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Post by artman1033 on Jun 23, 2013 17:16:37 GMT -8
When Carl Icahn tweeted: Twitter is great. I like it almost as much as I like Dell.Lawyers convinced him to file a SCHEDULE 14A with the SEC
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Post by Lstream on Jun 23, 2013 17:20:59 GMT -8
Trust me he knows his stuff. Ya sure he does, when he claims 15 seconds to complete a transaction with 100K of data. I don't think anyone here is trusting you on this one.
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Post by sponge on Jun 23, 2013 17:25:23 GMT -8
I'm just picturing people bringing the iPhone camera up to their iris to authenticate the purchase of a latte. Hilarious. He just added a system to the local jail system that takes a picture of the iris at the same time that they take your mug shot. By simply looking down at your iPhone to turn on the payment app the camera will identify you. No need to put it up to your face. He said the only way it won't work is if you are dead. The problem is that there is no mobile system for that yet. The Dubai Airport is the only airport in the world that has a standalone fixed system for public use.. It will identify your iris even if you have sunglasses on.
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Post by sponge on Jun 23, 2013 17:43:30 GMT -8
Here are dimensions for Blue Check www.cogentsystems.com/MobilesProdLine.asp4.5 x 1.9 x 0.8 in. and it weighs 4.59 oz And here are the dimensions for the iPhone 5. 4.87 x 2.3x 0.3 in. and it weighs 3.95 oz The newer system called Sherlock is now .5 inches thick. I expect the iPhone 6 next year to be as thick as the iPod touch at .24 inches and weigh even less. However with a bigger screen it may weigh the same.
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bud777
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Post by bud777 on Jun 23, 2013 18:57:21 GMT -8
It won't be ever. Ask Samsung how its GSIII did against iPhone 4 and 4S. They both outsold the SIII during the December quarter. And why is Samsung cutting back on SIV production and lowering the price just weeks after its launch? I think the popularity of the 5" handset is a myth. Do you ever get tired of making such blanket statements that turn out to be completely wrong? There is no doubt a "cheaper" iPhone is coming and there is no doubt a larger screen iPhone is coming. Just like there was no doubt an iPad Mini was coming. By the way, Samesung is enjoying record revenues, margins and profits thanks in no small part to this big screen "fad". I think if you ask them they'd be very pleased with their decision. Anecdotally, the number one reason I see people switching away from iOS is screen size. Not because they prefer Android, not because of superior hardware specs, not because of design - screen size. You know, tuffet, you seem to have a problem with people making unsubstantiated claims and call them on it quite frequently, often with quite a bit of righteous indignation. And yet there. Is "no doubt a larger screen is coming and no doubt a cheaper iPhone is coming". And you know that how? I don't mind you making claims like this, but if you are going to indulge how about a little slack for others?
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Jun 23, 2013 19:04:50 GMT -8
If I have this right Lstream, you're saying that a decently high-res fingerprint is maybe 12.5KB in size.
Yup, even EDGE (say 30KB/sec?) can upload that fairly quickly. And since even Verizon 3G can manage 100KB/s uplink and LTE way more than that...
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Post by artman1033 on Jun 23, 2013 19:14:27 GMT -8
Remember that old truckstop? The have a podcast interviewing PED about the trial!!! It is worth your TIME! trust me!
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Post by tuffett on Jun 23, 2013 19:20:16 GMT -8
Do you ever get tired of making such blanket statements that turn out to be completely wrong? There is no doubt a "cheaper" iPhone is coming and there is no doubt a larger screen iPhone is coming. Just like there was no doubt an iPad Mini was coming. By the way, Samesung is enjoying record revenues, margins and profits thanks in no small part to this big screen "fad". I think if you ask them they'd be very pleased with their decision. Anecdotally, the number one reason I see people switching away from iOS is screen size. Not because they prefer Android, not because of superior hardware specs, not because of design - screen size. You know, tuffet, you seem to have a problem with people making unsubstantiated claims and call them on it quite frequently, often with quite a bit of righteous indignation. And yet there. Is "no doubt a larger screen is coming and no doubt a cheaper iPhone is coming". And you know that how? I don't mind you making claims like this, but if you are going to indulge how about a little slack for others? 1) It's an obvious void in the iPhone product line 2) Apple does this with all other major products 3) Tim Cook has blatantly hinted as such That's how I "know". If anybody cares to argue it, fine with me, but "it's not here so it will never happen" is not an argument.
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Post by artman1033 on Jun 23, 2013 19:23:08 GMT -8
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Post by sponge on Jun 23, 2013 19:49:32 GMT -8
If I have this right Lstream, you're saying that a decently high-res fingerprint is maybe 12.5KB in size. Yup, even EDGE (say 30KB/sec?) can upload that fairly quickly. And since even Verizon 3G can manage 100KB/s uplink and LTE way more than that... You are missing the point. It is not the scan nor the speed of data transfer. It is searching the database of millions of fingerprints and matching the scan that takes 15 seconds to authenticate. If they are wrong, they arrest the wrong person, or maybe the evidence gets thrown out in court and the criminal walks..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2013 19:55:56 GMT -8
You are missing the point. It is not the scan nor the speed of data transfer. It is searching the database of millions of fingerprints and matching the scan that takes 15 seconds to authenticate. If they are wrong, they arrest the wrong person, or maybe the evidence gets thrown out in court and the criminal walks.. Just as the passcode resides on the device so too could the fingerprint authentication. I just don't see the problem here.
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Post by Red Shirted Ensign on Jun 23, 2013 19:57:13 GMT -8
If I have this right Lstream, you're saying that a decently high-res fingerprint is maybe 12.5KB in size. Yup, even EDGE (say 30KB/sec?) can upload that fairly quickly. And since even Verizon 3G can manage 100KB/s uplink and LTE way more than that... You are missing the point. It is not the scan nor the speed of data transfer. It is searching the database of millions of fingerprints and matching the scan that takes 15 seconds to authenticate. If they are wrong, they arrest the wrong person, or maybe the evidence gets thrown out in court and the criminal walks.. But sponge, here you are missing the point. If my iPhone has originally captured my fingerprint during setup and I have certified it as "me", every time I ask the sensor to identify me it does not need to exclude 3 billion other people. It needs to recognize me. This is why the eventual use need not be as robust as you seem to indicate. The protocols in the fingerprint program capture specific elements that it holds as identifiers for me. When it sees those again on a swipe...open sesame. It doesn't care who I am not, only that I am me.
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Post by artman1033 on Jun 23, 2013 20:01:11 GMT -8
If I have this right Lstream, you're saying that a decently high-res fingerprint is maybe 12.5KB in size. Yup, even EDGE (say 30KB/sec?) can upload that fairly quickly. And since even Verizon 3G can manage 100KB/s uplink and LTE way more than that... You are missing the point. It is not the scan nor the speed of data transfer. It is searching the database of millions of fingerprints and matching the scan that takes 15 seconds to authenticate. If they are wrong, they arrest the wrong person, or maybe the evidence gets thrown out in court and the criminal walks.. I am confused Sponge. As I understand it, MY iPhone is only looking for MY fingerprint. It is not looking through 300,000,000 fingerprints. Just looking for mine. It is a simple password. Hard to cheat.
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Post by geraci on Jun 23, 2013 20:01:13 GMT -8
The fingerprint scan data would never leave the phone. The authentication scan would be matched against a fingerprint scan previously established on the phone. The benchmark scan would have been created when you first set up the phone.
This would fulfill the two requirements needed to prove this is your phone and you are you. You have the phone in your possession and your fingerprint matches the benchmark fingerprint. This would prove you are the owner of the phone and you can authorize transactions using the phone.
This idea of matching against a large external database is the wrong way to go.
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Post by artman1033 on Jun 23, 2013 20:06:07 GMT -8
wow!
4 different posts reach the same conclusion in 5 minutes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2013 20:08:05 GMT -8
Hopefully Sponge's contact will consult with Samsung, leading them on a wild goose chase, or more accurately, identifying a solution looking for a problem.
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Post by Red Shirted Ensign on Jun 23, 2013 20:09:54 GMT -8
wow! 4 different posts reach the same conclusion in 5 minutes. Artman, I don't think it took any of us more than thirty seconds....
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Post by sponge on Jun 23, 2013 20:17:41 GMT -8
You are missing the point. It is not the scan nor the speed of data transfer. It is searching the database of millions of fingerprints and matching the scan that takes 15 seconds to authenticate. If they are wrong, they arrest the wrong person, or maybe the evidence gets thrown out in court and the criminal walks.. I am confused Sponge. As I understand it, MY iPhone is only looking for MY fingerprint. It is not looking through 300,000,000 fingerprints. Just looking for mine. It is a simple password. Hard to cheat. Ok I can use the fingerprint to open phone. That is not the issue. (although there are other problems with that as well) Every store or vendor I buy from must verify I am the guy who owns the iPhone. So another scan will take place and sent out. An operating phone is not secure enough. They won't take Apple's word for it as you buy $1000 worth of stuff. Your fingerprint then must match a database the vendor approves of. The same way they force you to take out you driver license even though you gave them your credit card. Apple wants to help the banks avoid fraud and make it safer and easier for consumer. Please read The Mobile Wave. Passbook is different because the transaction already took place via credit card.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Jun 23, 2013 20:26:54 GMT -8
You know what, I was getting off track.
MY tinfoil vision of the fingerprint sensor is for LOCAL association with LOCAL autofill data. Like a local master key for the keychain. It doesn't interface with the cloud and if ever it did, it'd be hashed, salted and peppered 50 ways to Sunday. I'm sure Apple has strong encryption it can apply to a setup fingerprint.
I doubt anyone would really be comfortable with their fingerprints being uploaded to the cloud, y'know?
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Jun 23, 2013 20:28:46 GMT -8
(Hey, are we ALL saying the same thing? ;D)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2013 20:31:21 GMT -8
Ok I can use the fingerprint to open phone. That is not the issue. (although there are other problems with that as well) Every store or vendor I buy from must verify I am the guy who owns the iPhone. So another scan will take place and sent out. An operating phone is not secure enough. They won't take Apple's word for it as you buy $1000 worth of stuff. Your fingerprint then must match a database the vendor approves of. The same way they force you to take out you driver license even though you gave them your credit card. Apple wants to help the banks avoid fraud and make it safer and easier for consumer. Please read The Mobile Wave. Passbook is different because the transaction already took place via credit card. If my iPhone falls into the wrong hands and is locked to me, how can another gain access to it or purchase something with it? Further, it wouldn't be difficult to report a lost phone via the internet should one worry about some miscreant defeating the security of the fingerprint. Merchants may still require I.D. at inception to gain confidence with mobile payments but learning curves accompany all things new. The risk of fraud is further diminished by Apple's history with its own customers. The normal authorization process is intact with the vendor who learns the purchaser's credit at point of purchase. The real difference here is that the vendor should (and will) have more comfort with an iPhone enabled by authentication than a stranger tendering a piece of plastic where only possession is required.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Jun 23, 2013 20:34:43 GMT -8
It's not a bad time for Apple to jump into fingerprint authentication because it's already been tried by other vendors. Classic Apple playbook of course. Remember this? (2004 ThinkPad) Fingerprint authentication doesn't need NFC-like ubiquity to be immediately meaningful and useful. Locking your iPhone without even thinking about it! Getting apps! All manner of Web commerce and logins! It'll be easy to go from there.
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Post by Red Shirted Ensign on Jun 23, 2013 20:38:34 GMT -8
Ok I can use the fingerprint to open phone. That is not the issue. (although there are other problems with that as well) Every store or vendor I buy from must verify I am the guy who owns the iPhone. So another scan will take place and sent out. An operating phone is not secure enough. They won't take Apple's word for it as you buy $1000 worth of stuff. Your fingerprint then must match a database the vendor approves of. The same way they force you to take out you driver license even though you gave them your credit card. Apple wants to help the banks avoid fraud and make it safer and easier for consumer. Please read The Mobile Wave. Passbook is different because the transaction already took place via credit card. If my iPhone falls into the wrong hands and is locked to me, how can another gain access to it or purchase something with it? Further, it wouldn't be difficult to report a lost phone via the internet should one worry about some miscreant defeating the security of the fingerprint. Merchants may still require I.D. at inception to gain confidence with mobile payments but learning curves accompany all things new. The risk of fraud is further diminished by Apple's history with its own customers. The normal authorization process is intact with the vendor who learns the purchaser's credit at point of purchase. The real difference here is that the vendor should (and will) have more comfort with an iPhone enabled by authentication than a stranger tendering a piece of plastic where only possession is required. And Apple has the financial wherewithal to provide vendors with backup security if they "trust" the user.....such a guarantee would really move things along.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2013 20:39:02 GMT -8
It's not a bad time for Apple to jump into fingerprint authentication because it's already been tried by other vendors. Classic Apple playbook of course. Remember this? (2004 ThinkPad) Fingerprint authentication doesn't need NFC-like ubiquity to be immediately meaningful and useful. Locking your iPhone without even thinking about it! Getting apps! All manner of Web commerce and logins! It'll be easy to go from there. Yep. And I'm still betting on it being the tentpole for iPhone 5s. ;D
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Jun 23, 2013 20:42:42 GMT -8
Yup! You might even get oohs and ahhs from the jaded press when Schiller brings up guest fingerprint access with variable permission levels (make a call, surf the net, look at an app, with no keychain access and private browsing and access logging)...it could be like Fast User Switching all over again.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Jun 23, 2013 20:44:30 GMT -8
Btw, makes you wonder about iCloud Keychain, don't it. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2013 20:51:57 GMT -8
Btw, makes you wonder about iCloud Keychain, don't it. ;D Good point. Perhaps we're nearing the end of passwords altogether, such as they are entering the pearly gates with keychains in iCloud. Seriously, a fingerprint sensor is realistically the biggest feature/surprise I can think of with the next iPhone.
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Post by Lstream on Jun 23, 2013 21:01:14 GMT -8
If I have this right Lstream, you're saying that a decently high-res fingerprint is maybe 12.5KB in size. Yup, even EDGE (say 30KB/sec?) can upload that fairly quickly. And since even Verizon 3G can manage 100KB/s uplink and LTE way more than that... You are missing the point. It is not the scan nor the speed of data transfer. It is searching the database of millions of fingerprints and matching the scan that takes 15 seconds to authenticate. If they are wrong, they arrest the wrong person, or maybe the evidence gets thrown out in court and the criminal walks.. You are the one who claimed that this whole system needed fast Internet in the first place. Now you are moving the goal posts after the fact. And what does arresting the wrong person have to do with Apple and Mobile Payments, which is where the money is, and is what actually matters? You are talking incompetency about law enforcement. Who cares? If you are going to spend time incompetently discussing something, then how about sticking to a topic that matters to Apple. Or are you now predicting that Apple is getting into law enforcement, in addition to cars and banking?
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Post by sponge on Jun 23, 2013 21:02:19 GMT -8
Btw, makes you wonder about iCloud Keychain, don't it. ;D Good point. Perhaps we're nearing the end of passwords altogether, such as they are entering the pearly gates with keychains in iCloud. Seriously, a fingerprint sensor is realistically the biggest feature/surprise I can think of with the next iPhone. Everyone is talking about it and when it comes out without it, the stock will drop.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Jun 23, 2013 21:10:19 GMT -8
Heck, if iPhone 5S _did_ have a fingerprint sensor, the stock would STILL drop because it wasn't the Unicorn BigPhone and the form factor was "getting dated". Let's be consistent with those ridiculous WS expectations, now.
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