|
Post by wheeles on Dec 11, 2012 9:00:12 GMT -8
Anyone got any thoughts on 3D printing?
Which companies are the big players in 3D printing? We make fun of HP, but I understand they are getting into 3D printing, and let's face it, they have a lot of experience in printing.
When is Apple going to get into the 3D printing game? Is this what is behind Tim Cook's plans to start manufacturing in the US again? What is cheaper and more accurate in the long run than an army of Chinese low paid workers? An army of 3D printers. You only need to program the instructions once and then all the "workers" get it. No training required.
|
|
|
Post by rezonate on Dec 11, 2012 9:50:34 GMT -8
Wheeles, how much do you know about the current state of the (consumer) 3D printing art? I've seen a couple Makerbots at various hacker conventions and have done a little online research. But am by no means up to speed. $2200US with 8 week lead time for the next gen MakerBot here: store.makerbot.com/replicator2.html Interested to hear expertise from you or others here.
|
|
|
Post by wheeles on Dec 11, 2012 10:50:41 GMT -8
I know very little about it. I initially thought it was something that could be used to just make small plastic components, but it would appear that it can be used with other materials such as metals and concrete.
I do have a feeling that it will be the thing that rips the guts out of the Chinese manufacturing "miracle". However, while it will bring jobs and money back to the US, I don't see it as the thing that brings lots of jobs. It'll just take a lot of jobs away from places where labour is cheap.
I do see a time when most people will have their own 3D printer and will be able to create items from plans that they buy. The more adventurous will be able to create new parts for products that are broken or in need of enhancing, so the age of throwing stuff away because one small part is broken may be on its way out, if it is cost effective to fire up the 3D printer and print the required part.
|
|
|
Post by rezonate on Dec 11, 2012 13:49:07 GMT -8
Your post made me think back to this video. www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgaurYNPWu8It lets you scan a part in 3D with lasers, then print the scan. I'm with you on the need to locally manufacture a replacement part. Lost wax and sand casting parts can get you similar results but you need equipment and artistry. An off the shelf solution would be great. The MakerBot is the closest I've seen in person, but getting the original object converted to a vector can be problematic. Once you have a plan you can just set it to print as many as you want.
|
|
|
Post by rezonate on Dec 11, 2012 13:53:51 GMT -8
Here's another video from this summer's conference Hope Number 9, showing the MakerBot at work. The second part shows it printing many copies of a squirrel using yellow resin cord. You swap in different reels when the printer needs a different color. www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VkXtjnnEoE I have no affiliation with any of these groups or companies, I just think it's cool.
|
|
|
Post by PikesPique on Dec 11, 2012 15:52:41 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by rezonate on Dec 11, 2012 16:27:26 GMT -8
It might be possible to 3D print the latest plastic toy, then recycle it on site when the novelty wears off. The recycling appliance would chip up the old plastic/resin, then melt and extrude it as new resin cord. After a while you'd end up with a brownish cord base unless you were meticulous about sorting the colored parts. Still, much more useful to someone like me than searching all over the internet for that elusive missing LEGO part. 8)
|
|
|
Post by rezonate on Dec 12, 2012 13:34:47 GMT -8
Saw this article about printing a lower receiver part for the AR-15 rifle. (Note to self: locate real pre-ban lower receiver soon). The second part of the article mentions plans by Staples to keep a 3D printer around so you can walk in with a plan and come back later for the part. bit.ly/UhjOtf
|
|
|
Post by wheeles on Dec 12, 2012 14:39:13 GMT -8
Saw this article about printing a lower receiver part for the AR-15 rifle. (Note to self: locate real pre-ban lower receiver soon). The second part of the article mentions plans by Staples to keep a 3D printer around so you can walk in with a plan and come back later for the part. bit.ly/UhjOtfInteresting. The fact that you could print a firearm is a little disturbing. Makes me wonder what sort of controls are going to be placed on 3D printers when people realise what is possible.
|
|
|
Post by rezonate on Dec 12, 2012 17:32:13 GMT -8
Controls?!? Open source! I was up on my roof the other day, and the thought actually crossed my mind "do I need a permit for this?" We have gotten so close to a police state it is scary. My grandparents taught us to make bows and fletch arrows, recast bullets from collected target pellets, and mix useable gunpowder. The time when all this great tech is gone may be around the corner. A makerbot run by solar panels would be a good hedge!
|
|
|
Post by wheeles on Dec 13, 2012 8:18:01 GMT -8
Controls?!? Open source! I was up on mynroofnthe other day, and the thought actually crossed my mind "do I need a permit for this?" We have gotten so close to a police state it is scary. My grandparents taught us to make bows and fletch arrows, recast bullets from collected target pellets, and mix useable gunpowder. The time when all this great tech is gone may be around the corner. A makerbot run by solar panels would be a good hedge! You can imagine the kneejerk reaction when the first mass shooting from a homemade firearm occurs. Instead of asking why the perpetrator went off the rails (or whether it was a false flag incident), the politicians (possibly at the behest of lobbyists) will be all over the means of creating the weapon and demanding that the sale of 3D printers to the public is restricted. Of course, the real underlying reason for such a move would be to remove the means of production of all sorts of things from the general public so they are kept in the hands of the few. Sadly, that's how corrupt societies operate.
|
|
|
Post by rezonate on Dec 13, 2012 12:54:52 GMT -8
Believe me, I could produce some seriously dangerous stuff using equipment and parts I have laying around. All legal. Sadly most folks don't have a 'hacker' mentality, which is defined as "getting things to perform beyond their intended design". That's what is really powerful about 3D printing. The intended design is ANYTHING you want. If I want to cast a plastic part, my current process is to build it in wood or metal first. These materials require a good bit of skill and dexterity. Contrast with a 3D vector diagram. You can specify exact dimensions and tweak until it looks right and/or fits. Then just hit "go" and voila! Perfect plastic part. And as many as you want. Spectacular.
|
|
|
Post by wheeles on Dec 13, 2012 13:24:51 GMT -8
We really need the 3D printer genii to get out of the bottle fast. I honestly see it as one of the ways the US can turn its economic mess around. This is the future of manufacturing both on the large and small scales. All of a sudden lots of things that people buy from places with low wages can be made in Western countries once more.
You want to start producing something else? No problem, load up the design and away you go. No retraining or significant retooling required.
What to refine your product a little? No problem there. Just amend your model, load it up, and off you go.
The jobs created will be highly skilled programmers of 3D printers, people that maintain them and people shifting the end products around in warehouses.
What's particularly cool is that those societies that encourage freedom of expression and thought will have the advantage on those that don't as the deciding factors for economic success in this new manufacturing paradigm will be design and engineering, not having an army of almost-slaves doing what they are told.
|
|
Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,098
|
Post by Dave on Dec 13, 2012 16:43:29 GMT -8
So what would happen to the idea of the patent? How could it be enforced? Would companies be willing to design and innovate only to have every average Joe reproduce said product in his garage? Would this be similar to digital copying of music and movies? How could this be regulated without opening a Pandora's box?
Just a thought.
|
|
|
Post by wheeles on Dec 14, 2012 4:44:22 GMT -8
So what would happen to the idea of the patent? How could it be enforced? Would companies be willing to design and innovate only to have every average Joe reproduce said product in his garage? Would this be similar to digital copying of music and movies? How could this be regulated without opening a Pandora's box? Just a thought. The commodity for sale would be the design and relevant instructions for printing. Yes, patent laws would need to change to accommodate this. And yes, there will be a lot of piracy, but that happens already with conventional manufacturing. This would bring piracy into the home, like it already is in the media industry.
|
|
|
Post by rezonate on Dec 14, 2012 16:38:56 GMT -8
If I see an existing object, take measurements and reproduce it to my needs from local materials, is that piracy? I remember helping my father "pirate" the plan for a picnic table by finding one we liked, making measurements and building a perfect copy back at home. I regularly clip pictures of furniture and hanging shelves from catalogs, then build versions of my own. Normally the ones I make have custom dimensions for my house, or have extra features and embellishments, my own finishes and flourishes. With 3D scanners and printers you might find an object and print one adapted to your own needs.
|
|
|
Post by wheeles on Dec 15, 2012 3:18:06 GMT -8
If I see an existing object, take measurements and reproduce it to my needs from local materials, is that piracy? I remember helping my father "pirate" the plan for a picnic table by finding one we liked, making measurements and building a perfect copy back at home. I regularly clip pictures of furniture and hanging shelves from catalogs, then build versions of my own. Normally the ones I make have custom dimensions for my house, or have extra features and embellishments, my own finishes and flourishes. With 3D scanners and printers you might find an object and print one adapted to your own needs. Now we get into a grey area. From my perspective what you did is fine, but from Apple's perspective you have copied the look of something. Personally, I don't think you should be able to copyright the aesthetics of something, only its function if new and unique. The only way the form of something should be copy protected is if that form improves on its functionality. An example would be using round cornered windows in aircraft as opposed to square ones. The Comet aircraft with square windows had a tendency to crash.
|
|
|
Post by PikesPique on Dec 15, 2012 8:35:45 GMT -8
I think the issue here is personal use / fair use vs. commercial use. If Rez makes a copy of an existing product for his own personal use, such as a part to fix a broken product, I think that would fall under "fair use." If, however, he starts producing a lot of these parts and sells them on e-Bay, that violates the patent and/or copyright holders rights.
Back in the day, resourceful women (mostly) of modest means would do the same thing Rez is talking about. They would find designer clothing advertised in magazines and either buy patterns or reverse engineer their own patterns from which they would sew their own clothes. I don't recall any of these women being sued for doing so.
|
|
|
Post by PikesPique on Dec 23, 2012 7:04:31 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by wheeles on May 6, 2013 2:10:09 GMT -8
You can imagine the kneejerk reaction when the first mass shooting from a homemade firearm occurs. Instead of asking why the perpetrator went off the rails (or whether it was a false flag incident), the politicians (possibly at the behest of lobbyists) will be all over the means of creating the weapon and demanding that the sale of 3D printers to the public is restricted. Of course, the real underlying reason for such a move would be to remove the means of production of all sorts of things from the general public so they are kept in the hands of the few. Sadly, that's how corrupt societies operate. We now have the first known firing of a 3D printed gun. Admittedly, it's a fairly primitive weapon made from plastic, unlikely to be particularly accurate and slow to reload. However, expect a load of new laws to restrict the manufacture of certain items on a 3D printer and the distribution of plans for such items. EDIT: And the US Gov has now demanded that the plans for the 3D printed gun be taken off the Internet. That didn't take long. www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22478310
|
|
|
Post by wheeles on May 20, 2013 5:13:48 GMT -8
This is awesome. 3D printing of bike parts in titanium. For those that aren't aware, titanium is not exactly the easiest of materials to work with, yet with this process, very intricate shapes can be manufactured.
|
|