Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,097
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Post by Dave on Jan 13, 2021 3:12:27 GMT -8
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,097
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Post by Dave on Jan 13, 2021 3:17:31 GMT -8
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,097
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Post by Dave on Jan 13, 2021 3:21:15 GMT -8
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Post by artman1033 on Jan 13, 2021 5:41:24 GMT -8
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,097
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Post by Dave on Jan 13, 2021 9:08:03 GMT -8
It looks like AAPL and TSLA are in an inverse step with one another.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,182
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Post by JDSoCal on Jan 13, 2021 9:29:14 GMT -8
Lordy, what a bunch of nonsense and an insult to Americans. There is no such thing as "systemic racism." It's an insult to the vast majority of Americans who are fair-minded and do not discriminate on anyone. If anything, the systemic subsidizing of poverty and pathology is what holds many minorities back. Just more divisive nonsense that perpetrates the fallacy of minorities as victims. So long as they think that way, and don't buy into the American dream, they'll vote Democrat, as they have for 55 years. "How is that working out for you?" Can't say that a "big announcement" by Apple isn't relevant to the intraday! For the record, I voted against the entire Apple Board yesterday with 6 figures of shares. I no longer support Tim Cook as CEO, and I can no longer advise friends to invest in AAPL. I will be paring my Apple positions, as taxes allow.
Tim has decided that he runs an NGO, not a publicly traded company that reaches out to all Americans. "Apple values" do not include freedom of expression. In a sad commentary on the American plutocracy that the left claims to disapprove of, Angela Merkel said she is concerned about Big Tech censorship. The Germans are worried about American freedoms!
A little advice to the lefties on the board who think it's great that Apple is de-platforming conservatives: If you put your politics ahead of your investing, you might be in a religion or cult and not know it. Pissing off 75 million Trump voters will be bad for business. If you say that you don't care, then you are a dumb investor. I already have friends who've been Mac users all their lives dumping Apple products. One of whom is a Democrat who hates Trump!
OK, that's enough pixie dust for one day...
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chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,426
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Post by chinacat on Jan 13, 2021 9:35:48 GMT -8
So show your convictions and sell your shares JD, or STFU.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,182
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Post by JDSoCal on Jan 13, 2021 10:15:04 GMT -8
So show your convictions and sell your shares JD, or STFU. Again, for those with the lower reading comprehension SAT scores, I'm not going to hurt myself financially because of my politics, as the libs who support Apple's censorship seem to be cool with. I will be paring shares each year, but I cannot just dump six figures of shares without a seven figure tax bill. But I will be waving off all new investors to the company who ask. I've been an AAPL evangelist for almost 30 years. No more. Truth be told, the company's lack of a new killer product since 2007 has scared the hell out of me anyway.
As much as I dislike Tim's politics, my present concern is how his censorship and other actions that half the country deem hostile will affect sales and the brand itself. Apple desperately needs sales and revs growth to propel the stock price. If you think alienating 75 million Trump voters is good for sales and the brand and the stock price, then you should let someone else manage your investments. A mere 5% of iPhone users going to Samsung could have devastating consequences for earnings and the stock. Anyone care to challenge that statement?
Tim has finally shown me that he is willing to move beyond mere tweeted platitudes, to real action against freedom of speech. "Apple values" = human rights, get real. With human rights advocates like Cook, who needs China?
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bud777
fire starter
Posts: 1,352
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Post by bud777 on Jan 13, 2021 10:43:26 GMT -8
J.D. aren't you "putting politics ahead of your investing" when you pare shares as fast as you can(within tax restraints) because you disagree with Tim's politics? Do you have a rational basis to believe that the positive response to this socially responsible initiative will be less than the negative 5% that you cite? My advice...take a deep breath, look at the bottom line, ride it out. And please stick around. I need to hear other points of view
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Post by Lstream on Jan 13, 2021 10:51:37 GMT -8
I made a post in the dungeon on this whole de-platforming thing. From the Amazon lawsuit. Cook today said Parler is welcome back if they comply with TOS. If anyone thinks that Amazon, Apple, and Google should give Parler a free pass on the kind of hate language Amazon cited, then that is just stunning to me. I don’t see why it is such big ask to have that kind of hateful content moderated. The Parler CEO must be a business idiot to take the stance he has. He is shooting his own company in the head and playing the victim. What a clown. I don’t believe that Apple will or should pay a price for this stance. Some extremists may throw a tantrum, but oh well.
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Post by lulli on Jan 13, 2021 11:45:09 GMT -8
As much as I dislike Tim's politics, my present concern is how his censorship and other actions that half the country deem hostile will affect sales and the brand itself. Apple desperately needs sales and revs growth to propel the stock price. I think your politics are blinding your judgement (similar to when you were posting at the beginning of the covid crisis). In fact, there are very good reasons to believe that almost all of Tim's actions that you despise are liked by the majority of Apple's user base, by majorities in society at large, and are especially liked by the younger generations (that is, future customers).... . Therefore, raising the profile of Apple in this way will very likely be a factor that works towards increasing the company success and the value of AAPL. And this is a completely apolitical, dispassionate analysis on my side
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Ted
fire starter
Posts: 882
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Post by Ted on Jan 13, 2021 11:54:28 GMT -8
Gosh, JD's mad at Apple so he's allowed to disregard our mutually agreed upon rules and use this forum as his libertarian soapbox. Mods, please put his inappropriate post in the dungeon where it belongs. I have no interest in reading his views on systemic racism on our daily board. Thanks.
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Post by Luckychoices on Jan 13, 2021 11:59:36 GMT -8
Lordy, what a bunch of nonsense and an insult to Americans. I’m an American…I’m not insulted. So I guess your comment is just your opinion. There is no such thing as "systemic racism." Spoken like a Caucasian who has never been in a position to have it affect your life. I’m guessing you might feel differently if you were African-American and had experienced it in your daily life...but again, that's just my *opinion* and I would never state it as a fact. Make sure you stay clear of Ben and Jerry's ice cream because, apparently, they're also wrong about "systemic racism": 7 Ways we Know Systemic Racism is RealIt's an insult to the vast majority of Americans who are fair-minded and do not discriminate on anyone. First of all, you don’t *know* the vast majority of Americans so you’re in no position to speak authoritatively about whether or not they’re fair-minded and non-discriminatory. Most of the people I meet on a daily basis *seem* fair-minded but I have no idea if they are or not…and even if I did, I would never extrapolate their attributes to the "the vast majority of Americans” If anything, the systemic subsidizing of poverty and pathology is what holds many minorities back. Just more divisive nonsense that perpetrates the fallacy of minorities as victims. So long as they think that way, and don't buy into the American dream, they'll vote Democrat, as they have for 55 years. "How is that working out for you?" JD, you never seem to tire of sharing your opinion as fact. I'm aware of an entire group of people, of which you're a member, who do that very same thing. For the record, I voted against the entire Apple Board yesterday with 6 figures of shares. I no longer support Tim Cook as CEO, and I can no longer advise friends to invest in AAPL. I will be paring my Apple positions, as taxes allow.
Sorry to hear that but I doubt that most Apple shareholders on AFB will be panicking and selling their AAPL shares now that you’ve announced your intentions. Tim has decided that he runs an NGO, not a publicly traded company that reaches out to all Americans. "Apple values" do not include freedom of expression. In a sad commentary on the American plutocracy that the left claims to disapprove of, Angela Merkel said she is concerned about Big Tech censorship. The Germans are worried about American freedoms! Since when you care about how the leaders of other countries feel about America? A little advice to the lefties on the board who think it's great that Apple is de-platforming conservatives: If you put your politics ahead of your investing, you might be in a religion or cult and not know it. Pissing off 75 million Trump voters will be bad for business. If you say that you don't care, then you are a dumb investor. Wait, by speaking out and funding an effort against systemic racism, Apple is deplatforming conservatives? I just skimmed the announcement but I didn’t see any comment about conservatives OR 75 million Trump voters. Actually,I believe anyone selling a large number of Apple shares, because of Apple's statement, is showing very poor judgment..but that's just my *opinion*. I already have friends who've been Mac users all their lives dumping Apple products. One of whom is a Democrat who hates Trump! I don’t expect your anecdotal account to make much of a blip in Apple’s future revenue. OK, that's enough pixie dust for one day...
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Post by Lstream on Jan 13, 2021 12:11:32 GMT -8
Meanwhile Apple is +$2.13
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Post by duckpins on Jan 13, 2021 12:18:14 GMT -8
The bigger picture? The oligarchs and ultra wealthy love identity politics. It gives them the chance to look in the mirror and say we are the good people, we are on the right side of history. While at the same time paying and lobbying for ever lower level of taxes, state, local and federal. Ever lower regulations and ever more money for them. The economic divided increases. Tim Cook is concerned "controversial TV shows" will alienate some people and thus hurt Apple? I suggest that as we said in the days when I played chess, that he look deeper into the position for the truth. Censorship and the cancel culture are not Liberal or Leftist values. We always let people talk and thereby reveal themselves back in the social justice and antiwar movements of past times. The antifida showing up in ski masks and black vans does not strike me as quite the same. Stop Ann Coulter from speaking at Berkeley, now that is not a liberal value.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,182
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Post by JDSoCal on Jan 13, 2021 12:58:51 GMT -8
J.D. aren't you "putting politics ahead of your investing" when you pare shares as fast as you can(within tax restraints) because you disagree with Tim's politics? Do you have a rational basis to believe that the positive response to this socially responsible initiative will be less than the negative 5% that you cite? My advice...take a deep breath, look at the bottom line, ride it out. And please stick around. I need to hear other points of view OK, as a teacher, it's on me if I don't articulate my points well enough. To be clear: "Don't let your dogma run over your karma," I always say. But it works both ways. When the other side believes you are a non-person whose views are illegitimate, and takes actions to silence you, that is an entirely different matter. Hey, Trump lost. But at this very raw time, you choose to rub 75 million voters' noses in it? Not smart and it worries me. A lot. I can't lie and say that it is smart business to piss off half the country. Tim is, in fact, letting his Dogma run over Apple's Karma.
When Tim was just a liberal guy running Apple, I said, whatever, so long as he makes the trains run on time. As a libertarian, I liked his views on privacy. I also knew he was pretty ruthless as an executive, which I know is needed for a company to be the best. Make me rich, and I don't give a shit who you sleep with. But now, Tim is actively censoring an app that many conservatives were fleeing to when they were censored on Twitter and other social media. In the name of "hate speech," and other gray, fluid, undefined "terms" of service. But we've seen several here who would ban my ass in a second if there was a big red button that did it on Proboards. My "hate speech" is merely disagreeing with liberals' views.
I've seen this play many times, and it always ends the same way. This Parler thing is just the canary in the coalmine. It's funny, Tim seems to understand the slippery slope argument with privacy. "But the terrorists and money launderers and kidnapped children! Give us a backdoor!" Plenty of pretexts. We all know a backdoor wouldn't just be used for terrorism. Just like "hate speech" or "incendiary rhetoric" is a pretext. Next thing you know, saying "build the wall" or "MAGA 2024" is hate speech (liberals on AFB desperately hoping for that red button). Apple's apparatchiks almost certainly would find many of my posts and Tweets and comments violative of their "terms of service" (which I am bound to for the privilege of buying a $1000+ walled garden phone). bEcAuSe HaTe SpEeCh.
For those saying that the privacy thing was gutsy and unpopular in some corners; well, it's one thing to take on the FBI in the interest of your customers. It's quite another to take on those actual customers and tell them, "You voted for Trump? Fuck you. No apps for you!" That tends to really anger people. Do I really need to explain to liberals how people vote with their wallets when they are disrespected? Hell, you guys have a shit list longer than the works of Shakespeare. It's gotten to the point where Fox News can't even get advertisers other than My Pillow Guy. Well, it works both ways.
I have heard from several friends who are lifelong Apple users, LONG before Tim Cook worked there. They are all pissed over the Parler thing. One friend was just about to buy his college-aged son a Macbook, but decided to go another direction after the events of this week. What could I say to them? "No, Tim Cook really loves your Christian family! And what about my AAPL stock?!"
Newsflash: There are tens of millions of Americans who believe that there was significant fraud in the 2020 presidential election. I am one of them, for reasons I won't bore or outrage you with. For merely typing that, I am subject to deplatforming on many sites and apps, even cloud servers, possibly including the Apple ecosystem. bEcAuSe InCiTeS vIoLeNcE.
Someone here said that Tim Apple himself would not want to be on this board. I thought about that. The notion that a CEO of a publicly-traded company would never want to hear from a 29-year shareholder with 6 figures of shares, because he disagrees with the direction the company is taking. There's a word for that: Arrogance. Apple has reached the point where it is so big and powerful, it feels immune to any ideas not originating in the C-suite. Furthermore, it believes that it can impose its worldview on millions of paying customers who disagree with it. A company that makes A FREAKING CELLPHONE. And charges A THOUSAND DOLLARS for it. And then presumes to tell me what apps you can put on it?! Not like Apple makes some patented, life-saving medicine. It's a phone that people buy because it presumably enriches your life. How does banning someone or some app for their views and opinions enrich their life?
Well, I've seen corporate arrogance over the years, and it does not usually end well. Microsoft and IBM come to mind. Intel as well. Blockbuster is always a fun one (could have had Netflix for a rounding error). Nokia and Moto thought they had a good thing going too.
For years, I laughed at the Androids who said Apple is a walled garden, as if that was a pejorative. It doesn't seem so funny to me anymore.
"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,182
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Post by JDSoCal on Jan 13, 2021 13:34:36 GMT -8
Lordy, what a bunch of nonsense and an insult to Americans. I’m an American…I’m not insulted. So I guess your comment is just your opinion. There is no such thing as "systemic racism." Spoken like a Caucasian who has never been in a position to have it affect your life. I’m guessing you might feel differently if you were African-American and had experienced it in your daily life...but again, that's just my *opinion* and I would never state it as a fact. Make sure you stay clear of Ben and Jerry's ice cream because, apparently, they're also wrong about "systemic racism": 7 Ways we Know Systemic Racism is RealYou don't see the irony that apparently, some black people and white liberals can just assume that we're all racist to the point where we've secretly built up a racist system; but if I say "actually, I don't believe that" I'm assuming and opining and I should shut up and speak for myself? Maybe just little projection there, buddy. And as a white male, I can assure you I have seen discrimination on my kind up close and personal. I work in academia, after all. In one college I used to work at, the all-Latino board of trustees said the problem with our school is "too many white deans and professors." Haven't seen a white dean hired since (I would never ever want to be a dean so spare me the "poor you" nonsense). All I've heard lately from the left is how white people are the problem in America. That is exactly what critical race theory espouses.
YOU: "WHITES ARE ALL RACIST DEVILS!" ALSO YOU: "HOW DARE YOU ACT LIKE YOU KNOW WHAT BEING HATED FOR YOUR RACE IS LIKE!"
It's an insult to the vast majority of Americans who are fair-minded and do not discriminate on anyone. So we just assume people are racist - the worst thing you can call someone in modern society - until proven otherwise? Guilty until proven innocent? According to critical race theory, we're all guilty, white privilege, blha blha blha. (typo, but I like it, blah + ha). Original sinners, all! I think most white Americans who are not liberal Democrats would tell you to go jump in a lake if you said they are racist, or that our country is a big fat racism machine. JUST MY OPINION. If anything, the systemic subsidizing of poverty and pathology is what holds many minorities back. Just more divisive nonsense that perpetrates the fallacy of minorities as victims. So long as they think that way, and don't buy into the American dream, they'll vote Democrat, as they have for 55 years. "How is that working out for you?" "Systemic racism" is an opinion. Mine is different. Or is that just yet another example of unassailable "science" that the left loves so much? Science denier! And white! Worst of the worst. I hate being so bad. For the record, I voted against the entire Apple Board yesterday with 6 figures of shares. I no longer support Tim Cook as CEO, and I can no longer advise friends to invest in AAPL. I will be paring my Apple positions, as taxes allow.
Good to know, but I thought we weren't supposed to speak for the secret, mystical intentions of others? I'm so confused. Tim has decided that he runs an NGO, not a publicly traded company that reaches out to all Americans. "Apple values" do not include freedom of expression. In a sad commentary on the American plutocracy that the left claims to disapprove of, Angela Merkel said she is concerned about Big Tech censorship. The Germans are worried about American freedoms! I reserve the right to employ delicious irony wherever I find it. A little advice to the lefties on the board who think it's great that Apple is de-platforming conservatives: If you put your politics ahead of your investing, you might be in a religion or cult and not know it. Pissing off 75 million Trump voters will be bad for business. If you say that you don't care, then you are a dumb investor. I was referring to Parler: But you do realize that much of what I have written here could easily be censored as "hate speech"? Maybe I will do an AFB poll where I ask how many would like to ban me. That would be fun!
It's not just the statement, as I said above. I have actual friends angered by the company's censorship. The social justice nonsense is just tedium on the cake (if you read the statement, it does mention "systemic racism," which I find insulting to Americans and ludicrous). YOU'RE A PHONE COMPANY. STOP LECTURING US ON HOW FUCKED UP WE ALL ARE. TIA. I already have friends who've been Mac users all their lives dumping Apple products. One of whom is a Democrat who hates Trump! OK, but the entire reason I originally bought Apple was the excitement and loyalty the Apple II and the Mac engendered in its users. Lots of it was anecdotal (including myself). Should I wait for a major boycott before I take some gains? My investing philosophy has always been, buy in companies you believe in (unless its mindless momentum/narrative investing like TSLA or Bitcoin). I no longer believe in Apple's leadership. I consider free speech to be America's most important virtue. Tim does not, and he's angering a lot of people - for no good reason and the worst possible time. I just feel it in my gut that something is wrong at Apple, and much of the monotonal Silicon Valley.
You're speaking to a free market libertarian who is running out of reasons to oppose antitrust enforcement of Big Tech.
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,552
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Post by mark on Jan 13, 2021 13:42:34 GMT -8
Truth be told, the company's lack of a new killer product since 2007 has scared the hell out of me anyway. I've grappled with this over recent years, and I sometimes wonder if we are perhaps thinking of "killer" in the wrong way. Obviously the iPhone was a "killer" product, but think back, it was indeed killer, but the next killer product was downloadable apps. And maybe "killer" isn't always a product, it might be a technology, for example I consider the M1 chip to be "killer". Also, just to understand what you mean by "killer product", can you give us some examples of what you think are killer products (from other companies) since 2007?
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Post by aaplsauce on Jan 13, 2021 13:51:12 GMT -8
From the Apple Newsroom:
“Apple launches major new Racial Equity and Justice Initiative projects to challenge systemic racism, advance racial equity nationwide”
“Monica Lozano joins Apple’s board of directors”
“A landmark year of giving from Apple”
Another great day to be a proud AAPL shareholder. If one can make a nice return on ones investment over time AND support helping others, then what a good life lived.
AAPL has returned 10,537% during the last 20 years. Only a dolt would advise others not to invest in AAPL.
Another fact is that Tim Cook has the overwhelming support of shareholders, and I highly doubt that will change anytime soon, if ever.
I don’t understand why any investor would stay invested in any company, in which the investor did not have confidence in the CEO.
Money over principles? That sounds like a crappy way to live life. Any investor that makes millions on an investment, can afford to put their principles over money. These days, I just assume that I will be giving close to 50% of my profits to the government. I don’t really like it, but it doesn’t prevent me from putting my principles first.
The “hate speech” (and racism) on this board is exactly that…hate and racism. And it shouldn’t be tolerated! Perhaps the presence of “Parler” users on this board is a contributing factor to the reason why many daily comments number in the single digits.
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,552
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Post by mark on Jan 13, 2021 14:32:27 GMT -8
AAPL has returned 10,537% during the last 20 years. Only a dolt would advise others not to invest in AAPL. Quoting what happened over the previous 20 years is not relevant to the next 20 years. And it's ONLY the next 20 years that concerns new investors! Here are some numbers that show how it isn't relevant. The GDP of the USA is now about $21.5T, if the USA experiences spectacular average growth of 4.5% each year for the next 20 years, the GDP of the USA in 20 years will be about $50T. On the other hand, if Apple experiences similar spectacular growth over the next 20 years as it did over the last 20 years, roughly 100X, it'll be worth about $200T. The question is - how likely is that scenario? Keep in mind that today, TOTAL stock market capitalization is about 2 times GDP. That said, I still think Apple is a terrific investment, not because it might duplicate what it did over the last 20 years in the next 20 years, but rather because I think over the long term it will outperform most other investments that I can think of and that I would be willing to invest in*. * I am only willing to invest in things that are actually productive and earn something. That rules out stuff like most government bonds, gold, bitcoin, etc.
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Post by aaplsauce on Jan 13, 2021 15:38:52 GMT -8
Mark, we are in agreement. I believe AAPL is a great investment going forward, and only quote past performance to show the stock has a solid history of returns, not that it will duplicate the last 20 years. Your point is a good reminder for new investors.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,182
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Post by JDSoCal on Jan 13, 2021 17:37:11 GMT -8
From the Apple Newsroom: “Apple launches major new Racial Equity and Justice Initiative projects to challenge systemic racism, advance racial equity nationwide” “Monica Lozano joins Apple’s board of directors” “A landmark year of giving from Apple” Another great day to be a proud AAPL shareholder. If one can make a nice return on ones investment over time AND support helping others, then what a good life lived. AAPL has returned 10,537% during the last 20 years. Only a dolt would advise others not to invest in AAPL. Another fact is that Tim Cook has the overwhelming support of shareholders, and I highly doubt that will change anytime soon, if ever. I don’t understand why any investor would stay invested in any company, in which the investor did not have confidence in the CEO. Money over principles? That sounds like a crappy way to live life. Any investor that makes millions on an investment, can afford to put their principles over money. These days, I just assume that I will be giving close to 50% of my profits to the government. I don’t really like it, but it doesn’t prevent me from putting my principles first. The “hate speech” (and racism) on this board is exactly that…hate and racism. And it shouldn’t be tolerated! Perhaps the presence of “Parler” users on this board is a contributing factor to the reason why many daily comments number in the single digits. Calling names and advocating for a long-time member to be banned, and it gets three likes. From a 27-post wonder, no less. But I'm what's wrong with AFB.
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Post by Lstream on Jan 13, 2021 18:05:41 GMT -8
From the Apple Newsroom: “Apple launches major new Racial Equity and Justice Initiative projects to challenge systemic racism, advance racial equity nationwide” “Monica Lozano joins Apple’s board of directors” “A landmark year of giving from Apple” Another great day to be a proud AAPL shareholder. If one can make a nice return on ones investment over time AND support helping others, then what a good life lived. AAPL has returned 10,537% during the last 20 years. Only a dolt would advise others not to invest in AAPL. Another fact is that Tim Cook has the overwhelming support of shareholders, and I highly doubt that will change anytime soon, if ever. I don’t understand why any investor would stay invested in any company, in which the investor did not have confidence in the CEO. Money over principles? That sounds like a crappy way to live life. Any investor that makes millions on an investment, can afford to put their principles over money. These days, I just assume that I will be giving close to 50% of my profits to the government. I don’t really like it, but it doesn’t prevent me from putting my principles first. The “hate speech” (and racism) on this board is exactly that…hate and racism. And it shouldn’t be tolerated! Perhaps the presence of “Parler” users on this board is a contributing factor to the reason why many daily comments number in the single digits. Calling names and advocating for a long-time member to be banned, and it gets three likes. From a 27-post wonder, no less. But I'm what's wrong with AFB. Hey there JD - we differ a bunch on various political issues and on the wisdom of Apple’s social activism, but I think you often have insightful things to say about AAPL and Apple. I am not in favor of anyone being banned. Ignore works pretty well for those that object to a particular poster’s point-of-view.
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Post by hledgard on Jan 13, 2021 19:10:53 GMT -8
JD is a wonderful member of this board ! !
His comments are insightful, to the point, and interesting.
His writing is superb. He does not go on and on, and his writing is truly creative..
We are lucky to have him ! ! !
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,628
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Post by 4aapl on Jan 13, 2021 19:42:45 GMT -8
Hey there JD - we differ a bunch on various political issues and on the wisdom of Apple’s social activism, but I think you often have insightful things to say about AAPL and Apple. I am not in favor of anyone being banned. Ignore works pretty well for those that object to a particular poster’s point-of-view. This is going to be a tough couple of weeks for some, even without additional items. I'll admit it, I was surprised to see the specific link title that Art posted, and even more to see that it was from Apple's site. And yet this was the money that they already committed to this sort of thing. I do have issues with realizing how bad some specific people or groups may have it. I tended to think that scholarship and admittance opportunities should be based only on scholastics, and so wasn't too hot on prop 187. How many years ago was that...24? It often doesn't feel like this is still an issue. But it seems to be, for a variety of reasons. At the same time, if you open up your viewpoint to all of the different options and reasoning out there, it might make a little more sense, even if not specifically racially. These days this is different. I have a brother-in-law who is black from Mississippi, and that partly enlightens me on what currently still goes on, even if I never know the full story of a car full of friends getting pulled over in SoCal 8 years ago and being accused of not wearing their seatbelts. Sounds Dukes-of-hazardish, of kicking out a brake light. And yet..... Back to Apple, I theorized yesterday that one of the options for the "big thing" was in education. Where would Apple put that, to help them out? Some place with high unemployment, helping both Apple and the area out? Apple has multiple fights here, and a PR challenge. Guiding a bit of money to a spot that gives Apple bonus points could very well both be the best thing to do, and the best way to do it. Spending $100M here may very well be enough to save a few billion fighting a different court case. Sadly I am getting to learn about that crap, even if a few orders of magnitude smaller. And then there's the whole taxation and subsidization side of things, where in the grand scheme it may be best to help some people out on the frontside, instead of dealing with it later. This may be true across a large variety of people, but finding an identifiable segment and helping them out can be a good thing. OTOH, none of this stuff is stuff that a small company normally deals with, instead just focusing all of their resources on growing, and thus making themselves, and their shareholders, more money. A medium sized company might start thinking broadly, especially if it has been at that level a while. Apple these days is a large company, with the largest market cap. Starting a dividend wasn't necessarily the best use of capital, and was a change. Same with caring about overseas work conditions. This is one more thing. I think many, if not most, companies this size start thinking about these things, even if it costs the company and shareholders a little bit. Personally, Apple has done so well for me that I don't much care financially, as a small bit of percentage isn't going to change if I can afford a decent sized island or 747. Apple's choice may technically be costing me a little, which may cut into the portion that I would donate based on my specific preferences. But like has been pointed out, if I really dislike that, I can sell and buy into something else. I respect Musk for his drive and focus while trying to move the needle of humanity, but he seems much less focused on trying to do the right thing or more altruistic ventures. Again, these next couple weeks are likely to have some fireworks. AFB has done amazingly well through this political season, at least in the daily thread. Remember that you have the luxury of the "ignore" button. Use it if you want. Thanks (EDITED with additions)
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Post by hyci004 on Jan 13, 2021 21:21:18 GMT -8
Truth be told, the company's lack of a new killer product since 2007 has scared the hell out of me anyway. I've grappled with this over recent years, and I sometimes wonder if we are perhaps thinking of "killer" in the wrong way. Obviously the iPhone was a "killer" product, but think back, it was indeed killer, but the next killer product was downloadable apps. And maybe "killer" isn't always a product, it might be a technology, for example I consider the M1 chip to be "killer". Also, just to understand what you mean by "killer product", can you give us some examples of what you think are killer products (from other companies) since 2007? You hear the Apple Pay chime (cash register rings) whenever someone is complaining about no killer product or innovation.
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Post by davidstevenson on Jan 13, 2021 21:22:05 GMT -8
From the Apple press release of January 6:
QUOTE
Lozano continues to serve on the boards of Target Corporation and Bank of America Corporation.
Lozano is ... a former chair of both the University of California Board of Regents and the board of directors of the Weingart Foundation, a private philanthropic organization. Lozano is also a former board member of The Walt Disney Company.
END QUOTE
I think this Lozano person is qualified (at least on paper) to serve on Apple’s board of directors.
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,097
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Post by Dave on Jan 14, 2021 4:00:32 GMT -8
JD is a wonderful member of this board ! ! His comments are insightful, to the point, and interesting. His writing is superb. He does not go on and on, and his writing is truly creative.. We are lucky to have him ! ! ! Thank you, I couldn’t have said it any better!
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,552
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Post by mark on Jan 14, 2021 8:23:47 GMT -8
I've grappled with this over recent years, and I sometimes wonder if we are perhaps thinking of "killer" in the wrong way. Obviously the iPhone was a "killer" product, but think back, it was indeed killer, but the next killer product was downloadable apps. And maybe "killer" isn't always a product, it might be a technology, for example I consider the M1 chip to be "killer". Also, just to understand what you mean by "killer product", can you give us some examples of what you think are killer products (from other companies) since 2007? You hear the Apple Pay chime (cash register rings) whenever someone is complaining about no killer product or innovation. The claim by the post that I replied to was that *APPLE* hasn't had a killer product since 2007, so I was naturally interested in what exactly they think *is* a killer product launched after 2007. I still haven't seen a single example of what they consider to be a killer product launched after 2007.
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Post by alxyz on Jan 14, 2021 9:41:54 GMT -8
JD, go away!
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