chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,426
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Post by chinacat on Feb 11, 2017 9:00:20 GMT -8
Yet another green week for 2017, keeping the perfect streak going. Is it another positive sign that we did not give all of the dividend back yesterday? Still haven't heard anything about Chinese New Year, but perhaps I missed it. If anyone here is more plugged in than I am, please share. These are obviously turbulent times, but I am not sure that more public statements like this will do any good for Apple or AAPL. Apple's Tim Cook: Fake news is 'killing people's minds'
Compared to last year, this winter has been pretty mild here in New England, but two consecutive days of major storms have brought us back to reality. Time to grab the shovel and free things up so we can make the BSO this evening. Party on, Garth!
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chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,426
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Post by chinacat on Feb 11, 2017 10:02:24 GMT -8
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,182
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Post by JDSoCal on Feb 11, 2017 14:59:43 GMT -8
The whole point and legal duty of a corporation is to enrich stockholders. That's like saying my big screen TV is good for me, but not my neighbor. It's none of society's business what my company does with its profits, especially the foreign profits! But while we're on the topic of officious, tax-and-spend, central planning of the economy, of course a company wouldn't make significant hiring or expansion plans based on a one-time tax break. But a permanent change in tax policy is of course an incentive to do and expand business in the US.
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Post by rickag on Feb 11, 2017 16:55:53 GMT -8
The whole point and legal duty of a corporation is to enrich stockholders. That's like saying my big screen TV is good for me, but not my neighbor. It's none of society's business what my company does with its profits, especially the foreign profits! But while we're on the topic of officious, tax-and-spend, central planning of the economy, of course a company wouldn't make significant hiring or expansion plans based on a one-time tax break. But a permanent change in tax policy is of course an incentive to do and expand business in the US. Agreed, a permanent tax cut has a chance to increase investment in the US. In the company I work for labor hovers around 15% ingredients around 70%. Decreasing taxes will have 2 effects allow for expansion and lower prices.
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chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,426
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Post by chinacat on Feb 12, 2017 11:33:09 GMT -8
The whole point and legal duty of a corporation is to enrich stockholders. That's like saying my big screen TV is good for me, but not my neighbor. It's none of society's business what my company does with its profits, especially the foreign profits! But while we're on the topic of officious, tax-and-spend, central planning of the economy, of course a company wouldn't make significant hiring or expansion plans based on a one-time tax break. But a permanent change in tax policy is of course an incentive to do and expand business in the US. I know I will regret this, but what the heck... Corporations, just like regular citizens, benefit from value provided by the common weal (also know as government) such as an educational system that provides a qualified workforce, infrastructure such as roads and power grids, and services like police and fire. It is not unreasonable that the non-corporate tax payers would expect that corporations act in a manner that recognizes that the public/private partnership has both burdens and benefits for both sides. I believe that this is entirely consistent with the legal duty that you cite.
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Post by rickag on Feb 12, 2017 13:04:27 GMT -8
The whole point and legal duty of a corporation is to enrich stockholders. That's like saying my big screen TV is good for me, but not my neighbor. It's none of society's business what my company does with its profits, especially the foreign profits! But while we're on the topic of officious, tax-and-spend, central planning of the economy, of course a company wouldn't make significant hiring or expansion plans based on a one-time tax break. But a permanent change in tax policy is of course an incentive to do and expand business in the US. I know I will regret this, but what the heck... Corporations, just like regular citizens, benefit from value provided by the common weal (also know as government) such as an educational system that provides a qualified workforce, infrastructure such as roads and power grids, and services like police and fire. It is not unreasonable that the non-corporate tax payers would expect that corporations act in a manner that recognizes that the public/private partnership has both burdens and benefits for both sides. I believe that this is entirely consistent with the legal duty that you cite. What you say is true, however, the US is part of a global economy and has been at a disadvantage for too long due in part to higher corporate taxes than the vast majority of industrialized nations. Time Level the playing field. Side benefit Amazon's advantage of paying little or no taxes might just get smaller.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,182
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Post by JDSoCal on Feb 12, 2017 17:48:29 GMT -8
I know I will regret this, but what the heck... Corporations, just like regular citizens, benefit from value provided by the common weal (also know as government) such as an educational system that provides a qualified workforce, infrastructure such as roads and power grids, and services like police and fire. It is not unreasonable that the non-corporate tax payers would expect that corporations act in a manner that recognizes that the public/private partnership has both burdens and benefits for both sides. I believe that this is entirely consistent with the legal duty that you cite. What you say is true, however, the US is part of a global economy and has been at a disadvantage for too long due in part to higher corporate taxes than the vast majority of industrialized nations. Time Level the playing field. Side benefit Amazon's advantage of paying little or no taxes might just get smaller. Yeah, it's not like anybody is arguing Apple shouldn't pay any taxes. It already pays billions. I'm just against what is essentially triple taxation on my dividends. And yeah, making American corporate tax law competitive with the rest of the world's territorial tax regime is an incentive to do and expand biz here, instead of inverting and outsourcing. Give it a shot and see what happens to economic growth. On another note, I find Tim Cook's "Fake news is 'killing people's minds'" quotes quite strange. The guy who doesn't trust the government with an encryption back door trusts the same government running a Ministry of Acceptable NewsSpeak? 2017 is going to be like 1984? *** Really interesting article on monetizing the living room: Netflix Is Getting Into Merchandise...and It's a Brilliant IdeaFinally, a good article on the upcoming tax reform. Apologies in advance for the political nature of it. FWIW, I am not a fan of the neocon/open borders/NeverTrump Weekly Standard myself. But a rather lucid & relevant piece nonetheless: The Right Cure For what ails our economy.
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bud777
fire starter
Posts: 1,352
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Post by bud777 on Feb 12, 2017 19:14:10 GMT -8
"The new tax base is figured by substracting domestic costs from domestic sales. So, if the sale in question is not made domestically (meaning the good is not destined for America), it is not subject to tax, just like the Mercedes manufactured in Germany. But if the costs of production are not incurred here, they are not deductible"...from JD's article.
This raises a disturbing point. Companies like Apple who have invested billions in equipping foreign factories will no longer get the deduction on the cost of manufacturing, at least not until those factories have been moved to the US. Between building the factories and staffing them without the army of Chinese manufacturing engineers, it might be a while before we see that happen. During that time, the product will be taxed in the US, but no deductions are allowed to offset it, thus hurting the bottom line unless prices are raised in the US.
This penalty is offset somewhat because Apple will not pay US taxes on products sold abroad, but those taxes used to offset US taxes so that deduction is lost as well. Until new factories are built, Apple could see a huge reduction in cash flow. While it doesn't really mean they are making less money, it will look that way to people who cannot be bothered to distinguish between a 13 and 14 week quarter. remember how that FUD drove us to 400 in 2013?
I actually like the tax. I like the concepts and I think we will be better off with it in the long run, but we could be facing some buying opportunities in 2018.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,182
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Post by JDSoCal on Feb 12, 2017 21:58:36 GMT -8
"The new tax base is figured by substracting domestic costs from domestic sales. So, if the sale in question is not made domestically (meaning the good is not destined for America), it is not subject to tax, just like the Mercedes manufactured in Germany. But if the costs of production are not incurred here, they are not deductible"...from JD's article. This raises a disturbing point. Companies like Apple who have invested billions in equipping foreign factories will no longer get the deduction on the cost of manufacturing, at least not until those factories have been moved to the US. Between building the factories and staffing them without the army of Chinese manufacturing engineers, it might be a while before we see that happen. During that time, the product will be taxed in the US, but no deductions are allowed to offset it, thus hurting the bottom line unless prices are raised in the US. This penalty is offset somewhat because Apple will not pay US taxes on products sold abroad, but those taxes used to offset US taxes so that deduction is lost as well. Until new factories are built, Apple could see a huge reduction in cash flow. While it doesn't really mean they are making less money, it will look that way to people who cannot be bothered to distinguish between a 13 and 14 week quarter. remember how that FUD drove us to 400 in 2013? I actually like the tax. I like the concepts and I think we will be better off with it in the long run, but we could be facing some buying opportunities in 2018. But wait, wouldn't those foreign factory costs have come from overseas earnings, that were not yet realized (i.e., repatriated)? That's the whole kabuki dance, that the money is held overseas, untaxed, because it is ostensibly going to be spent there? Any accountants here, because I am out of my depth? Regardless, those are one-off expenses, which I will gladly trade for a permanent YUGE net increase of cash from overseas. Going forward, Apple will make the lion's share of its money outside the US, so I'm happy that's where the tax breaks will be. We haven't seen any of that money. Let's get a 4% divy!
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Post by mace on Feb 12, 2017 23:57:29 GMT -8
Hard to assess the impact of the Trump's tax policy still it is out.
Is hard to believe that the border adjustment tax is true as it encourages those US manufacturers who manufactured all things in USA to export rather than sell in US. That is to say, product shortage and hyperinflation in USA.
Not allowing deduction for the cost of manufacturing if manufactured outside USA is not a generally accepted principle of accounting... which business schools say profit is the full sale price of the product? The tax becomes a kind of sale tax instead of a VAT. Collect sale tax from the consumers and the business?
Since USA won't tax sale made outside USA, Apple needs not reserve money for USA tax which mean Apple can either reduce the price of iPhone overseas or enjoy a larger profit at current price. WIN. So need not sell in USA, overseas demand would explode, and black market could smuggle iPhone into USA for those who want them.
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