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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 14:19:31 GMT -8
Mark, I do not agree with your assertion that Apple management was aware of the shearing of it's shares, if so TC and PO are culpable entities in what I feel is sure to be a lawsuit on behalf of all shareholders re: BLK's manipulation. I am now on a warpath, and will not be dissuaded! I have lost multiple hundreds of thousands of paper dollars in the past 4 months. I am going to lawyer up in the AM, and i firmly believe with justifiable reasons. I fortunately have many family members in the Bar. I think all of AAPL shareholders will end up in the class, and am certain it stands up to the certification process. If my contention is true, BLK, is in a world of hurt, i will make it so. I am very pissed off. VERY. I have time, i have resources. Oodles of both. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you." The SEC can kiss my ass, no doubt the single most do nothing, turn you heads away entity in DC. MF's I'm confused - how is black rock buying a huge amount of shares responsible for the share price declining? Did i miss something? There accumulated position must currently be underwater to the tune of billions of dollars. Not sure what sort of gain they would have gotten from the plunging share price?
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SomeJuan
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Post by SomeJuan on Feb 10, 2013 14:28:06 GMT -8
The precipitate falling of AAPL, is no coincidence. It was measured and deliberate. It shed 225 billion dollars out of the accounts of all shareholders. I now have a new hobby. I am very tenacious, and am far from new in the class action world. I was very integral in IT to the case below, and we tore the plaintiff's completely new a$$holes. We put their d&$k's in the dirt. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Robert_MoriartyDid i mention i am pissed.
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Post by Lstream on Feb 10, 2013 14:38:47 GMT -8
The precipitate falling of AAPL, is no coincidence. It was measured and deliberate. It shed 225 billion dollars out of the accounts of all shareholders. I now have a new hobby. I am very tenacious, and am far from new in the class action world. I was very integral in IT to the case below, and we tore the plaintiff's completely new a$$holes. We put their d&$k's in the dirt. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Robert_MoriartyDid i mention i am pissed. Have fun with the hobby. Call me naive, but I would like to see some evidence first before we decide if this is opportunism or treachery. As others have pointed out, BR is down a lot of money after buying all those shares. Not a good start to proving that they manipulated the stock for their own gain.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 14:45:54 GMT -8
The precipitate falling of AAPL, is no coincidence. It was measured and deliberate. It shed 225 billion dollars out of the accounts of all shareholders. I now have a new hobby. I am very tenacious, and am far from new in the class action world. I was very integral in IT to the case below, and we tore the plaintiff's completely new a$$holes. We put their d&$k's in the dirt. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Robert_MoriartyDid i mention i am pissed. I get the feeling you know a bit more about this than I do, so I encourage you to run with it!
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SomeJuan
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Post by SomeJuan on Feb 10, 2013 14:46:59 GMT -8
How is BLK not liable... And what is AAPL's involvement?
Apple, by all valuations, was cheap in September by any, and all metrics at 705 a share. They had 110 billion in cash, and were growing cash by 1 billion dollars a week! This has grown to roughly 1.25 billion a week going forward. All or most of this is sitting in accounts drawing no more than what Vanguard pays me for their Prime Money market account. It is an obnoxious amount of money to have the returns that have been yielded to date. I would say borderline criminal.
BLK, nor any other institution for that matter does not acquire 36 million shares of ANY company in three short months without collusion/participation of the grandest scale. Un heralded audacity! It does not happen.
Obviously, BLK, was more than willing to dollar cost average down from the 9-30-2012 price, knowing full well what they were doing. Hell, I for one am envious of them, and would have done the same, had i the financial ability.
How they went about it, and with whom they slept is my contention. It stinks to high heaven. Reeks!
We shall see, what we shall see.
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Post by roni on Feb 10, 2013 15:02:08 GMT -8
Apparently you don't I am not here to do internet gambling, or to talk about wagers. I am here to read about and discuss Apple and AAPL. umm, so you have no thoughts about Apple's actions of your own. None at all Gregg, I am just an empty vessel
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 15:02:31 GMT -8
Is it possible that this is the answer to calls for a cheap iPhone? As in, the iWatch would be a smaller form factor iPhone rather than a iPhone accessory? Or it could be both? It could have a cellular data option (like an iPad) - which would enable it to be a communication device (FaceTime/iMessage/Skype etc). It seems like a classic apple move: Apple didn't respond to the NetBook market with a $500 MacBook - it instead launched the iPad. Apple protected its Mac ASP and created a new market. Instead of launching a compromised iPhone under $200 to compete in the cutthroat emerging markets (and decimating the iPhone ASP), it instead launches a whole new product that offers a great experience that competitors can't match in either hardware or software. Think about it - all android vendors have been focused on getting their phones bigger and more powerful, whereas apple has been focused on getting its phones lighter and slimmer in addition to more powerful. If apple turns the tables and makes a device that is all about weight and thinness in a tiny form factor - Android manufacturers will be SCREWED. and even if they could make a similar sized device, android would need to be updated to work with the new form factor - which would take probably at least a year or more to catch up.
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JDSoCal
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Aspiring oligarch
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Post by JDSoCal on Feb 10, 2013 15:07:48 GMT -8
All I know is, a huge Evil Overlord is really long AAPL, so, Go Team Evil!
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Post by Lstream on Feb 10, 2013 15:11:38 GMT -8
Is it possible that this is the answer to calls for a cheap iPhone? As in, the iWatch would be a smaller form factor iPhone rather than a iPhone accessory? Or it could be both? It could have a cellular data option (like an iPad) - which would enable it to be a communication device (FaceTime/iMessage/Skype etc). It seems like a classic apple move: Apple didn't respond to the NetBook market with a $500 MacBook - it instead launched the iPad. Apple protected its Mac ASP and created a new market. Instead of launching a compromised iPhone under $200 to compete in the cutthroat emerging markets (and decimating the iPhone ASP), it instead launches a whole new product that offers a great experience that competitors can't match in either hardware or software. Think about it - all android vendors have been focused on getting their phones bigger and more powerful, whereas apple has been focused on getting its phones lighter and slimmer in addition to more powerful. If apple turns the tables and makes a device that is all about weight and thinness in a tiny form factor - Android manufacturers will be SCREWED. and even if they could make a similar sized device, android would need to be updated to work with the new form factor - which would take probably at least a year or more to catch up. No way this is a cheap iPhone. Technically impossible. Not to mention, the drawbacks of a tiny display. Some kind of cool accessory, maybe.
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SomeJuan
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Post by SomeJuan on Feb 10, 2013 15:14:30 GMT -8
L8r...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 15:21:38 GMT -8
Is it possible that this is the answer to calls for a cheap iPhone? As in, the iWatch would be a smaller form factor iPhone rather than a iPhone accessory? Or it could be both? It could have a cellular data option (like an iPad) - which would enable it to be a communication device (FaceTime/iMessage/Skype etc). It seems like a classic apple move: Apple didn't respond to the NetBook market with a $500 MacBook - it instead launched the iPad. Apple protected its Mac ASP and created a new market. Instead of launching a compromised iPhone under $200 to compete in the cutthroat emerging markets (and decimating the iPhone ASP), it instead launches a whole new product that offers a great experience that competitors can't match in either hardware or software. Think about it - all android vendors have been focused on getting their phones bigger and more powerful, whereas apple has been focused on getting its phones lighter and slimmer in addition to more powerful. If apple turns the tables and makes a device that is all about weight and thinness in a tiny form factor - Android manufacturers will be SCREWED. and even if they could make a similar sized device, android would need to be updated to work with the new form factor - which would take probably at least a year or more to catch up. No way this is a cheap iPhone. Technically impossible. Not to mention, the drawbacks of a tiny display. Some kind of cool accessory, maybe. Why not? What makes it impossible? Whose to say its not a 2.5" display? Look how thin the iPhone 5 is, and imagine how much thinner it would be without LTE.
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Post by artman1033 on Feb 10, 2013 15:28:36 GMT -8
Blackrock holdings of AAPL over time: 50,654,165 shares of AAPL as of December 31, 2009 SEC 48,764,466 shares of AAPL as of February 2, 2011 SEC PAGE 1749,061,208 shares of AAPL as of February 13, 2012 page 1849,807,372 shares of AAPL as of December 31, 2012 (SEC FILING)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 15:29:14 GMT -8
Before the iPad, the bulk of people looking to spend as little as possible on a computer were buying NetBooks and cheap laptops. After apple "changed the game" (hate that term) with the iPad, most of those people started buying tablets and the NetBook market collapsed. Instead of buying a device that is a half crippled PC, they buy a different type of device that is not a half crippled version of something more expensive.
At present billions of people across the globe are choosing sub $200 android smartphones as their communication device, most of which are half crippled versions of the top end android/iPhone class of devices.
The iWatch could be the new class of smart-communication devices that isn't half crippled, but instead a new type of device designed from the ground up to be something different from a smartphone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 15:30:26 GMT -8
Blackrock holdings of AAPL over time: 50,654,165 shares of AAPL as of December 31, 2009 SEC 48,764,466 shares of AAPL as of February 2, 2011 SEC PAGE 1749,061,208 shares of AAPL as of February 13, 2012 page 1849,807,372 shares of AAPL as of December 31, 2012 (SEC FILING)Nice work Artman. So nothing's really changed then.
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Post by mbeauch on Feb 10, 2013 15:33:12 GMT -8
Blackrock holdings of AAPL over time: 50,654,165 shares of AAPL as of December 31, 2009 SEC 48,764,466 shares of AAPL as of February 2, 2011 SEC PAGE 1749,061,208 shares of AAPL as of February 13, 2012 page 1849,807,372 shares of AAPL as of December 31, 2012 (SEC FILING)So, it would seem they dumped on the run up to 700 to get to 8 million shares at the end of Sept?
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Post by thechief on Feb 10, 2013 15:34:40 GMT -8
Blackrock holdings of AAPL over time: 50,654,165 shares of AAPL as of December 31, 2009 SEC 48,764,466 shares of AAPL as of February 2, 2011 SEC PAGE 1749,061,208 shares of AAPL as of February 13, 2012 page 1849,807,372 shares of AAPL as of December 31, 2012 (SEC FILING)this sounds more normal...so horace's tweet was bull??? I understood it was caused by moving BGI stuff intoBLK name or something?
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Post by mbeauch on Feb 10, 2013 15:42:29 GMT -8
Blackrock holdings of AAPL over time: 50,654,165 shares of AAPL as of December 31, 2009 SEC 48,764,466 shares of AAPL as of February 2, 2011 SEC PAGE 1749,061,208 shares of AAPL as of February 13, 2012 page 1849,807,372 shares of AAPL as of December 31, 2012 (SEC FILING)this sounds more normal...so horace's tweet was bull??? I understood it was caused by moving BGI stuff intoBLK name or something? Blackrock changes their position regularly. seekingalpha.com/article/295011-a-look-at-blackrock-s-top-10-holdings
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Post by artman1033 on Feb 10, 2013 15:52:02 GMT -8
The seeking alpha article is following just ONE Blackrock subsidiary Subsidiary BlackRock Asset Management Japan Limited BlackRock Advisors (UK) Limited BlackRock Institutional Trust Company, N.A. BlackRock Fund Advisors BlackRock Asset Management Canada Limited BlackRock Asset Management Australia Limited BlackRock Advisors LLC BlackRock Capital Management, Inc. BlackRock Financial Management, Inc. BlackRock Investment Management, LLC BlackRock Investment Management (Australia) Limited BlackRock Investment Management (Dublin) Ltd BlackRock (Luxembourg) S.A. BlackRock (Netherlands) B.V. BlackRock Fund Managers Ltd BlackRock Pensions Limited BlackRock International Ltd BlackRock Investment Management UK Ltd State Street Research & Management Co.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 15:52:54 GMT -8
Blackrock holdings of AAPL over time: 50,654,165 shares of AAPL as of December 31, 2009 SEC 48,764,466 shares of AAPL as of February 2, 2011 SEC PAGE 1749,061,208 shares of AAPL as of February 13, 2012 page 1849,807,372 shares of AAPL as of December 31, 2012 (SEC FILING)So, it would seem they dumped on the run up to 700 to get to 8 million shares at the end of Sept? Either they are the ultimate EO, or just damned good AAPL investment managers.
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Post by jeffi on Feb 10, 2013 15:55:37 GMT -8
The denial phase is back. Reality was so refreshing. Now, we are back to conspiracy theories. We aren't to blame for our speculative losses. Apple's declining profit growth has nothing to do with it. Falling margins have nothing to do with it. Manipulation! Yes, the largest market cap stock has been manipulated. Personal responsibility no longer exists...
Go ahead, shoot the messenger!
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SomeJuan
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Post by SomeJuan on Feb 10, 2013 16:01:36 GMT -8
Artman,
Good diligence on your part, the facts still remain the BLK umbrella, which seems to span the world, in girth and width, sold the hell outta AAPL, and then conversely bought the hell outta AAPL in the last Qtr of 2012. Or are these not the facts?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 16:06:02 GMT -8
Artman, Good diligence on your part, the facts still remain the BLK umbrella, which seems to span the world, in girth and width, sold the hell outta AAPL, and then conversely bought the hell outta AAPL in the last Qtr of 2012. Or are these not the facts? It sounds like a sensible buy low, sell high strategy to me...
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SomeJuan
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Post by SomeJuan on Feb 10, 2013 16:09:44 GMT -8
Jeffi,
A billion dollars a week in profit to the bottom line is not woe is me! Margins by all metrics simply returned to the statistical norm.
I take full, 100% responsibility for each and every investment i make, totally!
There is still a very tainted smell about this. It permeates my olfactory senses.
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Post by phoebear611 on Feb 10, 2013 16:22:39 GMT -8
John Melloy - a CNBC producer just sent this tweet out about covering a story tomorrow with respect to AAPL's capital allocation - I will post a link if you would like to read it but the hilarious part is that the last line of the piece he refers to AAPL's CEO as PETER COOK ;D What a jackass! www.cnbc.com/id/100448956FWIW: Scott Redler just blasted this article out to everyone in a tweet a few moments ago as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 16:23:02 GMT -8
Jeffi, A billion dollars a week in profit to the bottom line is not woe is me! Margins by all metrics simply returned to the statistical norm. I take full, 100% responsibility for each and every investment i make, totally! There is still a very tainted smell about this. It permeates my olfactory senses. 6 months ago few were expecting Q2 earnings to be 10-20% less year on year - 6 months later that looks to be the case and the stock price drop reflects this. 6 months ago I knew margins would be smaller for this quarter, but I assumed the growth in Apple would exceed the shrinking margin, but that is not the case. At the present time, growth in apples earnings has definitely slowed, and for its 2013 financial year should be anywhere between 0% to 10% growth - which is pretty shit. However like most here, I expect apples earnings growth to accelerate again in the 2nd half of this year, which is why I'm still invested in AAPL. Point is there were reasons for wall street to sell off AAPL over the last 3 months, as apple results and guidance indicated the bullish scenarios were unlikely.
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Post by jeffi on Feb 10, 2013 16:26:54 GMT -8
Jeffi, A billion dollars a week in profit to the bottom line is not woe is me! Margins by all metrics simply returned to the statistical norm. I take full, 100% responsibility for each and every investment i make, totally! There is still a very tainted smell about this. It permeates my olfactory senses. 6 months ago few were expecting Q2 earnings to be 10-20% less year on year - 6 months later that looks to be the case and the stock price drop reflects this. 6 months ago I knew margins would be smaller for this quarter, but I assumed the growth in Apple would exceed the shrinking margin, but that is not the case. At the present time, growth in apples earnings has definitely slowed, and for its 2013 financial year should be anywhere between 0% to 10% growth - which is pretty shit. However like most here, I expect apples earnings growth to accelerate again in the 2nd half of this year, which is why I'm still invested in AAPL. Point is there were reasons for wall street to sell off AAPL over the last 3 months, as apple results and guidance indicated the bullish scenarios were unlikely. Refreshing. Thx
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Post by appledoc on Feb 10, 2013 16:29:53 GMT -8
Apple, by all valuations, was cheap in September by any, and all metrics at 705 a share I'm going to heavily disagree with this. If WS felt AAPL was cheap at 705, we wouldn't be sitting at sub-500 right now. Apple is a company unlike any the world has ever seen. That creates uncertainty going forward. WS hates uncertainty. Profits rest heavily on the shoulders of one device. It's a magnificent device, but serious and legitimate concerns concerning its future have arisen over the past few months. Fact of the matter is that we had negative EPS growth last quarter (14 vs 13 week quarter, but STILL negative growth), and will certainly have negative EPS growth in Q2. You cannot paint a positive picture out of that. Now long term I do believe in this company and their ability to create desirable products. But right now the water is murky and it has yet to be cleared by TC and company. Hopefully we finally see some damn conviction come March.
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Post by sponge on Feb 10, 2013 16:37:36 GMT -8
6 months ago few were expecting Q2 earnings to be 10-20% less year on year - 6 months later that looks to be the case and the stock price drop reflects this. 6 months ago I knew margins would be smaller for this quarter, but I assumed the growth in Apple would exceed the shrinking margin, but that is not the case. At the present time, growth in apples earnings has definitely slowed, and for its 2013 financial year should be anywhere between 0% to 10% growth - which is pretty shit. However like most here, I expect apples earnings growth to accelerate again in the 2nd half of this year, which is why I'm still invested in AAPL. Point is there were reasons for wall street to sell off AAPL over the last 3 months, as apple results and guidance indicated the bullish scenarios were unlikely. Refreshing. Thx Smart folks still think it will grow over 20% in eps this FY. Given's Apple's solid business plan, there is no justification for present valuation that gives it a forward p/e of 7. I don't buy the argument that there were legitimate reasons for the stock to drop 35%. I have been following this stock for over 8 years and I am confident it is being manipulated to go up and down. The reason the hills and valleys are getting bigger is because the stock is becoming so expensive and quite a few retail investors jumped on board last year hoping to see $1000 this year. I think we may see $600 now much faster then anyone imagined.
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Post by artman1033 on Feb 10, 2013 16:42:50 GMT -8
Smart folks still think it will grow over 20% in eps this FY. I know you are not referring to me, (hehe), I think Apple will grow 10-20% in SALES, but profits YOY will remain the same.
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Post by sponge on Feb 10, 2013 16:43:26 GMT -8
Apple, by all valuations, was cheap in September by any, and all metrics at 705 a share I'm going to heavily disagree with this. If WS felt AAPL was cheap at 705, we wouldn't be sitting at sub-500 right now. Apple is a company unlike any the world has ever seen. That creates uncertainty going forward. WS hates uncertainty. Profits rest heavily on the shoulders of one device. It's a magnificent device, but serious and legitimate concerns concerning its future have arisen over the past few months. Fact of the matter is that we had negative EPS growth last quarter (14 vs 13 week quarter, but STILL negative growth), and will certainly have negative EPS growth in Q2. You cannot paint a positive picture out of that. Now long term I do believe in this company and their ability to create desirable products. But right now the water is murky and it has yet to be cleared by TC and company. Hopefully we finally see some damn conviction come March. Doc IF WS really believed that Apple is in trouble and their business plan uncertain, there is no way in hell one Hedge fund decides that it is safe to own $24Billion or over 5% of a company. That to me is confirmation that smart money knows that in 5 years they will triple their money by staying put. It does not get anymore bullish then that. Blackrock did not get to managing 3.6Trillion in assets by making risky betts on fads and concerns over falling margins.
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