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Post by lovemyipad on Mar 8, 2013 14:16:13 GMT -8
The bar is open!
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Post by appledoc on Mar 8, 2013 14:27:04 GMT -8
The rate of decline tends to get slower as we approach the bottom.
IMO, we're not out of the woods yet.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Mar 8, 2013 14:34:20 GMT -8
EWC. Word. The velocity is still pretty consistent. IF you believe in trends, you can't deny the overwhelming intermediate trend of STILL DOWN. There are interesting signs popping up, but my personal bottom line - let's see how AAPL does around 435 as Step One of that increasingly lengthy journey back to uptrend. Subject to CONTINUAL if/then revision. Ugh.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Mar 8, 2013 14:35:47 GMT -8
On that note, iPad, I need a strong drink. Tomato juice..."extra tomato." ;D
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Post by rickag on Mar 8, 2013 15:00:25 GMT -8
I would like to thank everyone for explaining just how nutty my thinking was on covered calls in the Intraday thread. Yikes, was I wrong or REALLY REALLY WRONG. I vote the latter.
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Post by prazan on Mar 8, 2013 15:20:40 GMT -8
I would like to thank everyone for explaining just how nutty my thinking was on covered calls in the Intraday thread. Yikes, was I wrong or REALLY REALLY WRONG. I vote the latter. But you did the smart thing by vetting the trade on the board, proving again the benefits of tapping the collective wisdom here.
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Post by prazan on Mar 8, 2013 15:21:22 GMT -8
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Post by appledoc on Mar 8, 2013 17:13:53 GMT -8
Man this place is quiet. The end must be near!
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Post by phoebear611 on Mar 8, 2013 17:22:31 GMT -8
Man this place is quiet. The end must be near! Let's hope that by "the end" you mean "the bottom!"
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Mav
Member
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Post by Mav on Mar 8, 2013 17:35:30 GMT -8
Nope. I disliked being here more LAST week. Dead cat bounce.
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Post by prazan on Mar 8, 2013 17:36:33 GMT -8
Man this place is quiet. The end must be near! Either that, or AFB members have all suddenly acquired a social life. I'm at a convention in Boston, footsore, exhausted, and happy for Apple's uneventful day.
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Post by rickag on Mar 8, 2013 17:40:49 GMT -8
I would like to thank everyone for explaining just how nutty my thinking was on covered calls in the Intraday thread. Yikes, was I wrong or REALLY REALLY WRONG. I vote the latter. But you did the smart thing by vetting the trade on the board, proving again the benefits of tapping the collective wisdom here. Agree wholeheartedly. I realize how dumb my thinking was and no one pointed it out, just kindly corrected me. Kudos to lovemyipad for moderating such a great board.
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Post by artman1033 on Mar 8, 2013 17:45:48 GMT -8
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Post by macwire on Mar 8, 2013 18:39:55 GMT -8
max pain 450-5 ish range, fwiw.
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Post by CdnPhoto on Mar 8, 2013 18:50:08 GMT -8
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Post by sponge on Mar 8, 2013 19:16:14 GMT -8
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Post by sponge on Mar 8, 2013 19:18:46 GMT -8
This is the first week since we dropped in January and went up in the first two weeks of February, that I did not have to deal with a margin call.
So it was a good week.
I agree with Burgess that we are at the bottom. May have to break my own rule and start buying back slowly next week and not wait three weeks for us to get to 483. ;D
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Post by macwire on Mar 8, 2013 19:42:39 GMT -8
This is the first week since we dropped in January and went up in the first two weeks of February, that I did not have to deal with a margin call. jesus...
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Post by rezonate on Mar 8, 2013 19:52:02 GMT -8
Rum & coke here. My brother said tonight "Apple = jumped the shark". He is almost as die-hard as me, and his livelihood depends on their pro stuff. He was trying to get iLife '09 running on his tower. When someone like him is in a snit about Apple, I can only think one thing: an Apple hardware announcement soon.
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Post by ibuyer on Mar 9, 2013 0:20:52 GMT -8
This is the first week since we dropped in January and went up in the first two weeks of February, that I did not have to deal with a margin call. jesus... That says it all. Perhaps, that should be added to his footer.
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Post by appledoc on Mar 9, 2013 5:35:38 GMT -8
I agree with Burgess that we are at the bottom. May have to break my own rule and start buying back slowly next week and not wait three weeks for us to get to 483. ;D Do not be stupid. Have some damn discipline. I can't believe how excited you are over a 3.92 gain on the week.
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Ted
fire starter
Posts: 880
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Post by Ted on Mar 9, 2013 7:19:54 GMT -8
I agree with Burgess that we are at the bottom. May have to break my own rule and start buying back slowly next week and not wait three weeks for us to get to 483. ;D Do not be stupid. Have some damn discipline. I can't believe how excited you are over a 3.92 gain on the week. Doc, heal thyself! There's gotta be a better way to advise Ovi than to call him and/or his ideas stupid. Reword that shit without the attitude or put the sponge on ignore, but don't pollute the thread. I guess they don't teach civility in med school...
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Post by mace on Mar 9, 2013 9:11:00 GMT -8
Do not be stupid. Have some damn discipline. I can't believe how excited you are over a 3.92 gain on the week. Doc, heal thyself! There's gotta be a better way to advise Ovi than to call him and/or his ideas stupid. Reword that shit without the attitude or put the sponge on ignore, but don't pollute the thread. I guess they don't teach civility in med school... Another way of interpreting is he cares about sponge like his friend. We tend to be blunt towards friends and decorous towards strangers.
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Post by madmaxroi on Mar 9, 2013 9:13:47 GMT -8
Doc, heal thyself! There's gotta be a better way to advise Ovi than to call him and/or his ideas stupid. Reword that shit without the attitude or put the sponge on ignore, but don't pollute the thread. I guess they don't teach civility in med school... Another way of interpreting is he cares about sponge like his friend. We tend to be blunt towards friends and decorous towards strangers. Uh, yeah, that's the ticket.
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Post by sponge on Mar 9, 2013 9:18:15 GMT -8
Doc, heal thyself! There's gotta be a better way to advise Ovi than to call him and/or his ideas stupid. Reword that shit without the attitude or put the sponge on ignore, but don't pollute the thread. I guess they don't teach civility in med school... Another way of interpreting is he cares about sponge like his friend. We tend to be blunt towards friends and decorous towards strangers. No worries. I will take his advice and only buy when aapl goes up another $3. Lots of folks are angry at world when they lose money. I on the other hand shake it off and get back on the horse. If you ignore the peanut gallery and stay focused like TC and company you will be greatly rewarded. The fools who sold in 2009 and never got back into the stock lost out on 400% gains. We will recover quickly because Apple is stronger now more then ever. It's best days are in the future and I will keep repeating that like I did since 2005.
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Post by madmaxroi on Mar 9, 2013 9:29:51 GMT -8
Yesterday at 12:43pm, rickag wrote:
Yesterday at 11:08am, terps530 wrote:
had a similar thought the other day, also not based on any factual evidence, but more just what would 'typically' happen if i started writing mini-covered calls.
yes rickag. i believe you just lose gains when called away. I guess it all depends on the price difference from when you are called away and the price of your strike, because then if you are buying back in, your loss is that amount minus the gain from the call you wrote.
This may sound nutty but here goes.
Say I bought 100 shares today @ 432, then sold a covered call deep in the money. The call was sold for 7400 at a strike of 360. Then AAPL would have to get to > 434 to be call away. Good for me I made 7400 in one day AND I am out of the stock.
The downside is if it isn't called away I still made 7400 but the stock is going down. So next week on Friday say AAPL is 428, but my cost basis is still 432. I am starting $4 in the hole if I try to rinse and repeat. On the other hand if AAPL is up to say 435 then I am starting with a $3 gain and can rinse and repeat.
Must think this through.
This is equivalent to selling the put naked on the same line. You'll profit any premium in the option as long as the stock closes above 360 at expiration. Below 360 you'll have losses of (360+option premium)-stock price at expiration. However, this loss is unrealized until you sell the stock.
ABOVE WAS FROM THE INTRADAY THREAD...
Lorenzo, yours is the last paragraph...wouldn't the loss below 360 in your example be 360 minus the option premium received when the put was sold short minus the stock price at time of sale? Thus, if I received $2 when selling the put with a 360 strike and the shares were "put" to me, my cost basis is $358 (360 - option premium) and not $362 (360 + premium) and the $358 will be used to determine gain/loss when the shares are sold.
Rickag...in your example, your shares would be called away from you if the share price is above 430 at expiry. So, in effect, you would have received $434 ($360 plus the $74 in premium), or a $2 gain and not the $7,400 premium.
My two cents worth.
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Post by rosie on Mar 9, 2013 9:50:25 GMT -8
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platon
Member
"All we can know is that we know nothing. And that's the height of human wisdom.? Tolstoy
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Post by platon on Mar 9, 2013 10:16:48 GMT -8
Rickag...in your example, your shares would be called away from you if the share price is above 430 at expiry. So, in effect, you would have received $434 ($360 plus the $74 in premium), or a $2 gain and not the $7,400 premium. My two cents worth. Max since Rick is buying the stock and selling a call on it wouldn't his stock be called away if the stock is above $360 at expiration? The buyer would take the stock to cut his losses wouldn't he? Say the stock is at $400 at expiration, the buyer takes the stock at $360 and sells for $400 knocking $40 off his loss---$72-$40=$32 loss on transaction instead of losing the entire $72 if he lets it expire. I have been selling covered calls for a few of years and this is the way it seems to always happen. I have only kept the stock 1 time when the stock was above the strike at expiration and then it was only over the strike by a small margin and not worth the transaction fee I guess. For some, deep in the money covered calls offer a fairly conservative way of making a little money weekly but you can get hurt if you are too close to the money and the stock drops drastically. I have been buying 1k shares on Friday and selling deep in the money weekly calls on AAPL for the last year and making a couple of dollars on them. However I sold too close to the money during one of the really bad weeks when the stock dropped dramatically and then held thinking it would rebound. Wiped out a bunch of my profit but as we all know there are no sure things if you participate.
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Post by madmaxroi on Mar 9, 2013 10:31:49 GMT -8
Rickag...in your example, your shares would be called away from you if the share price is above 430 at expiry. So, in effect, you would have received $434 ($360 plus the $74 in premium), or a $2 gain and not the $7,400 premium. My two cents worth. Max since Rick is buying the stock and selling a call on it wouldn't his stock be called away if the stock is above $360 at expiration? The buyer would take the stock to cut his losses wouldn't he? Say the stock is at $400 at expiration, the buyer takes the stock at $360 and sells for $400 knocking $40 off his loss---$72-$40=$32 loss on transaction instead of losing the entire $72 if he lets it expire. I have been selling covered calls for a few of years and this is the way it seems to always happen. I have only kept the stock 1 time when the stock was above the strike at expiration and then it was only over the strike by a small margin and not worth the transaction fee I guess. For some, deep in the money covered calls offer a fairly conservative way of making a little money weekly but you can get hurt if you are too close to the money and the stock drops drastically. I have been buying 1k shares on Friday and selling deep in the money weekly calls on AAPL for the last year and making a couple of dollars on them. However I bought too close to the money during one of the really bad weeks when the stock dropped dramatically and then held thinking it would rebound. Wiped out a bunch of my profit but as we all know there are no sure things if you participate. Yes, Rick's stock would be called away and Rick would end up with a $2 per share gain. The holder of the call could also hold the called away shares from Rick rather than exercise and sell right away. In your example, any call holder that originally paid more than $40 for the $360 call option would be underwater with the share price at $400 at expiry as you suggest.
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Post by appledoc on Mar 9, 2013 10:52:51 GMT -8
Do not be stupid. Have some damn discipline. I can't believe how excited you are over a 3.92 gain on the week. Doc, heal thyself! There's gotta be a better way to advise Ovi than to call him and/or his ideas stupid. Reword that shit without the attitude or put the sponge on ignore, but don't pollute the thread. I guess they don't teach civility in med school... Please. I said that with good intentions, in hopes that he would listen. Much like iPad, I'm not really sure why I give a shit whether the rest of you make or lose money. I'm a blunt person. I don't like pussyfooting around. Just stick to your original plan sponge. It's a good one and a safe one. Missing out on $50 will not matter if we get to $800.
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