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Post by phoebear611 on Jan 10, 2013 10:21:32 GMT -8
AAPL doesn't care about the stock? Maybe but they seem to have come out here now and then with a few little tidbits to the public. Could be my imagination but it seems that way. And by the way - it's not like they should worry about day traders but OVER a 25% stock drop. If you are a CEO and you aren't even the least bit bothered...there's a problem. I'm not suggesting he needs to do anything in a panic - it's NOT that type of situation but AAPL makes commentary now and then ("Don't bet against us.") so if you are going to tease....you better deliver...or at least that's what the boys in high school said (just kidding...but had to say it )
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Post by mace on Jan 10, 2013 10:22:57 GMT -8
... This "cheaper iPhone" story is really gaining steam .... I would normally say no way as Apple has a reputation of NOT going after the lower end market with regards to their computers BUT as Apple learned years ago market share is very important .... I'm still in the "not gonna happen" camp For iPod, Apple eventually went for the lower end market with iPod shuffle. For Mac, Apple bowed to popular demand and introduced Mac Mini. The "cheaper iPhone" could be a device that work with iPod touch, iPod touch as an optional display for the phone - Is that possible?
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Post by rob_london on Jan 10, 2013 10:25:01 GMT -8
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Post by fas550 on Jan 10, 2013 10:32:35 GMT -8
... This "cheaper iPhone" story is really gaining steam .... I would normally say no way as Apple has a reputation of NOT going after the lower end market with regards to their computers BUT as Apple learned years ago market share is very important .... I'm still in the "not gonna happen" camp For iPod, Apple eventually went for the lower end market with iPod shuffle. For Mac, Apple bowed to popular demand and introduced Mac Mini. The "cheaper iPhone" could be a device that work with iPod touch, iPod touch as an optional display for the phone - Is that possible? All the time maintaining quality and margins. It's not about cheap low end it's about an unlocked smartphone with a price point where a large consumer base exists, more likely the middle.
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Post by fas550 on Jan 10, 2013 10:36:02 GMT -8
I am guessing he was being asked and answering in English :-)
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Post by mstefa on Jan 10, 2013 10:42:04 GMT -8
... I see an increase in dividend and higher buy backs. But if Apple really wants to kill off the short term players and hedge funds for at least the next 36 months, they need to split the stock ... Increase in dividend , likely be done annually. higher buy backs , except for countering dilution. split the stock hope so. so help me out here: split the stock , and then buy it back to lower the number? increase stock ,decrease EPS, buy back to increase EPS. Cash spent . my head is hurting.
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Post by mace on Jan 10, 2013 10:44:19 GMT -8
Your head has horns .
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bud777
fire starter
Posts: 1,352
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Post by bud777 on Jan 10, 2013 10:48:18 GMT -8
Sometimes you just have to rant. i have been holding it together, but I think i have reached a limit. Forgive me or ignore me, but I want to get this out.
First, given the 200 point drop when everything, EVERYTHING, points to a whole new level of profitability, makes me think there is a complete disconnect between fundamentals and stock price. We all know this and the cognitive dissonance is maddening, but given this, we STILL hold on to the hope of rational behavior. The historical fact is that this could be a blow out quarter for Apple and the stock can drop another 200 points. There is nothing sacred about a P/E of 11. If the stock can be manipulated from a P/E or 16 to a P/E of 11 with the kind of growth we have seen, it can be manipulated to a P/E of 6. The market is broken and there is no one who is going to fix it.
Secondly, I am sick to death of watching Samsung and Amazon be rewarded. I have a modest proposal for Apple. Create a company to attack the low cost market. Build cheap phones and subsidize them to half the cost of anything by Samsung. Completely rip off everything Samsung does. Call the flagship product the Garaxy SIII. Let them sue, we can stall in the courts for years. If someone wants a real phone, we will give them a full tradein credit on a iPhone5. But give them the good software and get them hooked into the ecosystem. Since we are losing money on every phone, the Amazon logic should apply and improve the stock price. The only problem is we don't want to cheapen the brand, so we really should form a new company to do this with a different name....maybe something like Crapple.
OK, there. I feel better.
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Post by phoebear611 on Jan 10, 2013 10:51:29 GMT -8
I thought I had seen everything and to be quite frank - there is nothing that could ever surprise me - but the article just posted at Yahoo Finance about teens thinking that Surface and Galaxy are much cooler than AAPL tablets and that AAPL is for their parents generation is so outrageous and over the top that I am having the biggest hissy fit imaginable. WTF has the world gone mad?
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Post by alice on Jan 10, 2013 10:51:59 GMT -8
Rant some more. I like it.
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Post by appledoc on Jan 10, 2013 11:01:12 GMT -8
I thought I had seen everything and to be quite frank - there is nothing that could ever surprise me - but the article just posted at Yahoo Finance about teens thinking that Surface and Galaxy are much cooler than AAPL tablets and that AAPL is for their parents generation is so outrageous and over the top that I am having the biggest hissy fit imaginable. WTF has the world gone mad? Yeah, but that's all BS. Find a kid in high school and ask him what phone he and all his friends have. It's an iPhone.
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Post by appledoc on Jan 10, 2013 11:02:37 GMT -8
If you think a cut to 875 is bad then you should wait and see the cuts in the next 2 weeks to below 750. That's fine. When the uber bulls start truly cutting their targets, that's the bottom. A $25 cut is not a cut. When I saw he cut the target, I was hoping it was going to be well into the $700s.
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Post by fas550 on Jan 10, 2013 11:02:47 GMT -8
Sometimes you just have to rant. i have been holding it together, but I think i have reached a limit. Forgive me or ignore me, but I want to get this out. First, given the 200 point drop when everything, EVERYTHING, points to a whole new level of profitability, makes me think there is a complete disconnect between fundamentals and stock price. We all know this and the cognitive dissonance is maddening, but given this, we STILL hold on to the hope of rational behavior. The historical fact is that this could be a blow out quarter for Apple and the stock can drop another 200 points. There is nothing sacred about a P/E of 11. If the stock can be manipulated from a P/E or 16 to a P/E of 11 with the kind of growth we have seen, it can be manipulated to a P/E of 6. The market is broken and there is no one who is going to fix it. Secondly, I am sick to death of watching Samsung and Amazon be rewarded. I have a modest proposal for Apple. Create a company to attack the low cost market. Build cheap phones and subsidize them to half the cost of anything by Samsung. Completely rip off everything Samsung does. Call the flagship product the Garaxy SIII. Let them sue, we can stall in the courts for years. If someone wants a real phone, we will give them a full tradein credit on a iPhone5. But give them the good software and get them hooked into the ecosystem. Since we are losing money on every phone, the Amazon logic should apply and improve the stock price. The only problem is we don't want to cheapen the brand, so we really should form a new company to do this with a different name....maybe something like Crapple. OK, there. I feel better. Understand your frustration. I too believe the disconnect from the fundamentals has never, NEVER been wider. I bought Apple about 5 years ago with the belief that yes it was a stock often traded on sentiment BUT that cash don't lie and eventually that cash hoard becomes just too difficult to ignore. Also being in tech I monitor the competition closely, really closely and to the best of my investigative ability cannot see competition. This is really frustrating if only for the length of time we have been languishing in the stew of negativity based on no empirical evidence but basically feelings. I can empathize why many retail investors are put off by the market in general. Crapple that's catchy.
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Mav
Member
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Post by Mav on Jan 10, 2013 11:04:00 GMT -8
I thought I had seen everything and to be quite frank - there is nothing that could ever surprise me - but the article just posted at Yahoo Finance about teens thinking that Surface and Galaxy are much cooler than AAPL tablets and that AAPL is for their parents generation is so outrageous and over the top that I am having the biggest hissy fit imaginable. WTF has the world gone mad? Yeah, but that's all BS. Find a kid in high school and ask him what phone he and all his friends have. It's an iPhone. Yup, appledoc. The kids with iPhones and MacBooks beg to differ. Please try to keep it in perspective. And remember how passé iPod is? Oh right. The media CANNOT destroy Apple. Only Apple can now.
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,545
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Post by mark on Jan 10, 2013 11:04:43 GMT -8
I agree. However if you an insider who understands and sees the business better then anyone else, and you own 100 million in stock and see it drop by 30 million because WS manipulates it, I think you are more inclined to feel the pain of those who have own the stock for a few years. OH great Kitchen spill tool: I think it is entirely possible that Fidelity and Blackrock are the guys SELLING the calls and are the one manipulating the market. AAPL is up XX% over the last year. The NEXT run starts when they want it to start. Apple management may not want AAPL to trade at a +20 PE. While it is possible, I think it's been shown that, for a liquid stock like AAPL, this generally takes more capital than they can make on the trade anyway. It's also just not worth the risk in most cases.
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Post by ibuyer on Jan 10, 2013 11:08:48 GMT -8
If you think a cut to 875 is bad then you should wait and see the cuts in the next 2 weeks to below 750. That's fine. When the uber bulls start truly cutting their targets, that's the bottom. A $25 cut is not a cut. When I saw he cut the target, I was hoping it was going to be well into the $700s. I would say when the cuts come in and stock acts well then it is discounted. has not happened yet.
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,545
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Post by mark on Jan 10, 2013 11:09:00 GMT -8
For iPod, Apple eventually went for the lower end market with iPod shuffle. For Mac, Apple bowed to popular demand and introduced Mac Mini. The "cheaper iPhone" could be a device that work with iPod touch, iPod touch as an optional display for the phone - Is that possible? All the time maintaining quality and margins. It's not about cheap low end it's about an unlocked smartphone with a price point where a large consumer base exists, more likely the middle. Exactly! Here's a link to a reasonable post on the "cheaper iPhone" issue - www.intomobile.com/2013/01/09/heres-why-cheaper-iphone-wouldnt-make-sense/The salient point in the article is - "I’m not saying that Apple definitely won’t release a cheaper iPhone, but if it ever does, it’ll be because Apple found a way to make a good amount of profit with minimal sacrifices. It won’t be solely because Apple feels the need to claim low-end market share."
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Post by fas550 on Jan 10, 2013 11:13:27 GMT -8
When people lack understanding human nature is to attempt to explain it as some unseen force. 66% institutionally owned, huge market cap, low single digit short interest are all indicators of this being false. Look at Zagg for an example of a stock being manipulated. Bottom line if someone was looking to manipulate stocks for financial gain there are plenty of less risky targets out there with less capital required.
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Post by phoebear611 on Jan 10, 2013 11:32:05 GMT -8
I thought I had seen everything and to be quite frank - there is nothing that could ever surprise me - but the article just posted at Yahoo Finance about teens thinking that Surface and Galaxy are much cooler than AAPL tablets and that AAPL is for their parents generation is so outrageous and over the top that I am having the biggest hissy fit imaginable. WTF has the world gone mad? Yeah, but that's all BS. Find a kid in high school and ask him what phone he and all his friends have. It's an iPhone. My nieces and nephews - all of them - all nine - have an iPhone and other AAPL products without my influence....and so do their friends. That's what I mean - the crock of $hit that gets put out there is outrageous and becoming exponential by the day!
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Post by Plato on Jan 10, 2013 11:34:04 GMT -8
IMO if 515 does not hold today we most likely see 505 today or tomorrow again. That's when I buy. Earlier you said this "Again - today's action gives very little hope for AAPL to move higher soon. Big gap up and found heavy resistance at the 20MA and 21MA (both around 530) followed by big selling pressure. Couldn't even hold the important 525 area. Not much hope here - have to see if 501/505 holds." Do you work in a Hospice? What's your problem?
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Post by phoebear611 on Jan 10, 2013 11:36:09 GMT -8
From our comrades (posted on MarketWatch):
Steve Jobs memorial revealed in Russia January 10, 2013, 1:21 PM
A memorial to Apple co-founder Steve Jobs has been unveiled in St. Petersburg, Russia, according to a report on RIANovosti.
The monument features a large scale replica of an Apple AAPL -0.07% iPhone with a built in video screen displaying a slide show of Jobs, according to the report.
It’s set in the courtyard of the St. Petersburg National Research University of Information Technologies, Mechanics and Optics.
The design was one of scores submitted in a competition last year. It features a QR code on the back of the monument that links people to a web site commemorating Jobs.
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Post by podboy on Jan 10, 2013 11:41:41 GMT -8
From Travis :
39% of all Apple's call open interest is on the Jan 19th (LEAP) expiry. 1M OI Jan 19 calls vs 2.5M all chains combined. This POS won't do anything until after earnings.
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Post by tuffett on Jan 10, 2013 11:43:36 GMT -8
My firm belief is that a high dividend will put a floor on the stock. Anything else can be justified by the minds of the irrational due to the "high stock price". If Apple doubles the dividend is the market going to let it trade at a 4%+ yield? I doubt it.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Jan 10, 2013 11:45:19 GMT -8
Mini-surge.
Huh.
520 currently.
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Post by ibuyer on Jan 10, 2013 11:45:22 GMT -8
WTH happened?
update: hoping it holds 520 and closes above 525
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Jan 10, 2013 11:47:42 GMT -8
IF this holds? As iPad might say, smooshie over the past five or so days resolved to the upside?
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Post by fas550 on Jan 10, 2013 11:48:24 GMT -8
Earlier you said this "Again - today's action gives very little hope for AAPL to move higher soon. Big gap up and found heavy resistance at the 20MA and 21MA (both around 530) followed by big selling pressure. Couldn't even hold the important 525 area. Not much hope here - have to see if 501/505 holds." Do you work in a Hospice? What's your problem? It was asking only because each post was pretty gloomy with terms like no hope, little hope, Couldn't even etc... It was about the tone of the notes and definitely not a direct reflection on you because obviously I don't know you. Sorry if you took offense.
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Post by darrenhd on Jan 10, 2013 11:49:01 GMT -8
IF this holds? As iPad might say, smooshie over the past five or so days resolved to the upside? Why did it jump 3+ bucks all of a sudden!?
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Mav
Member
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Post by Mav on Jan 10, 2013 11:50:56 GMT -8
Technicals?
There must've been a big volatility squeeze on certain shorter timeframes. Doesn't mean a move WILL happen, but a mini-move did. For now.
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Post by darrenhd on Jan 10, 2013 11:53:22 GMT -8
Technicals? There must've been a big volatility squeeze on certain shorter timeframes. Doesn't mean a move WILL happen, but a mini-move did. For now. Ok..weird...but i'll take it. Another 17% upwards please...
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