Since84
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To infinity and beyond!
Posts: 3,933
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Post by Since84 on Aug 30, 2016 2:41:19 GMT -8
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Post by tuffett on Aug 30, 2016 4:12:48 GMT -8
Wow.
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Since84
Moderator
To infinity and beyond!
Posts: 3,933
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Post by Since84 on Aug 30, 2016 4:20:30 GMT -8
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Since84
Moderator
To infinity and beyond!
Posts: 3,933
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Post by Since84 on Aug 30, 2016 4:23:50 GMT -8
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Since84
Moderator
To infinity and beyond!
Posts: 3,933
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Post by Since84 on Aug 30, 2016 4:24:53 GMT -8
I was hoping to BTFD...
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Post by chasmac on Aug 30, 2016 4:34:13 GMT -8
I always find it interesting when someone says that "if the U.S. just lowered corporate taxes, companies would stay here or keep their money here." Nonsense, big companies will always find the cheaper rate somewhere else. Kind of hard to believe though that they can change their minds essentially after so much passage of time. .005 tax rate? Irish traded jobs for this, no?
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Post by tuffett on Aug 30, 2016 4:37:19 GMT -8
I think Tim's letter is great, especially this quote: Apple is obviously being facetious when they imply that they invested in Cork only for the talent there as there are obviously huge tax advantages. But I don't think any laws were broken and the EC is overstepping their bounds as they always do.
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Post by Odd-Lot Richard on Aug 30, 2016 6:04:36 GMT -8
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Post by sponge on Aug 30, 2016 6:32:13 GMT -8
Just happen to wake up at 3:30 this morning. When I read the news and saw the drop I quickly bought the stock at 104.70. So I am finally back in.
Let's see how far we go post iPhone 7 announcement. I am hoping for 114 before we correct into Oct.
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Post by tuffett on Aug 30, 2016 6:39:35 GMT -8
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Post by mace on Aug 30, 2016 7:28:11 GMT -8
"The commission added that if other countries were to pursue Apple for more tax on profits, this would reduce the amount to be recovered by Ireland."
US Treasury is assured.
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Post by nagrani on Aug 30, 2016 7:39:54 GMT -8
This is to me is short term idiotic and Med term good because it almost ensures Apple and other US based companies will get a special tax holiday to repatriate dollars held overseas into the us. The fear the us has is someone else is going to milk their cows vs them getting a chance to milk themselves. Funny but it should create some nice catalyst for Apple next year to have that cash come home.
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Post by tuffett on Aug 30, 2016 7:42:16 GMT -8
"The commission added that if other countries were to pursue Apple for more tax on profits, this would reduce the amount to be recovered by Ireland." US Treasury is assured. Pretty sure they mean other countries in the EU.
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Post by mace on Aug 30, 2016 8:38:33 GMT -8
This is to me is short term idiotic and Med term good because it almost ensures Apple and other US based companies will get a special tax holiday to repatriate dollars held overseas into the us. The fear the us has is someone else is going to milk their cows vs them getting a chance to milk themselves. Funny but it should create some nice catalyst for Apple next year to have that cash come home. Tim Cook implies he is sure that would happen in 2017. What do you think Apple will do with the money? More dividends? More buybacks? Buy Disney?
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,183
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Post by JDSoCal on Aug 30, 2016 9:24:04 GMT -8
I always find it interesting when someone says that "if the U.S. just lowered corporate taxes, companies would stay here or keep their money here." Nonsense, big companies will always find the cheaper rate somewhere else. Kind of hard to believe though that they can change their minds essentially after so much passage of time. .005 tax rate? Irish traded jobs for this, no? As usual, liberal economics fail. Tax laws effects are not binary, it's a spectrum. Lower taxes encourage investment in that jurisdiction. Investor capital is like a girlfriend, it wants to be treated nicely. What trades for jobs is high tax rates that force companies to leave the country for better tax and regulatory treatment (that and open borders). It is short-sighted to abuse the golden goose. It's funny how that seems to make complete sense to liberals when it's something they want to subsidize, like solar power or electric cars. But the great thing about liberal economics is that it magically works how liberals' hearts feel, instead of pursuant to immutable laws.
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Post by tuffett on Aug 30, 2016 9:56:47 GMT -8
And so it begins...
Good job EU!
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Post by tuffett on Aug 30, 2016 10:04:08 GMT -8
I always find it interesting when someone says that "if the U.S. just lowered corporate taxes, companies would stay here or keep their money here." Nonsense, big companies will always find the cheaper rate somewhere else. Kind of hard to believe though that they can change their minds essentially after so much passage of time. .005 tax rate? Irish traded jobs for this, no? As usual, liberal economics fail. Tax laws effects are not binary, it's a spectrum. Lower taxes encourage investment in that jurisdiction. Investor capital is like a girlfriend, it wants to be treated nicely. What trades for jobs is high tax rates that force companies to leave the country for better tax and regulatory treatment (that and open borders). It is short-sighted to abuse the golden goose. It's funny how that seems to make complete sense to liberals when it's something they want to subsidize, like solar power or electric cars. But the great thing about liberal economics is that it magically works how liberals' hearts feel, instead of pursuant to immutable laws. While I believe Apple met their legal obligations, your analogy doesn't exactly fit. Apple takes a huge amount of their worldwide business and pays (extremely low) tax for it in Ireland. Certainly Ireland has benefitted from this, but the other countries? Not so much. I can understand their point of view, even if I think a retroactive fine for a completely legal activity is ridiculous.
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Post by mace on Aug 30, 2016 10:21:48 GMT -8
And so it begins... Good job EU! Turkey has been trying to court Apple for years. Turkey is not in EU, so what is the benefit? In general, need to have a sub in the nation to sell products, so that the nation can collect sales tax for the sale, and corporate income tax from the sub. For EU, no need for a sub in each nation, just a sub in any of the EU nation, most US companies choose Ireland because of the low corporate income tax.
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Post by bloodylongaapl on Aug 30, 2016 10:51:01 GMT -8
Retroactive tax orders are a bottomless can of worms, crazy they're trying to make this stick especially given their attention should be on holding the community together. Biting the hand that feeds... Even more crazy there is no mention of a change to ongoing tax law.
So this is just a retroactive cash grab, of a huge employer in and thus key supporter of EU, and a massive red flag to any other global corp that EU can stick their hand in company coffers any time they fancy. Undermining a key relationship of Ireland's even as they consider the cost of continued EU inclusion in wake of Brexit.
Somebody needs to fire this crazy woman before she does any more damage.
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coma
Member
Posts: 522
Member is Online
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Post by coma on Aug 30, 2016 11:23:50 GMT -8
Somebody needs to fire this crazy woman before she does any more damage. Darwin is waiting in the wings . . .
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Post by rickag on Aug 30, 2016 11:49:10 GMT -8
There is A LOT of talk about Apple not paying their fair share of taxes on the Internet. I am not an international tax expert but I trust that Apple broke no laws and payed all taxes owed as required by law.
I have found no articles that point to the laws and how Apple follows the laws, mostly I find emotional outbursts.
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Post by mace on Aug 30, 2016 11:59:40 GMT -8
Retroactive tax orders are a bottomless can of worms... Any retroactive laws are equivalent to no laws. EUC has gone nuts.
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Post by nagrani on Aug 30, 2016 12:58:31 GMT -8
Apple is down 8-10 days I believe. Oversold on the RSI. Apple gets hit with a big fine and the best bulls can do is <1 move in share price - meh - look for an oversold bounce coming up. The nature of that should dictate strength in Apple. Pullbacks can be expected after rips. Just be mindful that Apple rarely rallys during or after and event. Look for a bounce between now and then. Trade em well.
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hledgard
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Post by hledgard on Aug 30, 2016 13:40:15 GMT -8
I always find it interesting when someone says that "if the U.S. just lowered corporate taxes, companies would stay here or keep their money here." Nonsense, big companies will always find the cheaper rate somewhere else. Kind of hard to believe though that they can change their minds essentially after so much passage of time. .005 tax rate? Irish traded jobs for this, no? As usual, liberal economics fail. Tax laws effects are not binary, it's a spectrum. Lower taxes encourage investment in that jurisdiction. Investor capital is like a girlfriend, it wants to be treated nicely. What trades for jobs is high tax rates that force companies to leave the country for better tax and regulatory treatment (that and open borders). It is short-sighted to abuse the golden goose. It's funny how that seems to make complete sense to liberals when it's something they want to subsidize, like solar power or electric cars. But the great thing about liberal economics is that it magically works how liberals' hearts feel, instead of pursuant to immutable laws. Totally agree ! ! !
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stub
Member
The fix is in. Be patient. Don't panic.
Posts: 300
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Post by stub on Aug 30, 2016 14:48:09 GMT -8
As usual, liberal economics fail. Tax laws effects are not binary, it's a spectrum. Lower taxes encourage investment in that jurisdiction. Investor capital is like a girlfriend, it wants to be treated nicely. What trades for jobs is high tax rates that force companies to leave the country for better tax and regulatory treatment (that and open borders). It is short-sighted to abuse the golden goose. It's funny how that seems to make complete sense to liberals when it's something they want to subsidize, like solar power or electric cars. But the great thing about liberal economics is that it magically works how liberals' hearts feel, instead of pursuant to immutable laws. Totally agree ! ! ! I totally agree also. Taxes on a Federal level are complete bullshit anyway. It's kinda like, if a Gov't can't figure out how much money to print up to keep itself going, then it seriously needs to get it's shit together in it's Accounting Dept. Ya know? They don't NEED to turn around and take it out of the pockets of it's citizens or it's businesses ALSO. There's no reason a Fed Gov't (that has the power to ask their Central Bank for more money) can't do so, if it needs it. And why a Gov't can't print up it's own money but has to be a part of the Central Banking Financial Dictatorship on this planet IS (at least half of) our problem. But I digress...
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Post by mace on Aug 30, 2016 15:10:56 GMT -8
stub,
How do Fed self-regulate? Spend and print however much it wants?
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stub
Member
The fix is in. Be patient. Don't panic.
Posts: 300
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Post by stub on Aug 30, 2016 16:03:32 GMT -8
stub, How do Fed self-regulate? Spend and print however much it wants? All Fed Gov'ts could create their own money, but they have to 'borrow' it from a Central Banking System and get charged interest. In the USA this Central Bank called the Federal Reserve, which, contrary to it's Federal sounding name, is NOT part of the US Fed Gov't. It is a private bank that has a license to create money out of thin air. The money the US Gov't owes to this Central Banking System (and the compounding interest) is called the Deficit. When we say we are worried about the Deficit, what we're really saying is, we worried about paying back a bunch of people who create money out of thin air. Which is absurd. Yet, it's treated with such seriousness by our politicians and media. The only reason for Federal Tax taxation (in any country) that I can see, is to provide a back door lever to cool off inflation. If Gov'ts had it together in their Accounting Depts, (when they would be deciding on how much money to create to keep it self going) they could eliminate the concept of Federal Taxes for citizens and businesses. So, would we all see a little less money in our paychecks? Probably. But our Cap Gains would be our Cap Gains, long or short would be irrelevant, like in our Roths. In other words, we would all know what were dealing with in terms of our earnings without worrying about a Fed Gov't that could willy nilly decide it wants us to have less of what we've earned. So, in short, Fed taxes are a mechanism to screw the average citizen, when and if, the Evil Overlords decide they want to. That fact makes me (and should make everybody) nervous. The Liberals are so simple (or guilty from inheriting somebody's wealth) that they seem to cling to this notion, that higher taxes will automatically benefit the less fortunate, like the homeless or disabled. That is a lie. For example, as of 2013, a payroll tax cut that was instituted a long time ago, was not re-newed by Obama, raising payroll taxes 4%. Cap Gains (above a certain level) have gone up 5% + a 3.8% Medicare tax (or Medi-kill as it's sometimes called). YET... As of 2016, Social Security Disability Insurance benefits have taken a 19% cut. So much for higher taxes equal more $ for social programs.
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Post by chasmac on Aug 30, 2016 16:10:28 GMT -8
I always find it interesting when someone says that "if the U.S. just lowered corporate taxes, companies would stay here or keep their money here." Nonsense, big companies will always find the cheaper rate somewhere else. Kind of hard to believe though that they can change their minds essentially after so much passage of time. .005 tax rate? Irish traded jobs for this, no? As usual, liberal economics fail. Tax laws effects are not binary, it's a spectrum. Lower taxes encourage investment in that jurisdiction. Investor capital is like a girlfriend, it wants to be treated nicely. What trades for jobs is high tax rates that force companies to leave the country for better tax and regulatory treatment (that and open borders). It is short-sighted to abuse the golden goose. It's funny how that seems to make complete sense to liberals when it's something they want to subsidize, like solar power or electric cars. But the great thing about liberal economics is that it magically works how liberals' hearts feel, instead of pursuant to immutable laws. And 2 seconds after I posted that, Turkey steps into the fray and proves my point. Guess you're just testy because your poster boy for asshole Republican policies has turned into a full blown trumpster fire. Go away troll.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,183
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Post by JDSoCal on Aug 30, 2016 19:51:30 GMT -8
stub, How do Fed self-regulate? Spend and print however much it wants? All Fed Gov'ts could create their own money, but they have to 'borrow' it from a Central Banking System and get charged interest. In the USA this Central Bank called the Federal Reserve, which, contrary to it's Federal sounding name, is NOT part of the US Fed Gov't. It is a private bank that has a license to create money out of thin air. The money the US Gov't owes to this Central Banking System (and the compounding interest) is called the Deficit. When we say we are worried about the Deficit, what we're really saying is, we worried about paying back a bunch of people who create money out of thin air. Which is absurd. Yet, it's treated with such seriousness by our politicians and media. The only reason for Federal Tax taxation (in any country) that I can see, is to provide a back door lever to cool off inflation. If Gov'ts had it together in their Accounting Depts, (when they would be deciding on how much money to create to keep it self going) they could eliminate the concept of Federal Taxes for citizens and businesses. So, would we all see a little less money in our paychecks? Probably. But our Cap Gains would be our Cap Gains, long or short would be irrelevant, like in our Roths. In other words, we would all know what were dealing with in terms of our earnings without worrying about a Fed Gov't that could willy nilly decide it wants us to have less of what we've earned. So, in short, Fed taxes are a mechanism to screw the average citizen, when and if, the Evil Overlords decide they want to. That fact makes me (and should make everybody) nervous. The Liberals are so simple (or guilty from inheriting somebody's wealth) that they seem to cling to this notion, that higher taxes will automatically benefit the less fortunate, like the homeless or disabled. That is a lie. For example, as of 2013, a payroll tax cut that was instituted a long time ago, was not re-newed by Obama, raising payroll taxes 4%. Cap Gains (above a certain level) have gone up 5% + a 3.8% Medicare tax (or Medi-kill as it's sometimes called). YET... As of 2016, Social Security Disability Insurance benefits have taken a 19% cut. So much for higher taxes equal more $ for social programs. The US government actually borrows money to pay the interest on the national debt. And it's all been refi'd to short term T-bills to make the payments lower. Which means US debt is susceptible to a rate shock, should rates rise precipitously. Of course, the Fed knows this and can't really raise rates, just threaten to, especially since it would take a cap gains hit on its massive balance sheet. Wizards of Oz pulling levers that are connected to nothing. And LOL @ Social Security being around when I retire. It was all spent long ago. "Social security trust fund," hahahahahaha. That's like your left pocket writing an IOU to your right pocket. Honestly, I'd be laughing about Tim Cook being betrayed by the left, were I not an Apple stockholder. His preachy liberalism bought him exactly zero, other than pissing off conservative customers and stockholders. I'm ready to see him go.
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Post by firestorm on Aug 30, 2016 20:07:37 GMT -8
All Fed Gov'ts could create their own money, but they have to 'borrow' it from a Central Banking System and get charged interest. In the USA this Central Bank called the Federal Reserve, which, contrary to it's Federal sounding name, is NOT part of the US Fed Gov't. It is a private bank that has a license to create money out of thin air. The money the US Gov't owes to this Central Banking System (and the compounding interest) is called the Deficit. When we say we are worried about the Deficit, what we're really saying is, we worried about paying back a bunch of people who create money out of thin air. Which is absurd. Yet, it's treated with such seriousness by our politicians and media. The only reason for Federal Tax taxation (in any country) that I can see, is to provide a back door lever to cool off inflation. If Gov'ts had it together in their Accounting Depts, (when they would be deciding on how much money to create to keep it self going) they could eliminate the concept of Federal Taxes for citizens and businesses. So, would we all see a little less money in our paychecks? Probably. But our Cap Gains would be our Cap Gains, long or short would be irrelevant, like in our Roths. In other words, we would all know what were dealing with in terms of our earnings without worrying about a Fed Gov't that could willy nilly decide it wants us to have less of what we've earned. So, in short, Fed taxes are a mechanism to screw the average citizen, when and if, the Evil Overlords decide they want to. That fact makes me (and should make everybody) nervous. The Liberals are so simple (or guilty from inheriting somebody's wealth) that they seem to cling to this notion, that higher taxes will automatically benefit the less fortunate, like the homeless or disabled. That is a lie. For example, as of 2013, a payroll tax cut that was instituted a long time ago, was not re-newed by Obama, raising payroll taxes 4%. Cap Gains (above a certain level) have gone up 5% + a 3.8% Medicare tax (or Medi-kill as it's sometimes called). YET... As of 2016, Social Security Disability Insurance benefits have taken a 19% cut. So much for higher taxes equal more $ for social programs. The US government actually borrows money to pay the interest on the national debt. And it's all been refi'd to short term T-bills to make the payments lower. Which means US debt is susceptible to a rate shock, should rates rise precipitously. Of course, the Fed knows this and can't really raise rates, just threaten to, especially since it would take a cap gains hit on its massive balance sheet. Wizards of Oz pulling levers that are connected to nothing. And LOL @ Social Security being around when I retire. It was all spent long ago. "Social security trust fund," hahahahahaha. That's like your left pocket writing an IOU to your right pocket. Honestly, I'd be laughing about Tim Cook being betrayed by the left, were I not an Apple stockholder. His preachy liberalism bought him exactly zero, other than pissing off conservative customers and stockholders. I'm ready to see him go. By all means, replace Tim Cook with Carly Fiorina or the like. As Rush would say, "at least she SAYS the right things."
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