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Post by Tetrachloride on Oct 19, 2012 6:31:13 GMT -8
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Post by mbeauch on Oct 19, 2012 6:33:44 GMT -8
That is not the diluted number and it will take a while to get the diluted bought back. I would use the 947 number
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Post by Tetrachloride on Oct 19, 2012 8:54:29 GMT -8
ty. 947 it is.
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Post by Big Al on Oct 22, 2012 0:36:41 GMT -8
Hm, I am using 954 because that is the number of shares that I arrive to when plugging in Apple's guidance numbers into my spreadsheet.
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Post by mbeauch on Oct 22, 2012 5:22:41 GMT -8
Al, I thought share creep was suppose to stop.
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Post by Big Al on Oct 22, 2012 5:25:41 GMT -8
Al, I thought share creep was suppose to stop. Did they specify when they would start buying?
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Post by Tetrachloride on Oct 31, 2012 14:21:08 GMT -8
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Post by mbeauch on Oct 31, 2012 16:34:28 GMT -8
The positive is that the 945 number will not go up. Lets hope Apple gets aggressive with the repurchase.
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Post by Tetrachloride on Nov 1, 2012 5:37:12 GMT -8
I was surprised it was that low. Suspicious even.
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Post by mbeauch on Nov 1, 2012 6:11:49 GMT -8
I was surprised it was that low. Suspicious even. CL4, there is reason to wonder. Last qtr the outstanding diluted number was 947 (I think), that is why I told you that above. With the report showing 945, that means Apple is being a bit more aggressive. I read through the entire CC, there is a part where they talk about buying back shares. It looks to me like they are going to step this up. The cash is just sitting there and TC already acknowledged that they have way more than they need. I can't think of a better investment for Apple than AAPL. It also benefits shareholders tremendously, more than just the subtle buffering of the EPS, it lowers supply and in time of high demand this will benefit us all. (except the shorts like Kass ;D)
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Post by rickag on Dec 19, 2012 10:17:50 GMT -8
Not sure where to post this so this thread seemed the closest to the topic.
Apple's share buyback plan to prevent dilution of the stock was to begin in fiscal year 2013, right?
It was to use 10 billion over a 3 year period. If broken down by quarter then Apple would be or has bought back ~$833,000,000 worth of stock or about 1,500,000 shares at the current market.
As a stock holder I would hope they would seek to buy back on any dips and this recent dip was pretty low. Actually, as a stock holder if they are buying back instead of $833,000,000 per quarter, now would be a good time to buy back all of the 1st years allocation of 3 billion or about 6.3 million shares, wishful thinking.
When will we know if ever when Apple repurchased any stock? Have they already bought some back or must they buy shares back as they give stock options to the employees?
Just curious.
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Post by Tetrachloride on Dec 19, 2012 10:27:28 GMT -8
I agree, Rickag. These prices below 540 are historically fairly low by PE. I'm currently modeling 950 shares in Q1 spreadsheets, going up 1 M shares per quarter. We will see. Link for Q4 2012 quarterly report : investor.apple.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1193125-12-435506&CIK=320193948,186,000 shares Shares up or down by a million moves the EPS by a penny or two.
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Post by appledoc on Jan 15, 2013 15:41:21 GMT -8
From the shareholder material released today. That is the basic shares, NOT the diluted. By still ~1.8M reduction QoQ.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Jan 15, 2013 16:56:52 GMT -8
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Post by appledoc on Jan 15, 2013 19:32:58 GMT -8
I'm going insane. I swear 940.69M is the number I saw. And now I can't remember where exactly I pulled it from. It's the number on Yahoo and Fidelity. But I thought I checked with the quarterly report too. I guess not.
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Post by chasmac on Jan 16, 2013 5:09:53 GMT -8
In the proxy Doc?
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Post by appledoc on Jan 16, 2013 5:24:28 GMT -8
Yeah. Mav is correct. So we still bought back enough to basically stay flat in the basic shares.
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Post by mbeauch on Jan 16, 2013 7:08:42 GMT -8
This seems to have gotten very confusing and not sure if there are typos.
The 10k that Apple filed in Oct showed the basic as 934 and the diluted as being 945.
The latest proxy show 938. Did the diluted come down? Don't know. Did the basic go up? Don't know. This will be the first quarter that we can analyze the share program. It is .10c toward EPS, so not really a big deal, the whole point is to stop the diluted share creep.
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Post by Tetrachloride on Jan 16, 2013 7:56:02 GMT -8
Use my link to quarterly report. Basic is 938,343. Diliuted is 948,186.
I believe the quarterly report has un-averaged shares.
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Post by mbeauch on Jan 16, 2013 10:01:01 GMT -8
Use my link to quarterly report. Basic is 938,343. Diliuted is 948,186. I believe the quarterly report has un-averaged shares. LOL, this is messed up. The quarterly uses one number, the 10k uses a different number and the proxy just confuses the issue. Wednesday it is. LOL
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mark
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Post by mark on Jan 16, 2013 13:34:03 GMT -8
Use my link to quarterly report. Basic is 938,343. Diliuted is 948,186. I believe the quarterly report has un-averaged shares. LOL, this is messed up. The quarterly uses one number, the 10k uses a different number and the proxy just confuses the issue. Wednesday it is. LOL It's pretty bad. There's many different measures: * Beginning of period outstanding * Beginning of period fully diluted * End of period outstanding * End of period fully diluted * Average during period outstanding * Average during period fully diluted
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2013 9:25:16 GMT -8
Not sure where to post this so this thread seemed the closest to the topic. Apple's share buyback plan to prevent dilution of the stock was to begin in fiscal year 2013, right? It was to use 10 billion over a 3 year period. If broken down by quarter then Apple would be or has bought back ~$833,000,000 worth of stock or about 1,500,000 shares at the current market. As a stock holder I would hope they would seek to buy back on any dips and this recent dip was pretty low. Actually, as a stock holder if they are buying back instead of $833,000,000 per quarter, now would be a good time to buy back all of the 1st years allocation of 3 billion or about 6.3 million shares, wishful thinking. When will we know if ever when Apple repurchased any stock? Have they already bought some back or must they buy shares back as they give stock options to the employees? Just curious. Idle speculation, but for me, it seems the best time for Apple to make serious buybacks would be after April earnings. Buying back now would be like the little Dutch boy with his thumb stuck in a leaking dike. After a solid April earnings report, and strong guidance for June earnings, an aggressive Apple buyback would elevate sentiment a great deal. After all, WS believes AAPL is a 2nd half story. Going into July earnings with good momentum would be the perfect way for AAPL to rebound.
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Post by rickag on Mar 8, 2013 9:41:25 GMT -8
Not sure where to post this so this thread seemed the closest to the topic. Apple's share buyback plan to prevent dilution of the stock was to begin in fiscal year 2013, right? It was to use 10 billion over a 3 year period. If broken down by quarter then Apple would be or has bought back ~$833,000,000 worth of stock or about 1,500,000 shares at the current market. As a stock holder I would hope they would seek to buy back on any dips and this recent dip was pretty low. Actually, as a stock holder if they are buying back instead of $833,000,000 per quarter, now would be a good time to buy back all of the 1st years allocation of 3 billion or about 6.3 million shares, wishful thinking. When will we know if ever when Apple repurchased any stock? Have they already bought some back or must they buy shares back as they give stock options to the employees? Just curious. Idle speculation, but for me, it seems the best time for Apple to make serious buybacks would be after April earnings. Buying back now would be like the little Dutch boy with his thumb stuck in a leaking dike. After a solid April earnings report, and strong guidance for June earnings, an aggressive Apple buyback would elevate sentiment a great deal. After all, WS believes AAPL is a 2nd half story. Going into July earnings with good momentum would be the perfect way for AAPL to rebound. Yes, you are right relative to us the shareholders, but as far as Apple the lower the price then Apple preserves more of their cash and cash equivalents holdings. Seems like it would come down to Apple making a decision as to what they think is best for them or the stock holders. I know this is a very simplistic view as other factors weigh in such as dividend payments owed and value of employee options, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2013 11:19:58 GMT -8
Idle speculation, but for me, it seems the best time for Apple to make serious buybacks would be after April earnings. Buying back now would be like the little Dutch boy with his thumb stuck in a leaking dike. After a solid April earnings report, and strong guidance for June earnings, an aggressive Apple buyback would elevate sentiment a great deal. After all, WS believes AAPL is a 2nd half story. Going into July earnings with good momentum would be the perfect way for AAPL to rebound. Yes, you are right relative to us the shareholders, but as far as Apple the lower the price then Apple preserves more of their cash and cash equivalents holdings. Seems like it would come down to Apple making a decision as to what they think is best for them or the stock holders. I know this is a very simplistic view as other factors weigh in such as dividend payments owed and value of employee options, etc. There is a benefit to Apple when AAPL is higher, but not necessarily the same benefits investors are looking for. If Apple is going to buy back, they get far more for their cash if the buyback also increases the value of AAPL. IMO, buying back now wouldn't have a lasting effect, and that should be the result that investors are seeking.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2013 13:59:21 GMT -8
Yes, you are right relative to us the shareholders, but as far as Apple the lower the price then Apple preserves more of their cash and cash equivalents holdings. Seems like it would come down to Apple making a decision as to what they think is best for them or the stock holders. I know this is a very simplistic view as other factors weigh in such as dividend payments owed and value of employee options, etc. There is a benefit to Apple when AAPL is higher, but not necessarily the same benefits investors are looking for. If Apple is going to buy back, they get far more for their cash if the buyback also increases the value of AAPL. IMO, buying back now wouldn't have a lasting effect, and that should be the result that investors are seeking. ? Wouldn't Apple get less shares for the same amount of money if the share price proceeded higher during a buyback, rather than if shares stayed the same price? Apple would be cancelling the shares it purchases - so there would be no benefit to the company of a higher share price while it is buying. Of course, the whole point of a buyback is to increase the value of current shareholders holdings, so I would expect the share price to rise as soon as the buyback is announced, but I don't see how the company would get "more for its cash" when the share price rises during a buyback, and I don't see why buying back now "wouldn't have a lasting effect"? The whole point of a buyback is to increase the company ownership amount of every remaining share outstanding. Hypothetically if a company had 1 billion shares outstanding with $500 billion market cap ($500 share price) spent $100 billion on a buyback and the share price remained the same, it would mean after 200 million shares were cancelled in the buyback, the remaining 800 million shares would now have each shares ownership of the company (and its earnings) increased by 25%. However if the same company's share price increased over the period of the buyback, then less than 200 million shares would be purchased for the same $100 billion buyback, and the increase in the company ownership of each of the remaining shares outstanding would be less than a 25% increase.
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Post by rickag on Mar 8, 2013 17:50:08 GMT -8
greggthurman / burgess
Good discussion, I can see both points. One could target shorter term momentum which we as shareholders could use right about now and the other longer term targets.
Maybe quietly buy back a targeted amount prior to earnings report then after word leaks or announced kick start AAPL strategically.
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Post by thomson on Oct 11, 2013 9:23:39 GMT -8
Shares are for sale and i prefer to target the short term goals and then the big goals can be achieved and this is the way to be on the right track.
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