chinacat
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Post by chinacat on Aug 23, 2019 4:14:52 GMT -8
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Post by dreamRaj on Aug 23, 2019 4:59:54 GMT -8
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Post by dreamRaj on Aug 23, 2019 5:04:09 GMT -8
Is it only me or does it seem like the reaction to the trade war is slowly mellowing down?
It is becoming an old story now.
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walterwhite
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"I am the one who knocks!"... Albuquerque, NM
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Post by walterwhite on Aug 23, 2019 5:37:27 GMT -8
Is it only me or does it seem like the reaction to the trade war is slowly mellowing down? It is becoming an old story now. it's only you... mellowing down?! aapl was trading at $217 day after earnings (july 31), then a few trump tweets and escalation it got to $193 in 3 trading days. An 11% drop in 3 trading days on trade war alone! note that it's over $90b market cap swing... i.e. 3 times more than the *entire* 10% tariffs on $300b of chinese goods that trump decided to engage, $30b for those counting - from one company... as soon as trump put out new tariffs on the table in the middle of negotiation, chinese retaliation was predictable and inevitable... postponing form september to december helped but did not fix it. and aapl for sure would be at ath's by now if not for trade war. good luck to longs... fed coming this afternoon, perhaps another shoe to drop
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Post by gtrplyr on Aug 23, 2019 7:06:24 GMT -8
We were starting to recover and now .... tweet storm.
No words ... just unbelievably irrational and poor behavior to call out the chairman of the fed and question his loyalty to the US.
"Ordering companies to find an alternative to China" ... WTF?
This is not sitting well with WS ....
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Post by gtrplyr on Aug 23, 2019 7:13:14 GMT -8
This drop is NOT China ... it's NOT Powell .... Its Donald Trump. Period.
Yes this belongs in the interlay thread because we are now down over $7 and it's directly the result of his stupid Twitter nonsense .
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walterwhite
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"I am the one who knocks!"... Albuquerque, NM
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Post by walterwhite on Aug 23, 2019 7:13:32 GMT -8
We were starting to recover and now .... tweet storm. No words ... just unbelievably irrational and poor behavior to call out the chairman of the fed and question his loyalty to the US.
insane...
'My only question is, who is our bigger enemy, Jay Powell or Chairman Xi?'
hey local trumpies - do you realize trump's desire to control the fed is to have a centrally-planned economy like china and ussr?! oh the irony...
trump just outright said he prefers a COMMUNIST DICTATOR (as our global moderator artman would say) to a capitalist american civil servant conclusion: trump is a traitor of democracy and america
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walterwhite
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"I am the one who knocks!"... Albuquerque, NM
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Post by walterwhite on Aug 23, 2019 7:18:11 GMT -8
This drop is NOT China ... it's NOT Powell .... Its Donald Trump. Period. Yes this belongs in the interlay thread because we are now down over $7 and it's directly the result of his stupid Twitter nonsense .
agree. stocks dropped on china retaliation but nearly recovered before the tweetstorm.
double-whammy... both trump-caused:
1. insinuate that fed chairmain is a bigger 'enemy' than chinese dictator (soon trump will bring 'enemy of the people' language back... then the gulags)
2. turn around and tell american companies what to do with their capital and supply chain
Trump is going full Mao/Stalin... the logical conclusion with the narcissistic assclown.
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walterwhite
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Post by walterwhite on Aug 23, 2019 7:26:46 GMT -8
US total market cap is 30 trillion... stocks dropping 1.3% on tweetstorm is a $390 BILLION loss of wealth in a couple of minutes... greater than 10 YEARS of tariffs that our Dear Leader wants to secure from china...
as for AAPL, it's become impossible to trade... maybe the nimble ones here sell after every positive meeting with tim cook and buy back after every tweetstorm... you're a better trader than me... i've been trying to get out of a few positions since may 1st.
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chinacat
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Post by chinacat on Aug 23, 2019 7:30:10 GMT -8
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Post by gtrplyr on Aug 23, 2019 7:59:37 GMT -8
China announces new tariffs, our Fed responds and the markets recover .... this shows China our markets have confidence and your Tariff threats are not working. So now the President calls out the Chairman of the Fed and flexes his hubris only to make our own markets sink .... what does that show China???
Donald has no idea how to negotiate nor run a business. He understands nothing about negotiating from a point of strength and knows little about the culture he is negotiating with .... threats like this do NOT help and he won't intimidate a country like he intimidated everyone that worked for his companies in the past.
THIS is the thing we should all be scared of .... the problems with trade and China need to be addressed but preferably by adults who understand how business works instead of this juvenile behavior with school yard threats.
Anyone with any sense of business has to be watching his actions with disbelief. Hopefully this will send some clear messages to the administration but anyone left there with any shred of competence is surely trying to abandon the titanic.
EDIT: Adding ... go and listen to Powell's comments ... they are reassuring and confident. I'm not sure why in the hell that would cause Donald to freak out? Other than the fact he understands NOTHING.
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Post by firestorm on Aug 23, 2019 8:26:46 GMT -8
"Trade wars are easy to win."
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chinacat
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Post by chinacat on Aug 23, 2019 8:29:19 GMT -8
Gruber this week referenced this 1981 Nightline interview with Steve Jobs. The young'uns on the board will be amused by the limited capacity of the machines in that time and the concerns (not that they were completely off base) expressed about the increasing role of computers in society, while the elders among us (raises hand) will treasure the interview with Jobs when Apple was in its infancy. Enjoy
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macster
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Post by macster on Aug 23, 2019 8:40:06 GMT -8
The Fed was working independently from the Administration's China trade policy. The Fed cooled the economy expecting business as usual attacking nonexistent inflation by raising rates. But again, strong China leadership over decades is the reason for the season and weak US leadership over the same period. We let China raid the candy store for 30 years and look what happens. Who suggest there are other options China would adopt to stop their addiction stealing 500 billion and precious American Intellectual Property theft which estimate around $225 billion plus.
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Post by gtrplyr on Aug 23, 2019 8:46:55 GMT -8
The Fed was working independently from the Administration's China trade policy. The Fed cooled the economy expecting business as usual attacking nonexistent inflation by raising rates. But again, strong China leadership over decades is the reason for the season and weak US leadership over the same period. We let China raid the candy store for 30 years and look what happens. Who suggest there are other options China would adopt to stop their addiction stealing 500 billion and precious American Intellectual Property theft which estimate around $225 billion plus. I hate to break the news to you but the FED is and has been an independent body. They are not there to serve at the beck and call of the President. Understanding that is basic civics. Keep defending the behavior .... I guess you think the President can tell companies how to do business ... where to manufacture? What you are suggesting sounds like the very thing China does. I don't understand your stance on this and never will ...
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ono
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compensation
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Post by ono on Aug 23, 2019 8:59:02 GMT -8
Who suggest there are other options This (I previously posted here or PED at one point): There were about 11 companies that were concerned about taking the first steps to moving away from China, as each did big business and didn’t wish to be retaliated against if they acted individually. Thus, [Lifted from a comment I saw] the grand strategy … was to get all of our ducks in a row BEFORE confronting China on trade. The first step was to get the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) going, which would have alerted countries like Vietnam, Indonesia and the Philippines to get going on infrastructure improvements…..all necessary before factories can be built. Then, the American companies manufacturing in China were supposed to begin the process of gradually transferring their business to these other countries.
Meanwhile, our diplomats and State Department was supposed to get busy selling our European, Latin American and Canadian allies on this grand strategy……
Then someone… trashed the State Department……driving away many of our trade experts…..and junked the TPP.
See comment posted with the previous related article. There was concerted international teamwork implementing a strategy to diversify trade power, away from China.This option was planned, strategic, had world partners and corporations on board (likely most/all FANGS had input).
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Post by firestorm on Aug 23, 2019 9:03:52 GMT -8
Everybody realizes that China's theft of intellectual property is a real problem, but a mature leader would have worked to quietly negotiate a better outcome. General Motors and Ford together sell nearly four million vehicles yearly in China, and that will now be at risk, probably permanently. Soybean farmers and other farmers are losing farms because of China, but most of them voted for trump so they are getting what they wanted. Walmart customers are or will soon be seeing much higher prices on Chinese imports, since customers ultimately pay for tariffs. Apple's Chinese sales will be at risk, so expect a dramatic decline in stock price. I think our economy is at great risk because of trump's tactics in this trade war. The Fed was working independently from the Administration's China trade policy. The Fed cooled the economy expecting business as usual attacking nonexistent inflation by raising rates. But again, strong China leadership over decades is the reason for the season and weak US leadership over the same period. We let China raid the candy store for 30 years and look what happens. Who suggest there are other options China would adopt to stop their addiction stealing 500 billion and precious American Intellectual Property theft which estimate around $225 billion plus.
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walterwhite
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Post by walterwhite on Aug 23, 2019 9:23:20 GMT -8
Keep defending the behavior .... I guess you think the President can tell companies how to do business ... where to manufacture? What you are suggesting sounds like the very thing China does. I don't understand your stance on this and never will ... it's ok because our Dear Leader uses FANCY words on twitter you see! "Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing.." "hereby"... oooo! also, companies are "ordered"... it's an ORDER from Mao/Stalin - didn't you see? 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 not enough eyerolls in all of the interwebs to express disbelief and disgust at the moron-in-chief.
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Post by gtrplyr on Aug 23, 2019 9:28:55 GMT -8
Keep defending the behavior .... I guess you think the President can tell companies how to do business ... where to manufacture? What you are suggesting sounds like the very thing China does. I don't understand your stance on this and never will ... it's ok because our Dear Leader uses FANCY words on twitter you see! "Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing.." "hereby"... oooo! also, companies are "ordered"... it's an ORDER from Mao/Stalin - didn't you see? 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 not enough eyerolls in all of the interwebs to express disbelief and disgust at the moron-in-chief. Probably looked like this before spellcheck: "hour gret merican companys ar hear by ordereed too imediatielalty starte lokeng four and alternatyvve too Giana" He is now Chairman Trump to be because I can't tell the difference between him and any other communist leader.
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chinacat
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Post by chinacat on Aug 23, 2019 9:31:09 GMT -8
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walterwhite
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Post by walterwhite on Aug 23, 2019 9:34:40 GMT -8
chinacat... just want to say, thanks for opening the threads and trying to keep us on track...
hard to do on a day when AAPL is down nearly 5% based on something completely outside its control, but appreciate you trying inject some optimism
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walterwhite
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Post by walterwhite on Aug 23, 2019 9:38:06 GMT -8
US total market cap is 30 trillion... stocks dropping 1.3% on tweetstorm is a $390 BILLION loss of wealth in a couple of minutes... greater than 10 YEARS of tariffs that our Dear Leader wants to secure from china... as for AAPL, it's become impossible to trade... maybe the nimble ones here sell after every positive meeting with tim cook and buy back after every tweetstorm... you're a better trader than me... i've been trying to get out of a few positions since may 1st.
broad markets now down over 2%... $600 billion loss in value, immediately following Chairman Trump tweetstorm (thanks gtrplyr, will use the moniker)
aapl down over 4.5% - trump decides to take a big shit on the stock market every 2 weeks like clockwork.
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macster
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Post by macster on Aug 23, 2019 9:46:48 GMT -8
Everybody realizes that China's theft of intellectual property is a real problem, but a mature leader would have worked to quietly negotiate a better outcome. General Motors and Ford together sell nearly four million vehicles yearly in China, and that will now be at risk, probably permanently. Soybean farmers and other farmers are losing farms because of China, but most of them voted for trump so they are getting what they wanted. Walmart customers are or will soon be seeing much higher prices on Chinese imports, since customers ultimately pay for tariffs. Apple's Chinese sales will be at risk, so expect a dramatic decline in stock price. I think our economy is at great risk because of trump's tactics in this trade war. The Fed was working independently from the Administration's China trade policy. The Fed cooled the economy expecting business as usual attacking nonexistent inflation by raising rates. But again, strong China leadership over decades is the reason for the season and weak US leadership over the same period. We let China raid the candy store for 30 years and look what happens. Who suggest there are other options China would adopt to stop their addiction stealing 500 billion and precious American Intellectual Property theft which estimate around $225 billion plus. So you call for retreat back to the failed ways. lol How can a president quietly work with China when at home he has to appease his critics 24/7 ? We all know how well the economy is doing enabling this fight to get China adhering to the WTO and fair trade. We all know there are risk in the economy. Always have losers and winners. Wages have been rising. Inflation is very low. Farmers are being partially subsidized. Apple products in China still very popular. The President had phone talks as announced and then backed off new tariffs till later in the year. What happened then... China attacks with more tariffs on US goods. Dealing with a communist dictator and his ready to assassinate him or remove him communist assembly is a tough job no matter. Oops that last line seems like a situation that was attempted in our country. Sorry for that lol. Again... no one can say being nice to China (for 30 years) will stop them from their ways. When China sees industry moving out and the unemployed amounting into ten of millions maybe we will see action on their part but it may be in the form of hypersonic missiles and conquest in South East Asia. I jest.
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bud777
fire starter
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Post by bud777 on Aug 23, 2019 9:52:28 GMT -8
EVERY DAMN TIME
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Post by gtrplyr on Aug 23, 2019 10:00:58 GMT -8
Just imagine this tweet from Chairman Trump:
"Thanks to chairman Powell and the fed for their great leadership during this negotiation period with China. I have no doubt they will do everything in their power to ensure a smooth economy by utilizing all of their available resources. I look forward to working with China in order to come up with a trade policy that is mutually beneficial, as the two largest economies in the world come together to open new markets and create millions of new jobs in this new global economy."
Where would the market be right now? Meanwhile he could be tightening the screws behind the scenes .....
Well you will have to imagine it as it will never come from Chairman Trump ......
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Post by firestorm on Aug 23, 2019 10:27:55 GMT -8
His sycophants will follow him right down the rathole of his mind, to the ruin of all of us. Just imagine this tweet from Chairman Trump: "Thanks to chairman Powell and the fed for their great leadership during this negotiation period with China. I have no doubt they will do everything in their power to ensure a smooth economy by utilizing all of their available resources. I look forward to working with China in order to come up with a trade policy that is mutually beneficial, as the two largest economies in the world come together to open new markets and create millions of new jobs in this new global economy." Where would the market be right now? Meanwhile he could be tightening the screws behind the scenes ..... Well you will have to imagine it as it will never come from Chairman Trump ......
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Post by Luckychoices on Aug 23, 2019 10:35:11 GMT -8
By banishment, I meant moving a post, and was referring to Artman taking offense at the use of Trump’s orig name. Sorry to confuse. As to bickering, I disagree. If you think my taking offense at a personal attack was out of line, I’m done here. I appreciate that being a moderator is a drag. I’ll bother you no further. If I want Trump soldiers in my face, I’ll go to a proud boys rally. Good luck and so long, longs. Good bye. Dave, by this post, you've made it very clear that you value your Trump-supporting politics over the ongoing health and survival of this board. That member, pauls, registered on AFB on 09/14/12, almost 7 years ago, and has made 341 posts, the majority of them *nonpolitical*. You signed up 3 days later and have made 106 posts, most of them *political*. Who do you think has contributed more to the health of the board? I sincerely hope he changes his mind and continues to contribute to this board. We need *more* members like him, not fewer.
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chinacat
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Post by chinacat on Aug 23, 2019 10:47:01 GMT -8
chinacat... just want to say, thanks for opening the threads and trying to keep us on track...
I can get all of the other stuff any time I want from MSNBC (I'm sure no one is surprised hearing this from a Massachusetts Democrat) and other network news sources, but I come here for info and opinions about Apple from folks who are interested in and typically invested in Apple, so that's what I try to provide in return. In addition, the political stuff often devolves into...well, you know...which does not interest me in the least. Oh...and you're welcome.
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chinacat
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Post by chinacat on Aug 23, 2019 11:47:30 GMT -8
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Post by archibaldtuttle on Aug 23, 2019 11:48:26 GMT -8
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