Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,097
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Post by Dave on Mar 30, 2020 2:44:14 GMT -8
Good morning. Another Monday and another day closer to returning to something that resembles normal. BMW may be first automaker to get Apple CarKey featureMany years ago I remember reading a article that connected the people that used Macs were also drawn to BMWs. I still do. Almost forgot, AAPL is green in pre-market this morning. $1.+
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walterwhite
Member
"I am the one who knocks!"... Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 346
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Post by walterwhite on Mar 30, 2020 7:36:45 GMT -8
Good morning. Another Monday and another day closer to returning to something that resembles normal.
你好! (nǐ hǎo!)
here in my country (united states) things are a looooong way from normal: ....100k-200k death number was floated yesterday and even repeated by our president as doing a 'good job' if the number is lower ....much of the country is in self-isolation and has been that way for 2 weeks, and the president just extended guidelines to april 30 (another month) ....3.3m unemployment claims last week, a number that's likely to increase several-fold and cause unemployment rate higher than the great depression ....fastest bear market on record, and then the fastest bailout.... but still expectations that many companies will go bankrupt
but yeah, markets are green, so that's something...
p.s. hope you're staying home... and that your 'normal' doesn't include going around sneezing on people like hledgard boasted in the weekend thread
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Post by socal Film Composer on Mar 30, 2020 7:56:46 GMT -8
Well, certainly not "normal" in the US at all - but in terms of market action - closer to normal than past string of -10% Monday selloffs -
I was carefully considering today as a possible bellwether as to how the emotion and fear in the market was faring. I'd say we are much closer to exhausting the selling than we were 3-4 weeks ago, and bouncing along a bottom and building a base for risk assets, such as AAPL is a welcome change for a Monday
Monday's tend to be very tough days, and the fact the the president finally actually ADMITTED to the serverity of the situation is a good thing for the markets. The more transparency about the health crisis, the less uncertainty the markets have - just one investor's opinion.
Stay safe and healthy all! thanks for opening the thread Dave
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walterwhite
Member
"I am the one who knocks!"... Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 346
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Post by walterwhite on Mar 30, 2020 8:03:31 GMT -8
blast from the past! a month ago JDSoCal lost a million dollars because of 4 reasons: ...'irrational fear' ...'these fuckos in China' ...'libs' ...people wearing masks
that was with s&p around 3000... it's now at 2600 after a trip down to 2200...
waiting on jd to admit he was wrong, though, is like waiting for godot... latest reason for all our troubles is 'Democrat bozos in NY' we're on the same side of the trade though (at least on AAPL and broader market)... so here's to jd making back that coveted million!
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,628
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Post by 4aapl on Mar 30, 2020 8:30:17 GMT -8
blast from the past! a month ago JDSoCal lost a million dollars because of 4 reasons: ...'irrational fear' ...'these fuckos in China' ...'libs' ...people wearing masks
that was with s&p around 3000... it's now at 2600 after a trip down to 2200...
waiting on jd to admit he was wrong, though, is like waiting for godot... latest reason for all our troubles is 'Democrat bozos in NY' we're on the same side of the trade though (at least on AAPL and broader market)... so here's to jd making back that coveted million! Oh Walter, don't be a jealous hater. The markets go up, and the markets go down. At some point you stop looking at the exact dollar figure, no matter if its 4 figure changes or 8. You did the same thing, 8-14 months ago. Something about tariffs. You were pretty high strung, worrying about the day-to-day changes instead of the longer view, a few months out. We, as a country and as a world, will get through this. That doesn't mean that every day is sunshine and roses. FWIW, it's still cloudy and cold outside, but we're supposed to get some nicer weather soon. Watch Annie. In addition to seeing the funky helicopter that might be right out of the Hiller aviation museum in San Carlos, you get to have an uplifting song stuck in your head for days. "The sun'll come out Tomorrow Bet your bottom dollar That tomorrow There'll be sun! Just thinkin' about Tomorrow Clears away the cobwebs And the sorrow 'Til there's none! When I'm stuck with a day That's grey And lonely I just stick out my chin And grin And say Oh! The sun'll come out Tomorrow So ya gotta hang on 'Til tomorrow Come what may Tomorrow, tomorrow! I love ya tomorrow! You're always A day Away!"
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walterwhite
Member
"I am the one who knocks!"... Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 346
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Post by walterwhite on Mar 30, 2020 11:26:05 GMT -8
Oh Walter, don't be a jealous hater. The markets go up, and the markets go down. At some point you stop looking at the exact dollar figure, no matter if its 4 figure changes or 8. You did the same thing, 8-14 months ago. Something about tariffs. tariffs? am i supposed to LOL? fine, i'll bite... did you read the 2 posts by jd that i linked to? i suggest any arguments we had about the trade war are far from "the same thing" when we now get headlines like these: FEMA sends refrigerator trucks to NYC to serve as temporary mortuaries for coronavirus victims
and it's not always about the fucking money, which was the point of my post above anyway yours truly, jealous hater... who's been relentlessly posting science-based links against dangerous and ignorant "covid-skepticism"
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,628
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Post by 4aapl on Mar 30, 2020 11:57:09 GMT -8
I think we all need to remember that we aren't perfect and we make mistakes, and that fixing them or changing our ways when needed is more important.
I know I thought this would be a lot less of a medical emergency than it is becoming, mainly because I tend to grok something by relating it to something else. But, due to the combination of more complications and deaths, and a higher spreading rate, the original relate didn't end up being a very good analogy.
We all make mistakes, along with having our own strengths and weaknesses. But we can also work to fix our mistakes, and at least understand our weaknesses.
Where's that Sun?
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,182
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Post by JDSoCal on Mar 30, 2020 12:31:32 GMT -8
blast from the past! a month ago JDSoCal lost a million dollars because of 4 reasons: ...'irrational fear' ...'these fuckos in China' ...'libs' ...people wearing masks
that was with s&p around 3000... it's now at 2600 after a trip down to 2200...
waiting on jd to admit he was wrong, though, is like waiting for godot... latest reason for all our troubles is 'Democrat bozos in NY' we're on the same side of the trade though (at least on AAPL and broader market)... so here's to jd making back that coveted million! Again, it's impressive how you dance between virtue signaling and hectoring us evil Republicans that we care more about our portfolios than everyone's grandmas and we're not properly feewing everyone's pain, and the next minute you are tee-hee-ing that I lost the dead pool. That classic liberal caring and compassion. On a related note, it's amazing the things I see from the supposedly caring and compassionate liberals on social media literally LOL-ing that airlines are going to go out of business, haha suck it shareholders! I truly believe people on my side of the aisle have more empathy than the left, at least for decent, hard-working, risk taking Americans who play by the rules (versus criminals and illegal aliens). I know you are trolling in bad faith Walter, and don't really want a real discussion; but again, I'll ask for the third time, WHAT NUMBER OF DEATHS WOULD BE A "WIN" for THE WORST PLAGUE EVER™? That's fine that you just want to try to bait me, because I am actually being quite productive these days and don't have time to argue on the Internet. Lots of home and personal improvement projects going on. But for those who do want my take... I realize that liberals are the side of the aisle that thinks Mike Bloomberg could give every American a million dollars, but I STILL don't consider 2,800 deaths some black plague genocide. Even 10X that is an average season of flu deaths. And what day does the exponential growth start again? As in 2800 x 2800? I'm still not wearing a mask in public like pusillanimous liberals and nobody I know is. I still have great anger for that ass-backward Chinese government and subcultures that caused all of this (to distinguish from civilized Chinese in Hong Kong and Taiwan who look down upon the uncouth bat-eating rabble in less developed areas). China lied and covered up and libs like Walter who are parroting their bullshit numbers just enables them to deceive further. So yeah when I see our very abused visa and immigration system flood my country with Chinese nationals wearing masks, it pisses me off and has nothing to do with their race. Honestly race is a bullshit political concept with no basis in science and no good ever comes from a discussion of it, but I digress. I am still of the opinion that all of this self-immolation of the economy is a huge overreaction unless and until we crack at least 50,000 deaths (worst seasonal flu year). The truth is, statistics can be very misleading. Believe it or not, the overall mortality rates in the US and in New York are actually down right now (less people are driving and out killing each other with clubs and other weapons). So for the math-challenged, less people in the US have died during this "crisis" than this time last year. Turns out, living life has risks, even without pandemics. We tolerate 30-40,000 deaths a year from car accidents and never even bat an eye. Where is "but but grandma!!!" for those lives lost? I am surprised I have to even mention here of all places that models (in this case, of cases and deaths) are wild-assed guesstimates. A model is a hypothesis, not data. It's dart throwing, just like with the earnings predictions. So I'll believe six-figures of deaths if and when they happen, not when they are a game of Spongesque guesses. That's my long-winded attorney way of saying I remain of the general opinions I held at the time of the posts Walter linked to. I believe the jury is still out whether this shutdown of life and civil liberties and the economy was worth it. And at the end of it all (I mean the virus and the response thereto, not the apocalypse and end times), be sure everyone that you take into account the suicide rates and other morbidities that will rise if we go into a depression and millions are suddenly jobless and homeless. Good luck and prayers to all.
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Ted
fire starter
Posts: 882
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Post by Ted on Mar 30, 2020 12:45:03 GMT -8
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Post by lulli on Mar 30, 2020 13:48:53 GMT -8
The sad thing is that the "chinese girl" JD was talking about was probably wearing a mask to protect him.... in china when you get a cold you put on a mask in order not to transmit your stuff to others, and she could have had that. And anyhow, epidemiologically if everybody had masks it would be better if everybody would wear them, because then the masks catch the droplets from those who are infected but don't know it yet...
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Post by Luckychoices on Mar 30, 2020 13:59:56 GMT -8
I am surprised I have to even mention here of all places that models (in this case, of cases and deaths) are wild-assed guesstimates. A model is a hypothesis, not data. It's dart throwing, just like with the earnings predictions. So I'll believe six-figures of deaths if and when they happen, not when they are a game of Spongesque guesses. All models are wrong, some are useful--- George E.P. Box
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bud777
fire starter
Posts: 1,352
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Post by bud777 on Mar 30, 2020 14:54:37 GMT -8
blast from the past! a month ago JDSoCal lost a million dollars because of 4 reasons: ...'irrational fear' ...'these fuckos in China' ...'libs' ...people wearing masks
that was with s&p around 3000... it's now at 2600 after a trip down to 2200...
waiting on jd to admit he was wrong, though, is like waiting for godot... latest reason for all our troubles is 'Democrat bozos in NY' we're on the same side of the trade though (at least on AAPL and broader market)... so here's to jd making back that coveted million! Again, it's impressive how you dance between virtue signaling and hectoring us evil Republicans that we care more about our portfolios than everyone's grandmas and we're not properly feewing everyone's pain, and the next minute you are tee-hee-ing that I lost the dead pool. That classic liberal caring and compassion. On a related note, it's amazing the things I see from the supposedly caring and compassionate liberals on social media literally LOL-ing that airlines are going to go out of business, haha suck it shareholders! I truly believe people on my side of the aisle have more empathy than the left, at least for decent, hard-working, risk taking Americans who play by the rules (versus criminals and illegal aliens). I know you are trolling in bad faith Walter, and don't really want a real discussion; but again, I'll ask for the third time, WHAT NUMBER OF DEATHS WOULD BE A "WIN" for THE WORST PLAGUE EVER™? That's fine that you just want to try to bait me, because I am actually being quite productive these days and don't have time to argue on the Internet. Lots of home and personal improvement projects going on. But for those who do want my take... I realize that liberals are the side of the aisle that thinks Mike Bloomberg could give every American a million dollars, but I STILL don't consider 2,800 deaths some black plague genocide. Even 10X that is an average season of flu deaths. And what day does the exponential growth start again? As in 2800 x 2800? I'm still not wearing a mask in public like pusillanimous liberals and nobody I know is. I still have great anger for that ass-backward Chinese government and subcultures that caused all of this (to distinguish from civilized Chinese in Hong Kong and Taiwan who look down upon the uncouth bat-eating rabble in less developed areas). China lied and covered up and libs like Walter who are parroting their bullshit numbers just enables them to deceive further. So yeah when I see our very abused visa and immigration system flood my country with Chinese nationals wearing masks, it pisses me off and has nothing to do with their race. Honestly race is a bullshit political concept with no basis in science and no good ever comes from a discussion of it, but I digress. I am still of the opinion that all of this self-immolation of the economy is a huge overreaction unless and until we crack at least 50,000 deaths (worst seasonal flu year). The truth is, statistics can be very misleading. Believe it or not, the overall mortality rates in the US and in New York are actually down right now (less people are driving and out killing each other with clubs and other weapons). So for the math-challenged, less people in the US have died during this "crisis" than this time last year. Turns out, living life has risks, even without pandemics. We tolerate 30-40,000 deaths a year from car accidents and never even bat an eye. Where is "but but grandma!!!" for those lives lost? I am surprised I have to even mention here of all places that models (in this case, of cases and deaths) are wild-assed guesstimates. A model is a hypothesis, not data. It's dart throwing, just like with the earnings predictions. So I'll believe six-figures of deaths if and when they happen, not when they are a game of Spongesque guesses. That's my long-winded attorney way of saying I remain of the general opinions I held at the time of the posts Walter linked to. I believe the jury is still out whether this shutdown of life and civil liberties and the economy was worth it. And at the end of it all (I mean the virus and the response thereto, not the apocalypse and end times), be sure everyone that you take into account the suicide rates and other morbidities that will rise if we go into a depression and millions are suddenly jobless and homeless. Good luck and prayers to all.
Uh, J.D. Buddy, this kind of shit ain't helping no one
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walterwhite
Member
"I am the one who knocks!"... Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 346
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Post by walterwhite on Mar 30, 2020 15:11:59 GMT -8
blast from the past! a month ago JDSoCal lost a million dollars because of 4 reasons: ...'irrational fear' ...'these fuckos in China' ...'libs' ...people wearing masks
that was with s&p around 3000... it's now at 2600 after a trip down to 2200...
waiting on jd to admit he was wrong, though, is like waiting for godot... latest reason for all our troubles is 'Democrat bozos in NY' we're on the same side of the trade though (at least on AAPL and broader market)... so here's to jd making back that coveted million! I know you are trolling in bad faith Walter, and don't really want a real discussion; but again, I'll ask for the third time, WHAT NUMBER OF DEATHS WOULD BE A "WIN" for THE WORST PLAGUE EVER™? ... I'm still not wearing a mask in public like pusillanimous liberals and nobody I know is. ... That's my long-winded attorney way of saying I remain of the general opinions I held at the time of the posts Walter linked to.
pardon me if i didn't notice the other two times you asked the nonsensical question above, but since you got my attention, the answer is: AS FEW AS POSSIBLE... that would be a "WIN" in your terminology
since you won't give up without actual numbers, though, i'll just refrain back to my original guess of less than 12.5k deaths, though that was already a realization of a rather uncomfortable reality
and that assumed pretty significant social distancing, which we now thankfully have... i'm glad trump is doing the right thing and not removing guidelines prematurely... italy has been a vivid picture of what happens when the health system is overwhelmed, the US thankfully hasn't reached that point
in an alternative universe, the one you apparently prefer, where there was NO social distancing put in place, it is evident that the disease would continue unabated until getting 50%+ of the population sick.... at that point death rate would be far about 1%, and it wouldn't be just grandmas (because our healthcare system would be completely overwhelmed)... people would be dying horrible deaths at home, gasping for air because there aren't enough ventilators for millions of severe cases... italy's death rate has been ~10%... even assuming they severely under-counted cases, the death rate after healthcare system is overwhelmed is higher than before, that's just common sense... even "just 2%" of 50% of the country is 1% of the population, or 3-4m deaths.
so it always boiled down to two choices: 1. treat this seriously, and change your mind as new data came in (as well as trust opinions of experts) and maybe we have less deaths than flu
2. dismiss this, go around and party, punch mask-wearers in the face, and the shocking death toll (millions of americans) would only be surpassed by unimaginable amount of suffering (as again, this ain't the flu)
i wondered, jd, what it would take for you to admit you were wrong and switch to #1 from #2... apparently you need "THE NUMBER" (as in, number of deaths) before you even consider doing so
disappointing
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Post by BillH on Mar 30, 2020 15:41:10 GMT -8
I own a house in Key West. My brother is two doors away but we both share a pool along with 10 others. My brother is in JD's camp and was talking in an extended family thread about how Key West needs to open up if only for the locals. There are only 13 confirmed cases of Corona in KW to date. The threads for the past few weeks seem a little detached in some respects to me so I thought I'd share how I responded to my brother re: something that is a little more up close and personal.
Me: So I’m going to beat a dead horse for clarity sake. Sure Mark. Go out into the world and pick up the virus in someplace nobody expects it to be, bring it back to the compound and go swimming in the pool. Don’t forget to grab the handrail in and getting out. Or...,STAY THE FUCK AT HOME!!!!
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Post by hledgard on Mar 30, 2020 15:51:15 GMT -8
I fully support JD's post.
I originally predicted fewer than 2,000 deaths, so I was clearly wrong on that. But like JD, I have been thinking of what kind of numbers would convince me that this is a big problem worth shutting the country down. I will take JD's number 50,00.
So many of his points are precisely mine. The number of car deaths is about 35,000, and no one proposes closing the roads.
And for "I truly believe people on my side of the aisle have more empathy than the left, at least for decent, hard-working, risk taking Americans who play by the rules ". that is me.
And my big point. Millions and millions of people are hurt by all the restrictions on the economy. And is all this really helping much to solve the problem?
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Post by firestorm on Mar 30, 2020 16:26:29 GMT -8
I am simply astounded by all the" right-wing virtue signaling" today. Dear leader was wrong when he predicted early eradication, and wrong on every other step in dealing with this virus. Yet the death toll keeps climbing, and climbing, and Fauci estimates a death toll of 100,000 to 200,000 Americans if everything goes right. Without the social distancing promoted by governors, it could well be be an order of magnitude higher. And no one yet knows what the remnant lung damage will be. But every conservative I know repeats the mantra that it's no worse than the yearly flu, the same argument that the Fox & Rush Industrial Complex has been spewing from day one. Groupthink has never been stronger, and it doesn't matter if the right-winger repeating the assertions is a hillbilly or a pseudo-intellectual indoctrinated at Hillsdale College. At least an arrest warrant has been issued for the southern preacher who encouraged his Koolaid drinkers to come to services each Sunday, despite orders to the contrary.
I personally do not expect the stock market to return to normalcy until next year; there is just too much uncertainty about the virus and the effects on the economy have "only just begun," as a famous Carpenter once sang.
But I have my second Mac of the year on order from B & H, so I'm doing my part to hold it all together.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,182
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Post by JDSoCal on Mar 30, 2020 16:30:33 GMT -8
See, this is the chickenshit we are dealing with from liberals. It's so much easier to just say general snarky bullshit about Trump's leadership than point to an actual number that, if we beat or didn't beat, would give us some metric of how we all performed when this is over. As I predicted some time ago, there is no such number any of you are willing to commit to because this isn't about good faith discussion, it's about weaponizing the crisis to dunk on Trump and Republicans. Again, the guy tee-hee-ing about my dead pool loss is suddenly jumping back to virtue signaling about my "win" semantics. Liberalism truly is a like Jack Nicholson said in As Good As It Gets, "think of a man, and take away reason and accountability." I'm done with you Walter. Rather than waste more valuable time with your bad faith that I could workout or BBQ, I will simply ignore your silliness going forward. Uh, J.D. Buddy, this kind of shit ain't helping no one I'm sorry/not sorry Bud, but I think liberals have that oh-so-helpful nitpicky snark covered. This is hilarious. No matter what Trump does, we hear liberals poo-poo it and say dur hur dumb Orange Drumpf, even after it's been vindicated (e.g., early travel bans, chloroquine, partnering with the private sector instead of vilifying them like FDR did for a decade, etc). But I'm not helpful. Coincidentally I was going to post that it would be so helpful if Democrats would stop being such resistance dicks for 10 minutes and support the President and his team since we're all in this together. But same ol' snarky bullshit from CNN, Pelosi, and liberals all over social media. Anyway, here's a great Twitter thread for those who don't simultaneously believe that everything Trump says is a lie, but also hector that we unhelpful heretics must not question the government's athoratay; why are two countries who haven't shit themselves with "social distancing" (Sweden and Japan) not had high death rates?
Cheers, off to my brisket.
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Post by firestorm on Mar 30, 2020 16:46:25 GMT -8
See, this is the chickenshit we are dealing with from liberals. It's so much easier to just say general snarky bullshit about Trump's leadership than point to an actual number that, if we beat or didn't beat, would give us some metric of how we all performed when this is over. As I predicted some time ago, there is no such number any of you are willing to commit to because this isn't about good faith discussion, it's about weaponizing the crisis to dunk on Trump and Republicans. Again, the guy tee-hee-ing about my dead pool loss is suddenly jumping back to virtue signaling about my "win" semantics. Liberalism truly is a like Jack Nicholson said in As Good As It Gets, "think of a man, and take away reason and accountability." I'm done with you Walter. Rather than waste more valuable time with your bad faith that I could workout or BBQ, I will simply ignore your silliness going forward. Uh, J.D. Buddy, this kind of shit ain't helping no one I'm sorry/not sorry Bud, but I think liberals have that oh-so-helpful nitpicky snark covered. This is hilarious. No matter what Trump does, we hear liberals poo-poo it and say dur hur dumb Orange Drumpf, even after it's been vindicated (e.g., early travel bans, chloroquine, partnering with the private sector instead of vilifying them like FDR did for a decade, etc). But I'm not helpful. Coincidentally I was going to post that it would be so helpful if Democrats would stop being such resistance dicks for 10 minutes and support the President and his team since we're all in this together. But same ol' snarky bullshit from CNN, Pelosi, and liberals all over social media. Anyway, here's a great Twitter thread for those who don't simultaneously believe that everything Trump says is a lie, but also hector that we unhelpful heretics must not question the government's athoratay; why are two countries who haven't shit themselves with "social distancing" (Sweden and Japan) not had high death rates? Cheers, off to my brisket.
Every day, in every way, you repeat the same old crap from Rush & Sean & Newt & Laura & on & on, and yet you want us to believe that you never pay attention to them. Interesting that 93% of New Yorkers think that Cuomo is responding effectively to the crisis, but only 51% of Americans think trump is responding effectively. And of your 51%, all have been deluded and deceived. Cheers, off to my arugula and kale.
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Post by hledgard on Mar 30, 2020 16:57:00 GMT -8
PS I wish I had a reference for this. But, since the cat is out of the bag, closing the economy and cancelling events may have no real impact. The main thing to do is to provide the help needed to all who get sick. That is a real issue.
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Post by firestorm on Mar 30, 2020 17:22:09 GMT -8
I think we all need to remember that we aren't perfect and we make mistakes, and that fixing them or changing our ways when needed is more important. I know I thought this would be a lot less of a medical emergency than it is becoming, mainly because I tend to grok something by relating it to something else. But, due to the combination of more complications and deaths, and a higher spreading rate, the original relate didn't end up being a very good analogy. We all make mistakes, along with having our own strengths and weaknesses. But we can also work to fix our mistakes, and at least understand our weaknesses. Where's that Sun? Wow, the world just stood still and unicorns danced across rainbows: a conservative admitted he might have been a little bit mistaken!
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Post by pauls on Mar 30, 2020 17:34:21 GMT -8
I am simply astounded by all the" right-wing virtue signaling" today. Dear leader was wrong when he predicted early eradication, and wrong on every other step in dealing with this virus. Yet the death toll keeps climbing, and climbing, and Fauci estimates a death toll of 100,000 to 200,000 Americans if everything goes right. Without the social distancing promoted by governors, it could well be be an order of magnitude higher. And no one yet knows what the remnant lung damage will be. But every conservative I know repeats the mantra that it's no worse than the yearly flu, the same argument that the Fox & Rush Industrial Complex has been spewing from day one. Groupthink has never been stronger, and it doesn't matter if the right-winger repeating the assertions is a hillbilly or a pseudo-intellectual indoctrinated at Hillsdale College. At least an arrest warrant has been issued for the southern preacher who encouraged his Koolaid drinkers to come to services each Sunday, despite orders to the contrary. I personally do not expect the stock market to return to normalcy until next year; there is just too much uncertainty about the virus and the effects on the economy have "only just begun," as a famous Carpenter once sang. But I have my second Mac of the year on order from B & H, so I'm doing my part to hold it all together. Solid post. I just ordered our second mac of the year as well as a 2nd pair of the premium AirPods. At some point not long from now, they will be writing text books on this Pandemic, and a timeline of various countries response. What a shit show. Yesterday was the first time I heard any sense from the President-- that it's going to take longer, with a lot more infection and death. He'd been defying science and finally, grudgingly, accepted what the scientists have been saying. I expect within a couple for days we will be back to the behind the scenes in-fighting, and doubling down on hostility to certain individual states, and all out war with 90 percent of news media. The demonizing of hard working, award winning career journalists is a factor in this shitshow that is now accepted as normal. Meanwhile, conservative bloggers are lofted to policy positions,. As the leader of a divided nation, he is a massive fail. And this isn't political, this is the real time twitter record of our current president. His supporters don't seem to follow him on Twitter. He's a hot mess, historically speaking.
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crispin
Member
KBJ for the win. AAPL long and strong since 2000
Posts: 311
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Post by crispin on Mar 30, 2020 17:46:06 GMT -8
At least chronically-wrong “close to airtight” Kudlow finally all but admitted he didn’t know what the hell he was talking about. I doubt we’ll ever see anything approaching contrition from the Choleric Crybaby. It’ll always be someone else’s fault - probably Obama, or the “libs,” or New York... It’d be hysterical if it wasn’t so pathetic. Sadly the damage has largely been done by the deniers, gaslighters, and propagandists of the right wing machine. We’re in a much worse position to fight this virus because of these people and their flock of anti-science dullards. Lack of federal level leadership has created a crazy patchwork of lockdowns, semi-lockdowns, and advisories that virtually guarantees this will last for months, if not longer. Ironically, if the Faux News chorus hadn’t been so intent on minimizing the risk from the beginning, we might’ve been able to get ahead of it and greatly reduce the impact both on health and economy of the country. As it stands I see a prolonged period of pain unfortunately. Hope everyone can ride out the storm for a while.
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Post by firestorm on Mar 30, 2020 17:53:07 GMT -8
Interesting that a lot of right-wingers are pointing to Sweden, of all places, as a model for how to deal with the crisis. Perhaps they are liking some of that socialism.
By the way, here is how the rural people of Washington State [not near Seattle] used the Swedish technique to deal with the virus, by just going about their daily activities:
"With the coronavirus quickly spreading in Washington state in early March, leaders of the Skagit Valley Chorale in Mount Vernon debated whether to go ahead with weekly rehearsal. The virus was already killing people in the Seattle area, about an hour’s drive to the south. But Skagit County hadn’t reported any cases, schools and businesses remained open, and prohibitions on large gatherings had yet to be announced.
Sixty singers showed up. A greeter offered hand sanitizer at the door, and members refrained from the usual hugs and handshakes. Nearly three weeks later, 45 have been diagnosed with COVID-19 or ill with the symptoms, at least three have been hospitalized, and two are dead.
The outbreak has stunned county health officials, who have concluded that the virus was almost certainly transmitted through the air from one or more people without symptoms."
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Post by firestorm on Mar 30, 2020 17:54:48 GMT -8
Thank you to everyone, right, left, and me, for staying so tightly on topic, with no political arguments. Tee Hee!
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Post by podboy on Mar 30, 2020 18:09:54 GMT -8
This whole board has gone to shit. Name calling & I told you so’s has made this place a cesspool. Here’s to better days, ATH’s, and paging Artman.
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Post by BillH on Mar 30, 2020 18:39:52 GMT -8
Interesting that a lot of right-wingers are pointing to Sweden, of all places, as a model for how to deal with the crisis. Perhaps they are liking some of that socialism. By the way, here is how the rural people of Washington State [not near Seattle] used the Swedish technique to deal with the virus, by just going about their daily activities: "With the coronavirus quickly spreading in Washington state in early March, leaders of the Skagit Valley Chorale in Mount Vernon debated whether to go ahead with weekly rehearsal. The virus was already killing people in the Seattle area, about an hour’s drive to the south. But Skagit County hadn’t reported any cases, schools and businesses remained open, and prohibitions on large gatherings had yet to be announced. Sixty singers showed up. A greeter offered hand sanitizer at the door, and members refrained from the usual hugs and handshakes. Nearly three weeks later, 45 have been diagnosed with COVID-19 or ill with the symptoms, at least three have been hospitalized, and two are dead. The outbreak has stunned county health officials, who have concluded that the virus was almost certainly transmitted through the air from one or more people without symptoms." As a former choir boy of more than 50 years gone by I wonder if they checked the sheet music. It's often passed out at the beginning of practice. :-o
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Post by BillH on Mar 30, 2020 18:44:04 GMT -8
This whole board has gone to shit. Name calling & I told you so’s has made this place a cesspool. Here’s to better days, ATH’s, and paging Artman. It's kind of always been this way pod boy. Maybe not with this severity but you're dealing with a lot of type A people here that are adamant in their positions and quite happy to tell you those. Remember, liking is "because" and loving is "in spite of." .
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Post by podboy on Mar 30, 2020 19:05:11 GMT -8
This whole board has gone to shit. Name calling & I told you so’s has made this place a cesspool. Here’s to better days, ATH’s, and paging Artman. It's kind of always been this way pod boy. Maybe not with this severity but you're dealing with a lot of type A people here that are adamant in their positions and quite happy to tell you those. Remember, liking is "because" and loving is "in spite of." . I was around during the old AFB days before we migrated to proboards & it’s never been this bad. What we all have to realize is that no amount of facts or ‘truth’ will ever persuade a republican to become democrat and vice versa. I’d much rather have Sponge back making tin-foil hat projections. At least he was making projections on the stock and not just regurgitating venom.
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,628
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Post by 4aapl on Mar 30, 2020 20:14:31 GMT -8
I think we all need to remember that we aren't perfect and we make mistakes, and that fixing them or changing our ways when needed is more important. I know I thought this would be a lot less of a medical emergency than it is becoming, mainly because I tend to grok something by relating it to something else. But, due to the combination of more complications and deaths, and a higher spreading rate, the original relate didn't end up being a very good analogy. We all make mistakes, along with having our own strengths and weaknesses. But we can also work to fix our mistakes, and at least understand our weaknesses. Where's that Sun? Wow, the world just stood still and unicorns danced across rainbows: a conservative admitted he might have been a little bit mistaken! That's funny right there! I wish it was so easy, to just feel completely biased one way and never have to even think about, let alone change, your leaning. Instead, I've found it is never going to be that easy, since I just don't agree with all of either parties choices on the hot topic items. Abortion, gun control, big government, gay marriage, immigration, taxes, religion. There's more, but that's a nice swath. Now, there are people that feel strongly enough about one of those things that they don't worry about the rest. My former neighbors who are gay felt strongly enough about taxes that they basically voted against their personal rights. Damn, that's conviction! But this constant bickering just reminds me of my Mac vs PC discussions as a college kid, where I couldn't recognize the potential reasoning of the other side, at any cost. They were just wrong, making a stupid choice. Or that of someone just too damn old to change his mind, so set in his ways and life experiences to even bother to think any other way. It's entertaining at times, but more in line with the humor of watching a puppy chase its tail. If there were actually some real AAPL news going on, I'd toss this all into the pit and move on. But really, there's not, and we're all just trying to grapple with what's going on. It's easy to blame it all on someone or even just brand a political party as the problem. But if you were objectively doing so, you'd have to think about how all those kids on spring break are going to vote, or like JD said about the objections to locking down travel from China. Instead, maybe you realize there are lots missteps to go around, and instead of focusing on what didn't go well, you focus on what can be done going forward. Now that would cause unicorns to dance on rainbows. Let's see it!
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4aapl
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Posts: 3,628
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Post by 4aapl on Mar 30, 2020 20:44:34 GMT -8
It's so much easier to just say general snarky bullshit about Trump's leadership than point to an actual number that, if we beat or didn't beat, would give us some metric of how we all performed when this is over. As I predicted some time ago, there is no such number any of you are willing to commit to because this isn't about good faith discussion, it's about weaponizing the crisis to dunk on Trump and Republicans. ... This is hilarious. No matter what Trump does, we hear liberals poo-poo it and say dur hur dumb Orange Drumpf, even after it's been vindicated (e.g., early travel bans, chloroquine, partnering with the private sector instead of vilifying them like FDR did for a decade, etc). But I'm not helpful. Coincidentally I was going to post that it would be so helpful if Democrats would stop being such resistance dicks for 10 minutes and support the President and his team since we're all in this together. But same ol' snarky bullshit from CNN, Pelosi, and liberals all over social media. I might not agree with the way JD says it at times, but he's not wrong on this. Firestorm even laughed at me saying it, that all people, on both sides, need to realize that they and others didn't do things perfectly, and never will. But instead many are so set it their ways that they can't possibly fantom a possibility that someone could choose to make things better. Why do we have a nation divided? Would working together during a time of need really be that terrible? Some people say that one of the quirks about Steve Jobs was that he could turn on a dime, taking the other side quickly if he saw the logic. I don't expect anyone here to flip-flop on politics like that, and it appears there's more than one here that's ready to chuck insults at you if you did. But at least give a minute to trying to see the other side, while at the same time quantifying what it would take to do something well. Few are likely to change their mind enough to change their vote, but it may just give you a little insight and make you not blindly throw so much hate. If that still doesn't help, think of it as an exercise for The Art of War or How to Drive your Competition Crazy. Steve liked that stuff.
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