crispin
Member
KBJ for the win. AAPL long and strong since 2000
Posts: 311
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Post by crispin on Mar 22, 2020 19:58:35 GMT -8
I’m living in New Zealand at the moment. We’re going into full national lockdown within 48 hours in an effort to get ahead of this thing. We’ve all got to self-isolate for the next four weeks at a minimum. Only essential services will remain open. Fortunately we’ve got a good national health care system here, but it is vulnerable to being overloaded. With one hundred confirmed cases in the country this is the time to try. Whether it’ll be successful or not I’m not sure, though it’s been very refreshing to have adult leadership that took it seriously from the beginning.
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walterwhite
Member
"I am the one who knocks!"... Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 346
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Post by walterwhite on Mar 22, 2020 20:09:31 GMT -8
BTW Firestorm, if SPCE drops into single digits tomorrow, I'm backing up the truck.
ok, what does 'back up the truck' mean? bunch of shares? bull calls? have you backed up the truck on AAPL OTM calls and UPRO?
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walterwhite
Member
"I am the one who knocks!"... Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 346
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Post by walterwhite on Mar 22, 2020 20:12:08 GMT -8
I am with JD all the way. The virus issue is way, way overblown, and the “cure” is much, much worse than the problem. Many millions of people are hurt by the restrictions etc. Some families may be wiped out. For what ? For 500 deaths in the US? 9,000 have died from car accidents since January 1. Close the roads? There is a real issue of course. But there is no exponential growth at all, especially in number of deaths.
same question as for jd... have you backed up the truck on AAPL OTM calls and UPRO (3x leveraged ETF on SPY)?
and what do you think of the current (Republican) administration proposing packages of $1T or $2T or $4T? are they all over-reacting to 'overblown' stuff too? why do you think they're doing that?
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Post by tricouleur on Mar 22, 2020 20:38:44 GMT -8
I say this as an extreme “left” leaning person, who despises trump and most of what he stands for: it’s disappointing to see such personal attacks on JD for beliefs he has, which can validate (from his perspective). Use your data to support your POVs - and if it doesn’t win him over, then it’s fair to accept that he’s also an intelligent person who simply views things differently than you. If feel the reality has been this: if we don’t “overreact” (by minimizing contact), then the otherwise low death rate & health risks will become a high death rate & health risk, due to healthcare strain. However, the economic impact of this “overreaction” will certainly cause a lot of lives to get destroyed, which is also has a damning outcome (likely on health & death as well). It’s reasonable to have a debatable perspective that the lives lost and affected by the economic fallout may be more devastating than the actual underlying illness (even with overrun healthcare). It’s unreasonable to attack people for their thoughtful perspective, when it differs from your thoughtful perspective. Could you define personal attack please because I didn’t see any. I really really would like to educate fellow board members re a serious health threat as someone who worked in an emergency room for three years and as someone who holds a neuroscience PhD. And if someone puts forth ideas that are half-baked, you better believe he/she will be confronted vigorously on the merit of his ideas.
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chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,426
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Post by chinacat on Mar 22, 2020 21:05:52 GMT -8
Sigh...I remember when this board used to be about Apple/AAPL. And don't bother handing me the crap about how COVID-19 affects the markets and Apple/AAPL. Luckychoices recently started a thread dedicated to that subject. I sure hope that most of the posters are more disciplined with their investing than they are with their posts, but somehow I suspect that self-indulgence rules.
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benoir
fire starter
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Posts: 1,318
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Post by benoir on Mar 22, 2020 21:30:30 GMT -8
Sigh...I remember when this board used to be about Apple/AAPL. And don't bother handing me the crap about how COVID-19 affects the markets and Apple/AAPL. Luckychoices recently started a thread dedicated to that subject. I sure hope that most of the posters are more disciplined with their investing than they are with their posts, but somehow I suspect that self-indulgence rules. I feel your frustration. And i think everyone here is frustrated - long or short, left or right. In some ways I think every contribution, whether I think it is balanced or bat shit crazy (from my, likely, myopic perspective), is valid. It all becomes an index of what the general sentiment is. Clearly there is a lot of distraction out there, there is a lot of emotion out there and we see that reflected in the posts. How we act tells us something about how the (AAPL)market is acting in general. The fact that politics has infected this board tells you something of the pervasive sentiment in the market. I don't like it but i still find the discussion here useful as a barometer of what is ahead. There is a lot of pain ahead, both economically and societal. This will eventually pass, I just hope we all get thru.
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platon
Member
"All we can know is that we know nothing. And that's the height of human wisdom.? Tolstoy
Posts: 3,944
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Post by platon on Mar 22, 2020 22:17:30 GMT -8
Posted in Dungeon.
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benoir
fire starter
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Posts: 1,318
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Post by benoir on Mar 22, 2020 23:15:31 GMT -8
Just going on from Platon post,
4 weeks ago there were about 400 deaths globally 3 weeks ago there were about 700 deaths globally (roughly x2 the week before) 2 weeks ago there were about 2100 deaths globally(roughly x3 the week before) last week there were about 8900 deaths. (roughly x4 the week before)
it looks scarily exponential from a global perspective, next week could be very sobering
Lets hope governments, communities and individuals are doing the right thing and that we contain this quickly so that we can make use of Artman again.... (frankly he's not much use at the moment... ;-p )
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chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,426
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Post by chinacat on Mar 23, 2020 4:35:01 GMT -8
I feel your frustration. And i think everyone here is frustrated - long or short, left or right. In some ways I think every contribution, whether I think it is balanced or bat shit crazy (from my, likely, myopic perspective), is valid. It all becomes an index of what the general sentiment is. Clearly there is a lot of distraction out there, there is a lot of emotion out there and we see that reflected in the posts. How we act tells us something about how the (AAPL)market is acting in general. The fact that politics has infected this board tells you something of the pervasive sentiment in the market. I don't like it but i still find the discussion here useful as a barometer of what is ahead. The point is that I can get all of that stuff from the daily paper and TV news. I was attracted to this forum because at that time it was generally populated by intelligent/interesting people who had a special interest in and love of Apple and its products. I can get all that other stuff by turning on the TV or reading the Globe. It’s called intellectual discipline, and it has almost entirely disappeared around here.
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Post by dmiller on Mar 23, 2020 5:00:18 GMT -8
Platon’s post, which I’m not going to quote....
But when you talk about your willingness to “lick doorknobs” to keep Democrat’s out of office (presumably by killing them)... that’s all that needs to be called out.
You should just be kicked off the board for saying that. I’d say more; a lot more; but I’m being civil.
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Post by firestorm on Mar 23, 2020 5:57:27 GMT -8
I say this as an extreme “left” leaning person, who despises trump and most of what he stands for: it’s disappointing to see such personal attacks on JD for beliefs he has, which can validate (from his perspective). Use your data to support your POVs - and if it doesn’t win him over, then it’s fair to accept that he’s also an intelligent person who simply views things differently than you. If feel the reality has been this: if we don’t “overreact” (by minimizing contact), then the otherwise low death rate & health risks will become a high death rate & health risk, due to healthcare strain. However, the economic impact of this “overreaction” will certainly cause a lot of lives to get destroyed, which is also has a damning outcome (likely on health & death as well). It’s reasonable to have a debatable perspective that the lives lost and affected by the economic fallout may be more devastating than the actual underlying illness (even with overrun healthcare). It’s unreasonable to attack people for their thoughtful perspective, when it differs from your thoughtful perspective. JD's statements are attacked because they are politically-filtered opinions, rarely unadulterated facts. He doesn't seem to be a snowflake that melts under the heat, so I wouldn't worry about him. On the other hand, I would worry immensely about America if his prescriptions were taken to heart.
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platon
Member
"All we can know is that we know nothing. And that's the height of human wisdom.? Tolstoy
Posts: 3,944
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Post by platon on Mar 23, 2020 6:07:31 GMT -8
Posted in Dungeon.
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Post by dmiller on Mar 23, 2020 6:10:39 GMT -8
How does “licking doorknobs to keep Democrats out of office” mean anything other than “permanently”? You think that having them sick for 2-3 weeks and then recovered is going to do that?
I don’t think so.
What I called your post out for, and said, stands. It doesn’t take many words or paragraphs to further explain.
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chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,426
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Post by chinacat on Mar 23, 2020 6:26:21 GMT -8
Platon’s post, which I’m not going to quote.... But when you talk about your willingness to “lick doorknobs” to keep Democrat’s out of office (presumably by killing them)... that’s all that needs to be called out. You should just be kicked off the board for saying that. I’d say more; a lot more; but I’m being civil. Be civil, be ugly, I don't care. What you can't stand is that I believe that letting socialists and communists take over the government is more dangerous for the Country long term than either the virus or DJT is. You disagree, you are wrong. If I was willing to go overseas and fight communists (I wasn't sent there) in the 60s why would I not be willing to die to prevent it from coming here now. Just because you either embrace it or are willing to accept it by supporting the Democrats, who have self-proclaimed socialist/communist candidates and politicians (Brennan, Jones, Warren, AOC, others, and of course Sanders, in their party. Half the Country is not on board with that. I am willing to die to protect the COTUS but you are not. Good for you. So you think "presumably" that I said I would "kill" Democrats, that is a lie, I am simply willing to put my life on the line to protect the COTUS from those who would destroy it. I honestly believe that many in the Democrat Party are willing to undermine the COTUS for their own gain and I am willing to do the same thing I did in the 60s to prevent it----join the military and take the oath to defend the COTUS with my life. You don't believe that is the correct path and so your answer is to silence me. No wonder you support those who would seek to implement that silencing across America. You prove my point. I stood across the line from those who inhabit the senior ranks of the Democrat Party of today, I know them. I smelled their stink as they thought they would intimidate, threaten and yes kill those who stood between them and their desire to destroy our system of government. Forgive me if I am a little more bitter and better informed than you about just what the modern Democrat Party stands for in its efforts to change our system of a government. Please the next time you call something out, try and understand what you are calling out first. As usual, your post has almost nothing to do with Apple/AAPL. Please restrict your hateful political rants to the Dungeon and restrict your other posts to the topic and purpose of this forum - Apple, its products, and its financial performance. Thanks in advance for your non-cooperation.
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platon
Member
"All we can know is that we know nothing. And that's the height of human wisdom.? Tolstoy
Posts: 3,944
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Post by platon on Mar 23, 2020 6:27:04 GMT -8
Posted in Dungeon.
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Post by dmiller on Mar 23, 2020 6:30:11 GMT -8
I’m not a robot. And I’ve probably been on AFB2 and its predecessor much longer than you.
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platon
Member
"All we can know is that we know nothing. And that's the height of human wisdom.? Tolstoy
Posts: 3,944
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Post by platon on Mar 23, 2020 6:48:31 GMT -8
As usual, your post has almost nothing to do with Apple/AAPL. Please restrict your hateful political rants to the Dungeon and restrict your other posts to the topic and purpose of this forum - Apple, its products, and its financial performance. Thanks in advance for your non-cooperation. [/quote] This thread went overtly political with this quote by Silkstone: Did you caution him? This is the difference between enforcing the rules fairly and unfairly. I will take my responses to the Dungeon because I am always cooperative but I can assure you the minions who you seem to side with will not be down there to respond nor will you. You can't handle being responded to in the manner that you respond to those who disagree with you.
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platon
Member
"All we can know is that we know nothing. And that's the height of human wisdom.? Tolstoy
Posts: 3,944
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Post by platon on Mar 23, 2020 7:13:35 GMT -8
I’m not a robot. And I’ve probably been on AFB2 and its predecessor much longer than you. My reply is posted in Dungeon.
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platon
Member
"All we can know is that we know nothing. And that's the height of human wisdom.? Tolstoy
Posts: 3,944
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Post by platon on Mar 23, 2020 7:16:45 GMT -8
Be civil, be ugly, I don't care. What you can't stand is that I believe that letting socialists and communists take over the government is more dangerous for the Country long term than either the virus or DJT is. You disagree, you are wrong. If I was willing to go overseas and fight communists (I wasn't sent there) in the 60s why would I not be willing to die to prevent it from coming here now. Just because you either embrace it or are willing to accept it by supporting the Democrats, who have self-proclaimed socialist/communist candidates and politicians (Brennan, Jones, Warren, AOC, others, and of course Sanders, in their party. Half the Country is not on board with that. I am willing to die to protect the COTUS but you are not. Good for you. So you think "presumably" that I said I would "kill" Democrats, that is a lie, I am simply willing to put my life on the line to protect the COTUS from those who would destroy it. I honestly believe that many in the Democrat Party are willing to undermine the COTUS for their own gain and I am willing to do the same thing I did in the 60s to prevent it----join the military and take the oath to defend the COTUS with my life. You don't believe that is the correct path and so your answer is to silence me. No wonder you support those who would seek to implement that silencing across America. You prove my point. I stood across the line from those who inhabit the senior ranks of the Democrat Party of today, I know them. I smelled their stink as they thought they would intimidate, threaten and yes kill those who stood between them and their desire to destroy our system of government. Forgive me if I am a little more bitter and better informed than you about just what the modern Democrat Party stands for in its efforts to change our system of a government. Please the next time you call something out, try and understand what you are calling out first. As usual, your post has almost nothing to do with Apple/AAPL. Please restrict your hateful political rants to the Dungeon and restrict your other posts to the topic and purpose of this forum - Apple, its products, and its financial performance. Thanks in advance for your non-cooperation. I think I cleaned up my posts here. Are you going to force the other overtly political posts and and intentional prevarications to move theirs to the Dungeon as well?
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platon
Member
"All we can know is that we know nothing. And that's the height of human wisdom.? Tolstoy
Posts: 3,944
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Post by platon on Mar 23, 2020 7:25:54 GMT -8
How does “licking doorknobs to keep Democrats out of office” mean anything other than “permanently”? You think that having them sick for 2-3 weeks and then recovered is going to do that? I don’t think so. What I called your post out for, and said, stands. It doesn’t take many words or paragraphs to further explain. My response is in the Dungeon. Thanks to all that participated, you have proved my point.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,182
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Post by JDSoCal on Mar 23, 2020 8:58:10 GMT -8
Fauci is a great American; but he's a scientist, not an economist. He's also not an elected official, so he has no business making policy. He's an advisor who the President should listen to. But the President needs to take several factors into consideration when making policy (e.g., public health, the economy, the Constitution, the will of the people, etc). BTW Firestorm, if SPCE drops into single digits tomorrow, I'm backing up the truck.
ok, what does 'back up the truck' mean? bunch of shares? bull calls? have you backed up the truck on AAPL OTM calls and UPRO? Yes on SPCE, no on AAPL. FFS I am already overweight obese on AAPL. And no I don't buy calls during good times let alone during a crisis. I'm buying select stocks on sale. Not ready to call an SPY bottom.
And yes I oppose minimum wage because it destroys jobs. And not every job should be a "living wage." Some jobs are entry level for young people to get their first jobs. High school and college students. I might trade sick leave *if* it required a doctor's note and we made it a crime to send kids to school with the flu. Would save thousands of lives from seasonal flu. But without doctor's notes, people would just abuse it as vacay, as we've seen in other countries.
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walterwhite
Member
"I am the one who knocks!"... Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 346
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Post by walterwhite on Mar 23, 2020 9:09:03 GMT -8
ok, what does 'back up the truck' mean? bunch of shares? bull calls? have you backed up the truck on AAPL OTM calls and UPRO? Yes on SPCE, no on AAPL. FFS I am already overweight obese on AAPL. And no I don't buy calls during good times let alone during a crisis. I'm buying select stocks on sale. Not ready to call an SPY bottom.
ok, iteresting... all bark and no bite then? you seemed to sound like it was the most irrational / temporary sellof imaginable your strategy is sound (be a stock-picker in a crisis, shares only, don't mess with calls) the only thing i'm surprised about is SPCE... i actually shorted (via put spreads) above $30 and covered at $20... no position now, but would be interesting to end up on opposite sides of the trade and spar with you someday
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,622
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Post by 4aapl on Mar 23, 2020 9:43:48 GMT -8
Thanks for those that tried to stay on topic.
This thread drove away one of our very few people who have volunteered to be moderators, in a place where we attempt to use self-moderation.
Personally I don't see "licking doorknobs in China" as a threat, but rather the risks one is willing to take. Just like I posted 5-7 days ago that I would gladly be a pincushion for the tests of a vaccine, even if that meant then hitting me with the virus. Bring It!
We all need to calm down a bit. That might mean tempering our responses just a little, but that also means not reading malice into posts. Assume the best, unless proven otherwise. FWIW, this was one of the guiding principles that I read of a company where all telecommute.
Let's do better. On topic replies can go in the daily thread, and off topic can be squelched or set to the Dungeon.
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