Dave
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"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,093
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Post by Dave on Sept 22, 2020 2:47:13 GMT -8
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,093
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Post by Dave on Sept 22, 2020 2:54:21 GMT -8
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,093
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Post by Dave on Sept 22, 2020 3:01:55 GMT -8
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chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,426
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Post by chinacat on Sept 22, 2020 5:47:13 GMT -8
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ono
Member
compensation
Posts: 537
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Post by ono on Sept 22, 2020 6:22:14 GMT -8
Great charts and insight. Horace's Apple’s Ecosystem+ www.asymco.com/2020/09/22/apples-ecosystem/
Given the growth of the underlying Services segment (~15%), it’s probably going to double in 5 years to $1 trillion. Apple will certainly benefit as even if only 9% of that is booked as direct revenues, the rest will create resilience in the user base.
The power of an ecosystem isn’t what Apple is able to skim from it but rather that millions of other people will want to encourage and preserve its existence as their livelihoods, hopes and aspirations will depend on it. This goes beyond loyalty of end users (which is extraordinary) as it’s a loyalty of those who co-invest in it. All participants in an ecosystem become partners in its preservation.
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,093
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Post by Dave on Sept 22, 2020 6:55:37 GMT -8
Great charts and insight. Horace's Apple’s Ecosystem+ www.asymco.com/2020/09/22/apples-ecosystem/
Given the growth of the underlying Services segment (~15%), it’s probably going to double in 5 years to $1 trillion. Apple will certainly benefit as even if only 9% of that is booked as direct revenues, the rest will create resilience in the user base.
The power of an ecosystem isn’t what Apple is able to skim from it but rather that millions of other people will want to encourage and preserve its existence as their livelihoods, hopes and aspirations will depend on it. This goes beyond loyalty of end users (which is extraordinary) as it’s a loyalty of those who co-invest in it. All participants in an ecosystem become partners in its preservation.From your link. The comments section: Thanks Ono.
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,093
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Post by Dave on Sept 22, 2020 10:14:23 GMT -8
This is one way Apple keeps its Silicon edgeFrom the comments section: I had the same experience not long ago. I replaced my Apple AirPort Extreme network with a Linksys network of routers only to have constant problems. Thankfully, I had put the AirPort routers in the closet and in sort order had my trouble free network up and running again. I feel Greggs pain.
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,093
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Post by Dave on Sept 22, 2020 13:32:37 GMT -8
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Post by Lstream on Sept 22, 2020 14:05:00 GMT -8
This is one way Apple keeps its Silicon edgeFrom the comments section: I had the same experience not long ago. I replaced my Apple AirPort Extreme network with a Linksys network of routers only to have constant problems. Thankfully, I had put the AirPort routers in the closet and in sort order had my trouble free network up and running again. I feel Greggs pain. Dave, I am going to try and restrain myself, but Gregg has no clue. AGAIN. Off the top of my head: 1. 5G spectrum has worse propagation performance than WiFi spectrum. At the same power levels. So it would solve nothing, and very likely be worse. More to the point, it is not feasible for this and other reasons. 2. All of your existing devices, that use the WiFi standard would stop connecting. Including your PC or Mac. And iPads. 3. 5G is licensed spectrum. So routers now need to go through the stupidly expensive process of needing to be licensed? And the carriers are going to sit back and say “no problem” after they have paid billions for that spectrum? And have its performance interfered with and messed with? Jesus Christ. 4. So 5G is automatically assumed to have none of the issues that WiFi has? Including dead spots in your house? Why? Why do you keep quoting this technically illiterate clown? He is a total joke. It annoys the **** out of me that people turn to idiocy like this for their ideas. OK, maybe I failed on the restraint part.
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,625
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Post by 4aapl on Sept 22, 2020 15:11:56 GMT -8
This is one way Apple keeps its Silicon edgeFrom the comments section: I had the same experience not long ago. I replaced my Apple AirPort Extreme network with a Linksys network of routers only to have constant problems. Thankfully, I had put the AirPort routers in the closet and in sort order had my trouble free network up and running again. I feel Greggs pain. Dave, I am going to try and restrain myself, but Gregg has no clue. AGAIN. Off the top of my head: 1. 5G spectrum has worse propagation performance than WiFi spectrum. At the same power levels. So it would solve nothing, and very likely be worse. More to the point, it is not feasible for this and other reasons. 2. All of your existing devices, that use the WiFi standard would stop connecting. Including your PC or Mac. And iPads. 3. 5G is licensed spectrum. So routers now need to go through the stupidly expensive process of needing to be licensed? And the carriers are going to sit back and say “no problem” after they have paid billions for that spectrum? And have its performance interfered with and messed with? Jesus Christ. 4. So 5G is automatically assumed to have none of the issues that WiFi has? Including dead spots in your house? Why? Why do you keep quoting this technically illiterate clown? He is a total joke. It annoys the **** out of me that people turn to idiocy like this for their ideas. OK, maybe I failed on the restraint part. I read it instead as the hope for a wifi base station, that instead of hooking up to a DSL or Cable modem, it used 5G. I don't know the feasibility of that, of how 5G data rates would in general compare to DSL or Cable. My understanding is that there are lots of variables, in all of these. But, having one more option seems like a good thing. Just as some teather now, to a phone or to a stand alone hotspot device. And, though very un-Apple like, one could also have a teathered setup. That could even give those of us in non-5G locations an option. Our cable connection is only so-so, and even replacing our TP-Link router, it's still having issues when so many of us are connecting at once.
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Post by Lstream on Sept 22, 2020 15:22:57 GMT -8
Dave, I am going to try and restrain myself, but Gregg has no clue. AGAIN. Off the top of my head: 1. 5G spectrum has worse propagation performance than WiFi spectrum. At the same power levels. So it would solve nothing, and very likely be worse. More to the point, it is not feasible for this and other reasons. 2. All of your existing devices, that use the WiFi standard would stop connecting. Including your PC or Mac. And iPads. 3. 5G is licensed spectrum. So routers now need to go through the stupidly expensive process of needing to be licensed? And the carriers are going to sit back and say “no problem” after they have paid billions for that spectrum? And have its performance interfered with and messed with? Jesus Christ. 4. So 5G is automatically assumed to have none of the issues that WiFi has? Including dead spots in your house? Why? Why do you keep quoting this technically illiterate clown? He is a total joke. It annoys the **** out of me that people turn to idiocy like this for their ideas. OK, maybe I failed on the restraint part. I read it instead as the hope for a wifi base station, that instead of hooking up to a DSL or Cable modem, it used 5G. I don't know the feasibility of that, of how 5G data rates would in general compare to DSL or Cable. My understanding is that there are lots of variables, in all of these. But, having one more option seems like a good thing. Just as some teather now, to a phone or to a stand alone hotspot device. And, though very un-Apple like, one could also have a teathered setup. That could even give those of us in non-5G locations an option. Our cable connection is only so-so, and even replacing our TP-Link router, it's still having issues when so many of us are connecting at once. No, that is not what he is saying as he is making reference to solving problems with WiFi in his home network. Not the incoming connection. For that use case, anyone with fiber to the home would have no use for this. Since fiber is so much more reliable. And fast. And usually with no data caps. I can also envision serious performance implications if cell towers need to start serving homes, as well as mobile devices. I can see a use case for a 5G back haul, as you state. For some situations. But not for a WiFi replacement that is now a ubiquitous and cheap technology.
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,093
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Post by Dave on Sept 23, 2020 2:03:05 GMT -8
My bad. I was wanting to express my frustration with Apple discontinuing it’s AirPort base station which makes absolutely no sense to me. I’ve tried to find a little logic in Apples decision and hope that they will return to this market, especially with Apples emphasis on security. But I fear that I’m beating a dead horse on this. I included Greggs comments because of his experience with Linksys routers. Many times I offer the comments of others in an attempt to generate conversation here as there seems to be little here at times. And sometimes it works. Thank to Lstream’s and 4aapl’s post I learned something new. Thank you.
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Post by Lstream on Sept 23, 2020 4:53:52 GMT -8
My bad. I was wanting to express my frustration with Apple discontinuing it’s AirPort base station which makes absolutely no sense to me. I’ve tried to find a little logic in Apples decision and hope that they will return to this market, especially with Apples emphasis on security. But I fear that I’m beating a dead horse on this. I included Greggs comments because of his experience with Linksys routers. Many times I offer the comments of others in an attempt to generate conversation here as there seems to be little here at times. And sometimes it works. Thank to Lstream’s and 4aapl’s post I learned something new. Thank you. Hi Dave. I also wish they did not discontinue this product. I run two Extremes in my house. Not looking forward to the day I need to replace them. I probably came on a little strong. Sorry about that.
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ono
Member
compensation
Posts: 537
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Post by ono on Sept 23, 2020 6:49:41 GMT -8
Personal recommendation, post Airport Base:
Cable modem: Arris (Motorola) 6183 (avoid the newer ARRIS SURFboard SB6190 Puma-6 chipset is linked to latency issues, and disconnects)
Wifi: Eero Pro mesh router/extender (2nd Generation), 2 for 2600 sq ft or 3. I chose not to use the Beacon extender and used two Pro. Very Apple like set up app. Stable. It bothers me a little that Amazon bought them, but security seems intact.
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Post by BillH on Sept 23, 2020 13:19:23 GMT -8
Personal recommendation, post Airport Base: Cable modem: Arris (Motorola) 6183 (avoid the newer ARRIS SURFboard SB6190 Puma-6 chipset is linked to latency issues, and disconnects) Wifi: Eero Pro mesh router/extender (2nd Generation), 2 for 2600 sq ft or 3. I chose not to use the Beacon extender and used two Pro. Very Apple like set up app. Stable. It bothers me a little that Amazon bought them, but security seems intact. I also have an Eero mesh system at our other house that wasn't well served by a AirPort Extreme. We have a guest quarters that's detached so the added range was helpful. One caveat. When the internet (Comcast cable) goes down it doesn't keep serving the house for other uses. It's required to be in contact with Eero in order to function so airplay and file sharing no workee.
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,093
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Post by Dave on Sept 23, 2020 14:00:14 GMT -8
My bad. I was wanting to express my frustration with Apple discontinuing it’s AirPort base station which makes absolutely no sense to me. I’ve tried to find a little logic in Apples decision and hope that they will return to this market, especially with Apples emphasis on security. But I fear that I’m beating a dead horse on this. I included Greggs comments because of his experience with Linksys routers. Many times I offer the comments of others in an attempt to generate conversation here as there seems to be little here at times. And sometimes it works. Thank to Lstream’s and 4aapl’s post I learned something new. Thank you. Hi Dave. I also wish they did not discontinue this product. I run two Extremes in my house. Not looking forward to the day I need to replace them. I probably came on a little strong. Sorry about that. No problem. I needed to pickup an additional AirPort Extreme to cover a room above the garage and was able to find a good selection on eBay. Someone even had a couple new-in-box Extremes. I ran Ethernet cables from the base station to all of the other satellites and have no problems at all. It was a pain running the cables but worth the effort.
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,552
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Post by mark on Sept 23, 2020 18:05:35 GMT -8
My bad. I was wanting to express my frustration with Apple discontinuing it’s AirPort base station which makes absolutely no sense to me. I’ve tried to find a little logic in Apples decision and hope that they will return to this market, especially with Apples emphasis on security. But I fear that I’m beating a dead horse on this. I included Greggs comments because of his experience with Linksys routers. Many times I offer the comments of others in an attempt to generate conversation here as there seems to be little here at times. And sometimes it works. Thank to Lstream’s and 4aapl’s post I learned something new. Thank you. I can think of only one thing. And it is the most likely reason. Maybe Apple decided that they can't make any money selling routers? Considering that it has become mostly a commoditized market (from two directions), maybe there is no profit to be had. The two directions are, one, from the consumer - there are so many "low brand" and "off brand" routers that all use the same chipsets, and there are so many versions of software out there available for them. And two, from the Internet service providers who buy them by the tens of thousands (some with modems included, some without) and lease them to their customers, or even give them free, or close to free, to their customers in some cases.
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