variety APPL investors by the right. OK if you even read this board for a day you know that Sponge doesn't speak for the board (I've had him on block for two years and the only time I even see his posts when you guys bite and quote him). Seems like a lot of you are drawn to those you claim to disagree with like moth to flame. But I find it HILARIOUS that tariffs and protectionism are now evidence of a right wing takeover? More like evidence that anything Trump does is bad (Trump Cures Cancer: Oncologists Hardest Hit). And evidence of how liberal principles are quite negotiable when your own net worth is at stake! Like when Bernie fired union organizers from his campaign. FFS, the left has railed on Chinese economic predation for decades!
Look people, my net worth is down 7 figures this week, and I'm not crying or throwing a tantrum. You might not agree with the ends or even the means, but IMO Trump is taking a page out of the Nixon "mad bomber" playbook. If you have an ounce of intellectual honesty you have to admit he's got the ChiCom's scared. Their entire party is based on the fact that Communism is superior to Capitalism. This makes them look like total impotent fools domestically. You think the average Chinese people are looking at our stock market right now, or their own economic woes?
FOR THE RECORD I have come on here three times in the past 7 days looking for Apple news, and all I've gotten are political rants. So don't hate on me, my liberal friends (actually there are some people's hate I'd miss ).
Buy the dip people. If not today, this week. Thank me later.
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stub
Member
The fix is in. Be patient. Don't panic.
Posts: 300
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Post by stub on Aug 5, 2019 12:42:10 GMT -8
We that's true for State and Local taxes but... as far as Federal taxes go, we don't even need to pay ANY Fed taxes because our US $ is created out of thin air by a private Bank called the US Federal Reserve Bank (which is about as Federal as Federal Express). As in, contrary to popular belief, it's not a part of the US Gov't. It is owned by 3 subsidiaries of the Bank of England (also a private Bank, established in 1694) and people like Rockefeller, Morgan, Aldrige, Schiff, Warburg, Vanderlip, Strong, and some others who are more obscure. It creates US dollars out of thin air and lends it to the US Gov't @ 6% interest/year. (btw, yes, your right if you've figured out that the debt can theoretically never be paid back) The US Federal Reserve Bank started in 1913 and started having us pay a 1% annual income tax. (have ya noticed, it's gone up a bit over the years) The real reason the US Federal Reserve Bank created the Federal income tax was actually to prevent counterfeiting (that's THEIR job). Now ya know, spread the word. Well, my point was that taxes are necessary to run the country. And yes, some of the revenue goes toward paying the debt. Now ya know. Right, some of it (technically) does go to pay back the debt, but do you see how absurd that is when you realize that we are paying back a bunch of guys who are creating $ out of thin air?
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,113
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Post by Dave on Aug 5, 2019 12:58:17 GMT -8
Stop whining and buy the F-ing dip people. Fire sale! That works for me!
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Post by pauls on Aug 5, 2019 13:16:35 GMT -8
Socialists? Lol. Looks like a bunch of concerned capitalists to me. Nice trolling, though. This board has finally been wrestled away from garden variety APPL investors by the right. OK if you even read this board for a day you know that Sponge doesn't speak for the board (I've had him on block for two years and the only time I even see his posts when you guys bite and quote him). Seems like a lot of you are drawn to those you claim to disagree with like moth to flame. But I find it HILARIOUS that tariffs and protectionism are now evidence of a right wing takeover? More like evidence that anything Trump does is bad (Trump Cures Cancer: Oncologists Hardest Hit). And evidence of how liberal principles are quite negotiable when your own net worth is at stake! Like when Bernie fired union organizers from his campaign. FFS, the left has railed on Chinese economic predation for decades!
Look people, my net worth is down 7 figures this week, and I'm not crying or throwing a tantrum. You might not agree with the ends or even the means, but IMO Trump is taking a page out of the Nixon "mad bomber" playbook. If you have an ounce of intellectual honesty you have to admit he's got the ChiCom's scared. Their entire party is based on the fact that Communism is superior to Capitalism. This makes them look like total impotent fools domestically. You think the average Chinese people are looking at our stock market right now, or their own economic woes?
FOR THE RECORD I have come on here three times in the past 7 days looking for Apple news, and all I've gotten are political rants. So don't hate on me, my liberal friends (actually there are some people's hate I'd miss ).
Buy the dip people. If not today, this week. Thank me later.
Thank you for your sacrifice. Sorry for your paper loss. All of us longs have our fair share. I’m not particularly concerned- I had/have no plans to sell shares. I think we will be made whole at some point. Others won’t be so lucky. F@ck em. I do think that this trade war is being waged poorly, which is what it is. I think Trump will feel the pain in 2020, his own ‘personal’ WWII (as opposed to his infamous personal Viet Nam). The day that he figures out he can’t win reelection, expect some market unfriendly tweets. Operation ‘Blame it on the Dems’ will be in full swing.
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Post by sponge on Aug 5, 2019 14:10:59 GMT -8
And further down we go. The war continues.
Good to be in cash. Since I think we can drop another 5-6% I will get in tomorrow for a small 200% gain.
Wait until next year when China really goes after Apple to bring the market down.
They need to bring the market down if they want to get at Trump.
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Post by therealmercel on Aug 5, 2019 14:12:29 GMT -8
AAPL is tanking in the AH, thanks to Treasury labeling China a currency manipulator.
Reports are that Trump ignored all his people last week re: latest round of tariffs, except for Peter Navarro, who seems intent on crashing the stock market.
Get ready for a big dump tomorrow (or even flash crash).
I'm not panicking, and I'm done buying this dip.
The reality is that Trump had a great economy (ignoring concerns about the national debt) and is on a fast track to lose it. Can't wait for the next tweet from Trump to the effect "No one knows more about the economy than I do..."
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,649
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Post by 4aapl on Aug 5, 2019 14:23:15 GMT -8
I know anything's possible on Wall St, but with what's happening today (AAPL at -$11, Dow at -880 right now), is it even possible for AAPL to have a good green day this week? Visitor to a kid in the tropics: "Does it ever stop raining here?" Kid: "I don't know, I'm only 11" I'd bet for a green day this week for AAPL, even a goodish green day. Without further escalation this week, my guess would be for a 2.5-3 day cycle, similar to some of the Brexit worries. IMO we'll see another down day almost as bad as today, and then a bad start on Wednesday, with recovery by the end of the day or on Thursday. Am I betting on it? Not yet, but I'd be willing to buy a little something, soon. I had picked up some shares at 185 on the way down last year, and can justify picking up some more even though I would borrow to do so....though I'd prefer to wait until the stock is headed back up. IMO that is soonish. RSI on AAPL rarely gets below 30, but there's enough fear here that I can see it touching below that level, especially if Apple ends up even more in the crossroads. Like the market sometimes, it's not logical (that China would lash out at Apple), but that doesn't mean it won't happen. We'll see. But my bet it on a 3 day cycle if further action doesn't interfere....this time. Then the question is how the uncertainly plays out in the often positive lead-out to the next iPhone sales.
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Post by longsince98 on Aug 5, 2019 17:06:01 GMT -8
Stop whining and buy the F-ing dip people. Fire sale! That works for me! incredible buying opportunity. it’s all these recurring dips which have historically let me accumulate so much. I’m too leveraged to comfortably do so this time, but wish I could join you.
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Post by sponge on Aug 5, 2019 17:25:56 GMT -8
Well some TA folks are now saying that if we break 178 then we will go straight down to 170.
I think tomorrow will be worse then today. Given how we closed in AH we may open 3% down and then drop 10% total.
One more quick flush on Wed and then we should shoot straight back up because RSI would be well into oversold territory.
So there is a rare opportunity to make money on puts and calls in the next two weeks. Setting up to close between 185-190 by OE.
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Post by sponge on Aug 5, 2019 17:27:15 GMT -8
That works for me! incredible buying opportunity. it’s all these recurring dips which have historically let me accumulate so much. I’m too leveraged to comfortably do so this time, but wish I could join you. I am telling you guys to wait until then fall for a fire sale. Too soon now if you want to buy and hold for more then 6 months.
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Post by gtrplyr on Aug 5, 2019 17:41:17 GMT -8
BREAKING NOW:
China sets midpoint of Yuan over $7
Here's hoping that gives us a little bounce tomorrow.
Cheers to the longs ....
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Post by longsince98 on Aug 5, 2019 17:57:42 GMT -8
BREAKING NOW: China sets midpoint of Yuan over $7 Here's hoping that gives us a little bounce tomorrow. Cheers to the longs .... do you know how that compares to Friday, and compared to what the markets expecting? thanks
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Post by gtrplyr on Aug 5, 2019 18:05:05 GMT -8
BREAKING NOW: China sets midpoint of Yuan over $7 Here's hoping that gives us a little bounce tomorrow. Cheers to the longs .... do you know how that compares to Friday, and compared to what the markets expecting? thanks Well it seems like markets like it ... $7 was the line in the sand and China is defending this. Let's see what tomorrow holds ... gotta admit this currency stuff is really not something I'm very educated in .... BUT .... futures have started to reverse and so I'm hoping for that bounce ... maybe someone with some experience in this will chime in.
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