|
Post by roni on Jan 2, 2013 14:17:06 GMT -8
Does anyone else here think that the cash hoard at this point in time is getting way too large and "something"..."anything" constructive should be done with it instead of just letting it sit there (so to speak)? Shouldn't we be at $130BN by the Jan earnings call?....it's insane, no? The possibilities are insane Like...reducing the outstanding share count to 700 million through a buy back. Like...increasing the annual dividend to $50+ a share. Like...doing nothing and letting it hit $1 trillion within 10 years. Like...buying up every non-Samsung chip fab plant. Like...buying up Broadcom, Qualcomm, Ti...including all their patents. Like...putting a apple retail store in every town on the planet, and every suburb in the USA. I think just giving it back to shareholders in the form of a constant share buy back program is the best solution, as any huge purchases/investments that are made with the primary goal of simply using up cash are likely to go against apples core goals. Alternatively, I also like the idea of a trillion dollars sitting in their account at some point in the future I like dividends better than share buybacks. Give me the money. OTOH, Apple has enough cash to do both. A regular program designed to reduce the float over a decade or so would be welcome, as long as dividend growth stayed in the double digit range over that time - preferably closer to a 20% growth rate than a 10% rate.
|
|
|
Post by lovemyipad on Jan 2, 2013 14:19:50 GMT -8
I'd prefer staircases or escalators to elevators, personally. iPad, what have you DONE to me?! Nooooooooooooooooo ;D
|
|
|
Post by Red Shirted Ensign on Jan 2, 2013 14:28:15 GMT -8
I'd prefer staircases or escalators to elevators, personally. iPad, what have you DONE to me?! Nooooooooooooooooo ;D The training of Mav by Lovey has been one of the highlights of the last year or so. I hardly recognize the guy!
|
|
|
Post by lovemyipad on Jan 2, 2013 14:28:56 GMT -8
Red, ain't it the truth?!?!?!
|
|
|
Post by tuffett on Jan 2, 2013 14:31:44 GMT -8
The possibilities are insane Like...reducing the outstanding share count to 700 million through a buy back. Like...increasing the annual dividend to $50+ a share. Like...doing nothing and letting it hit $1 trillion within 10 years. Like...buying up every non-Samsung chip fab plant. Like...buying up Broadcom, Qualcomm, Ti...including all their patents. Like...putting a apple retail store in every town on the planet, and every suburb in the USA. I think just giving it back to shareholders in the form of a constant share buy back program is the best solution, as any huge purchases/investments that are made with the primary goal of simply using up cash are likely to go against apples core goals. Alternatively, I also like the idea of a trillion dollars sitting in their account at some point in the future I like dividends better than share buybacks. Give me the money. OTOH, Apple has enough cash to do both. A regular program designed to reduce the float over a decade or so would be welcome, as long as dividend growth stayed in the double digit range over that time - preferably closer to a 20% growth rate than a 10% rate. They can and should do it all. Double digit dividend growth (15% ~$15B) Reduce float 2-3% each year (10-15B) Reserve for accelerated buyback during large corrections (50B, not used every year) Add to cash balance (0-25B)
|
|
|
Post by appledoc on Jan 2, 2013 14:42:49 GMT -8
That was a damn good day.
|
|
|
Post by phoebear611 on Jan 2, 2013 14:50:46 GMT -8
The possibilities are insane Like...reducing the outstanding share count to 700 million through a buy back. Like...increasing the annual dividend to $50+ a share. Like...doing nothing and letting it hit $1 trillion within 10 years. Like...buying up every non-Samsung chip fab plant. Like...buying up Broadcom, Qualcomm, Ti...including all their patents. Like...putting a apple retail store in every town on the planet, and every suburb in the USA. I think just giving it back to shareholders in the form of a constant share buy back program is the best solution, as any huge purchases/investments that are made with the primary goal of simply using up cash are likely to go against apples core goals. Alternatively, I also like the idea of a trillion dollars sitting in their account at some point in the future I like dividends better than share buybacks. Give me the money. OTOH, Apple has enough cash to do both. A regular program designed to reduce the float over a decade or so would be welcome, as long as dividend growth stayed in the double digit range over that time - preferably closer to a 20% growth rate than a 10% rate. That was one of Cooperman's gripes today with AAPL - still hold a small position but does not like that management is just sitting with all this cash...at some point it gets sort of silly. No one says they have to do something with all of it but geez - c'mon already - is there nothing they can think of to enhance shareholder or company value in some way, shape, or form?!
|
|
Mav
Member
[img style="max-width:100%;" alt=" " src="http://www.forumup.it/images/smiles/simo.gif"]
Posts: 10,784
|
Post by Mav on Jan 2, 2013 14:52:34 GMT -8
Red, ain't it the truth?!?!?! Please. I am still TOTALLY me (in personality). I just trade a little differently, is all. A little smarter, I hope. And I have iPad and AFB2 to thank for that. re: Excess cash, I think Apple can use its cash better than I can. I'm more pro-buyback, but it's not like divvy-seekers won't stop getting dividends. If anything, divvies will probably go up this year. Apple has tons of cash, but it also makes tons of things and over $150B+ in revenue, so its base cash needs will continue to increase the bigger it gets. Apple will continue to "throw off" cash as dividends but it has to account for (among a bunch of things) the artificial "cash silos" domestically and offshore, its need to throw billions into CapEx, R&D and components, the sheer leverage having all of that cash provides, as well as yes, that nagging "I'll never be hungry again" or something mentality from the much leaner years. All in all, I don't have any real problem with Apple's asset management strategy.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 14:55:19 GMT -8
The possibilities are insane Like...reducing the outstanding share count to 700 million through a buy back. Like...increasing the annual dividend to $50+ a share. Like...doing nothing and letting it hit $1 trillion within 10 years. Like...buying up every non-Samsung chip fab plant. Like...buying up Broadcom, Qualcomm, Ti...including all their patents. Like...putting a apple retail store in every town on the planet, and every suburb in the USA. I think just giving it back to shareholders in the form of a constant share buy back program is the best solution, as any huge purchases/investments that are made with the primary goal of simply using up cash are likely to go against apples core goals. Alternatively, I also like the idea of a trillion dollars sitting in their account at some point in the future I like dividends better than share buybacks. Give me the money. OTOH, Apple has enough cash to do both. A regular program designed to reduce the float over a decade or so would be welcome, as long as dividend growth stayed in the double digit range over that time - preferably closer to a 20% growth rate than a 10% rate. Here we go again with "what to do with the cash' stories. Has everyone already forgotten? Apple implemented a share buy back AND dividend during 2012, but that didn't stop a 28% sell off. I'm going to IGNORE.anybody that posts buy back and dividend theories/desires. If that's all you have, then you have nothing, and your posts are a waste of my time.
|
|
|
Post by roni on Jan 2, 2013 15:00:47 GMT -8
Here we go again with "what to do with the cash' stories. Has everyone already forgotten? Apple implemented a share buy back AND dividend during 2012, but that didn't stop a 28% sell off. Have not forgotten anything and had my best year with AAPL ever. It takes a history, Gregg - a history of doing a better job with capital allocation - both through buybacks and dividends, I am delighted that Apple made a commitment stop dilution from share-based compensation, and that Apple started paying a dividend again - but my investments in Apple do not depend on either of those programs. Apple will do better, though, when it establishes a multi-year history as a dividend growth company. As long as the dividend plus the dividend growth rate is greater than 12, I'm good. If not, they may as well not have re-started the dividend.
|
|
Mav
Member
[img style="max-width:100%;" alt=" " src="http://www.forumup.it/images/smiles/simo.gif"]
Posts: 10,784
|
Post by Mav on Jan 2, 2013 15:03:25 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by fas550 on Jan 2, 2013 15:07:51 GMT -8
Does anyone else here think that the cash hoard at this point in time is getting way too large and "something"..."anything" constructive should be done with it instead of just letting it sit there (so to speak)? Shouldn't we be at $130BN by the Jan earnings call?....it's insane, no? I don't have an opinion what to do with with the money except give excess back to shareholders in some way/manner. There is no circumstance or downturn or investment, no acquisition (as in no tech acquisition could come close to needing that amount) that justifies cash greater than say 50-62 billion. Simply put there is no case to be made why at the max any company would need > 62B, Holding on to anything beyond that weakens management in that it shows they don't know what to do except hold it which is frankly a cop out for making a decision and an indecisive management is never a positive. Just my .02 but the level of cash is just unjustifiable.
|
|
|
Post by tuffett on Jan 2, 2013 15:22:17 GMT -8
I like dividends better than share buybacks. Give me the money. OTOH, Apple has enough cash to do both. A regular program designed to reduce the float over a decade or so would be welcome, as long as dividend growth stayed in the double digit range over that time - preferably closer to a 20% growth rate than a 10% rate. Here we go again with "what to do with the cash' stories. Has everyone already forgotten? Apple implemented a share buy back AND dividend during 2012, but that didn't stop a 28% sell off. I'm going to IGNORE.anybody that posts buy back and dividend theories/desires. If that's all you have, then you have nothing, and your posts are a waste of my time. Feel free to ignore everyone but it's an extremely relevant topic. If you think Apple's cash management does not influence the share price you are sorely mistaken. A $10B buyback over three years to prevent dilution is very different than a larger buyback to actually reduce float and indicate a strong commitment to establishing a price floor. Yes, there is a dividend but that doesn't mean strong dividend growth will have no effect. Your analyses are very interesting and unique but that does not mean the stuff other people talk about are not important as well.
|
|
|
Post by artman1033 on Jan 2, 2013 15:22:58 GMT -8
oooooh! Q1 FY13 Earnings Release Apple plans to conduct a conference call to discuss financial results of its first fiscal quarter on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 at 2:00 p.m. PT / 5:00 p.m. ET. Listen to the Audio Webcast
|
|
|
Post by jdrizzo89 on Jan 2, 2013 15:28:32 GMT -8
Speaking of apple gurus has any one been following "sirissacnewton" on stock twits. Some pretty informative stuff he puts together mostly using a bloomsberg terminal. Called the close pretty well today and is saying institution buying has been increasing
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 15:46:27 GMT -8
Like Nansen noted, Apples earnings is going to be BEFORE AT&T & Sprint announce, but 1 day after Verizon.
This lack of data may give us more upside surprise on earnings....
|
|
Mav
Member
[img style="max-width:100%;" alt=" " src="http://www.forumup.it/images/smiles/simo.gif"]
Posts: 10,784
|
Post by Mav on Jan 2, 2013 15:47:57 GMT -8
At least we get Vz data. That's a significant data point.
|
|
|
Post by rosie on Jan 2, 2013 15:51:51 GMT -8
Here we go again with "what to do with the cash' stories. Has everyone already forgotten? Apple implemented a share buy back AND dividend during 2012, but that didn't stop a 28% sell off. I'm going to IGNORE.anybody that posts buy back and dividend theories/desires. If that's all you have, then you have nothing, and your posts are a waste of my time. Feel free to ignore everyone but it's an extremely relevant topic. If you think Apple's cash management does not influence the share price you are sorely mistaken. A $10B buyback over three years to prevent dilution is very different than a larger buyback to actually reduce float and indicate a strong commitment to establishing a price floor. Yes, there is a dividend but that doesn't mean strong dividend growth will have no effect. Your analyses are very interesting and unique but that does not mean the stuff other people talk about are not important as well. +1000 on that!
|
|
|
Post by artman1033 on Jan 2, 2013 16:06:42 GMT -8
Verizon:4Q 2012 Quarterly Earnings Report Join Fran Shammo - EVP and CFO, for a presentation at 8:30 AM ET on January 22, 2013. GOOG:Google Announces Date of Fourth Quarter 2012 Financial Results Conference Call MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. (January 2, 2013) – Google Inc. (NASDAQ: GOOG) will hold its quarterly conference call to discuss fourth quarter 2012 financial results on Tuesday, January 22nd at 1:30 p.m. Pacific Time (4:30 p.m. Eastern Time). … Then Apple on the 23rd.. AT&T 01/24/13 4:30 p.m. ET Q4 2012 AT&T Inc. Earnings Conference Call QCOM:Jan 30, 2013 Qualcomm Q1 FY13 Earnings Conference Call CRUS:?
|
|
|
Post by rickag on Jan 2, 2013 16:13:49 GMT -8
I'd prefer staircases or escalators to elevators, personally. iPad, what have you DONE to me?! NoooooooooooooooooWith my miscalculation of Jan 13s BCSs 610/620s and Apr 13 BCSs 685/700 & 690/700s, I'd prefer an GOING UP EXPRESS ELEVATOR right about now. I blew my chance when AAPL was @ or near the ATH, I have burned the phrase "greed is an awful thing" into my brain.
|
|
|
Post by roni on Jan 2, 2013 16:28:13 GMT -8
As Kurt used to exclaim back in the days of the AAPLTalk chat room back in the mid to late 90's
Holy Cow of Calcutta
|
|
|
Post by mbeauch on Jan 2, 2013 16:30:55 GMT -8
Rick, I am with you. I have some Jan 600/615 that need some help. They were bought in Feb. Silly me thought they were easy money.
Rumors floating around that Boehner may step down. I will be glad to see him go. Not fit for the job.
|
|
|
Post by fas550 on Jan 2, 2013 16:32:08 GMT -8
Speaking of apple gurus has any one been following "sirissacnewton" on stock twits. Some pretty informative stuff he puts together mostly using a bloomsberg terminal. Called the close pretty well today and is saying institution buying has been increasing Shhh! Trying to keep it on the down low on what he is showing from his Bloomberg terminal. It's cool stuff, very helpful but probably a no no in the subscription agreement. I wake up each day fearful that is the day someone pulls the plug. I looked into a subscription. It's has custom hardware and could be as much as 2 grand a month depending on what info you want. I am not sure what he is showing is even available to retail investors.
|
|
|
Post by kloot on Jan 2, 2013 16:35:45 GMT -8
Does anyone else here think that the cash hoard at this point in time is getting way too large and "something"..."anything" constructive should be done with it instead of just letting it sit there (so to speak)? Shouldn't we be at $130BN by the Jan earnings call?....it's insane, no? absolutely. holding over 100B in cash is completely dumb. especially when their cash generation is increasing, and rapidly at that. they should be buying stuff - aapl stock, companies, fab lines, whatever. turn that cash into assets. totally agree with you. and so does Leon Cooperman, apparently.
|
|
Mav
Member
[img style="max-width:100%;" alt=" " src="http://www.forumup.it/images/smiles/simo.gif"]
Posts: 10,784
|
Post by Mav on Jan 2, 2013 16:44:06 GMT -8
Apple doesn't act quickly on these matters, I suspect. I would expect at least a couple questions from analysts at the next CC, and that's where you'll get a sense of where Apple's going.
|
|
|
Post by mbeauch on Jan 2, 2013 16:48:30 GMT -8
Well, I am going to join the line to get ignored by Gregg. ;D There is no reason to have that much cash earning nothing. Apple has not announced a "buyback", they are buying shares to stop the creep. that is a big difference. $10 over 3 years is nothing. Saying that Apple dropped after doing these things is just not insightful. Apple missed in July and October and the iphone number for launch weekend was way under all of our expectations. Missing WS consensus is what matters. Peter's game must come to an end. Apple buying its shares gives a safe ROI that creates a floor for shareholders. Apple needs to take it back to 900 million outstanding at the minimum. That would cost roughly 30 billion and could be done in 2 years. Heck could have been done in the last 2 months and cost 5 billion or so less.
|
|
|
Post by artman1033 on Jan 2, 2013 16:59:54 GMT -8
Speaking of apple gurus has any one been following "sirissacnewton" on stock twits. Some pretty informative stuff he puts together mostly using a bloomsberg terminal. Called the close pretty well today and is saying institution buying has been increasing Shhh! Trying to keep it on the down low on what he is showing from his Bloomberg terminal. It's cool stuff, very helpful but probably a no no in the subscription agreement. I wake up each day fearful that is the day someone pulls the plug. I looked into a subscription. It's has custom hardware and could be as much as 2 grand a month depending on what info you want. I am not sure what he is showing is even available to retail investors. It looks like he is selling a service: The Fear and Greed indicator is the spread of two weighted moving averages of the True Range. It is calculated in a way that it oscillates on a zero base line. The indicator provides signals in three ways. 1. A buy signal is generated when Fear (red) turns to Greed (green) and a sell signal is generated when Greed (green) turns to Fear (red) 2. Divergence - when price trends lower and fear reaches higher lows or when price trends higher and greed is at a lower high. These are signs of an exhausted trend. 3. When fear or greed spikes to extreme levels it is signaling the start of a top or bottom The small “A” on the indicator is an alert level. In the above, each A appears when it turns above or below the zero line. Now, I pay $26,000/year for this immensely valuable service. Therefore, in order for me to update you in a timely fashion and help you trade successfully; I do need to charge a modest amount for this service. Therefore, to help subsidize my costs I will charge $100/mo. I know, you wanted and were expecting it for free, right? It costs less than that iPhone of yours. To get started email me at feargreed@myopera.com with the subject line of “SIGN ME UP”. I will then email you with PayPal instructions.
|
|
|
Post by sponge on Jan 2, 2013 17:02:08 GMT -8
I am going on the record to say I have the utmost respect for Nick. I will make a ton of money based on his trading style. Buy below p/e of 13 and only 6-8 months out, and you will do fine. Everyone got the targets wrong in the last 6 months. That is why the stock market is very challenging regardless of past successes. Great close today. Bought more April calls to limit my losses. Also bought CRUS.
|
|
|
Post by lovemyipad on Jan 2, 2013 18:12:35 GMT -8
US politics in the Dungeon please. Thank you.
|
|
|
Post by terps530 on Jan 2, 2013 18:23:14 GMT -8
Shhh! Trying to keep it on the down low on what he is showing from his Bloomberg terminal. It's cool stuff, very helpful but probably a no no in the subscription agreement. I wake up each day fearful that is the day someone pulls the plug. I looked into a subscription. It's has custom hardware and could be as much as 2 grand a month depending on what info you want. I am not sure what he is showing is even available to retail investors. It looks like he is selling a service: The Fear and Greed indicator is the spread of two weighted moving averages of the True Range. It is calculated in a way that it oscillates on a zero base line. The indicator provides signals in three ways. 1. A buy signal is generated when Fear (red) turns to Greed (green) and a sell signal is generated when Greed (green) turns to Fear (red) 2. Divergence - when price trends lower and fear reaches higher lows or when price trends higher and greed is at a lower high. These are signs of an exhausted trend. 3. When fear or greed spikes to extreme levels it is signaling the start of a top or bottom The small “A” on the indicator is an alert level. In the above, each A appears when it turns above or below the zero line. Now, I pay $26,000/year for this immensely valuable service. Therefore, in order for me to update you in a timely fashion and help you trade successfully; I do need to charge a modest amount for this service. Therefore, to help subsidize my costs I will charge $100/mo. I know, you wanted and were expecting it for free, right? It costs less than that iPhone of yours. To get started email me at feargreed@myopera.com with the subject line of “SIGN ME UP”. I will then email you with PayPal instructions. he was teasing us with all those free treats! also i just saw the link to his blog my.opera.com/feargreed/blog/
|
|