Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,097
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Post by Dave on Nov 23, 2022 2:12:21 GMT -8
Good morning, it’s Wednesday. Our pre-market is red at -0.09% at this moment. I would guess that most of the traders have left to enjoy the Thanksgiving holiday leaving the robots in charge, so anything is possible today. Huge Foxconn iPhone plant in China rocked by fresh worker unrestThanks Tim, the problem may be with Foxconn but the world will view it as Apple.
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chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,426
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Post by chinacat on Nov 23, 2022 7:18:10 GMT -8
What BS. I’m sure that you are going to donate all of your AAPL gains, which are a direct result of Tim’s many brilliant decisions over the years, to the Foxconn workers. I’m probably as far left as any AFB member, and my Dad was a union member for all of the years that he was a machinist keeping the presses running at the Providence Journal. So I assume that you plan to protest the opening of Foxconn plants in the US?
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,097
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Post by Dave on Nov 23, 2022 10:25:03 GMT -8
What BS. I’m sure that you are going to donate all of your AAPL gains, which are a direct result of Tim’s many brilliant decisions over the years, to the Foxconn workers. I’m probably as far left as any AFB member, and my Dad was a union member for all of the years that he was a machinist keeping the presses running at the Providence Journal. So I assume that you plan to protest the opening of Foxconn plants in the US? I’m not sure where all of that came from, but I’ll bite. Have you looked at the news feeds today, they are full of this story and I doubt that they will disappear any time soon. And there’s the stories about the wait time for a new iPhone that will be sometime in January. Just a little late for Christmas I’d say. But wait, what about an Android phone. What are the wait times for a Samsung phone? And where are the stories about the riots in South Korea? No, every riot story has the names Apple and iPhone in them and will be remembered longer than the name Foxconn. Tim Cook gets paid a very large salary and some amazing perks each year for this type of thing not to have happened. So it’s Tim the logistics guy, let’s all worship at his feet. I’ll bet he didn’t see this coming when he was investing so heavily in China, but he should have. Oh, and I promise to donate all of this years gains from Apple to the Foxconn workers.
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,628
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Post by 4aapl on Nov 23, 2022 11:48:19 GMT -8
Slowly over time, especially on complex problems, I’ve learned that there is no perfect solution. This is tough, especially as an engineer that thinks there should be a good solution. For a light hearted display of this, the last season of The Good Place points it out. This story from the stock app says opinions are turning at the Fed. Really it’s just a reiteration of what we know or think we know, from the meeting 3 weeks ago. We’ll see what thoughts are in 3 weeks at the next meeting. stocks.apple.com/ARx8nVnZ_SOS16qtVevEy1g
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Post by duckpins on Nov 23, 2022 11:56:57 GMT -8
Now WALL STREET crooks are saying TSLA has fallen enough? Do they decide this over dinner or lunch? Housing was actually better which may reflect buying ahead of feared mortgage increases. WELL I can't wait until Trump is reelected and things can get back to normal with no drama.
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Post by Luckychoices on Nov 23, 2022 13:26:46 GMT -8
What BS. I’m sure that you are going to donate all of your AAPL gains, which are a direct result of Tim’s many brilliant decisions over the years, to the Foxconn workers. I’m probably as far left as any AFB member, and my Dad was a union member for all of the years that he was a machinist keeping the presses running at the Providence Journal. So I assume that you plan to protest the opening of Foxconn plants in the US? I’m not sure where all of that came from, but I’ll bite. I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it came from your sarcastic, "Thanks Tim"...if you had just stated, "The problem may be with Foxconn but the world will view it as Apple", I wouldn't have given it a second thought. Have you looked at the news feeds today, they are full of this story and I doubt that they will disappear any time soon. And there’s the stories about the wait time for a new iPhone that will be sometime in January. Just a little late for Christmas I’d say. Yes, I think most AAPL investors are familiar with the stories from the news feeds. It's a terrible situation...but the fact that Apple is being emphasized in the news feeds should be no surprise to anyone at all. And yes, I'm sure most Apple investors are sorry to see how it will adversely affect Apple's Christmas sales. But wait, what about an Android phone. What are the wait times for a Samsung phone? And where are the stories about the riots in South Korea? No, every riot story has the names Apple and iPhone in them and will be remembered longer than the name Foxconn. Are you suggesting that someone who wants an iPhone will be fine with a Samsung instead? Yes, little Billy put iPhone on his Christmas wish list...but if Santa brings him a Samsung instead...he'll be equally pleased...not. Tim Cook gets paid a very large salary and some amazing perks each year for this type of thing not to have happened. So it’s Tim the logistics guy, let’s all worship at his feet. I’ll bet he didn’t see this coming when he was investing so heavily in China, but he should have. Yes, Tim Cook gets paid a very large salary every year...and he's worth it. If you don't agree, watch what happens to the Apple share price when Tim decides to retire. If you think Tim Cook is being compensated partially for his ability to foresee the future, I just don't agree. He's had to make critical decisions based on information knowable at the time. This particular situation was not knowable or foreseeable years ago. Hindsight is always 20/20. Oh, and I promise to donate all of this years gains from Apple to the Foxconn workers. That's a bit extreme...but very nice of you. Since AAPL is down almost 20% from its ATH, I assume you're donating your AAPL dividends. So, much less gain than most years, but still very nice.
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,097
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Post by Dave on Nov 23, 2022 15:02:15 GMT -8
I’m not sure where all of that came from, but I’ll bite. I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it came from your sarcastic, "Thanks Tim"...if you had just stated, "The problem may be with Foxconn but the world will view it as Apple", I wouldn't have given it a second thought. Have you looked at the news feeds today, they are full of this story and I doubt that they will disappear any time soon. And there’s the stories about the wait time for a new iPhone that will be sometime in January. Just a little late for Christmas I’d say. Yes, I think most AAPL investors are familiar with the stories from the news feeds. It's a terrible situation...but the fact that Apple is being emphasized in the news feeds should be no surprise to anyone at all. And yes, I'm sure most Apple investors are sorry to see how it will adversely affect Apple's Christmas sales. But wait, what about an Android phone. What are the wait times for a Samsung phone? And where are the stories about the riots in South Korea? No, every riot story has the names Apple and iPhone in them and will be remembered longer than the name Foxconn. Are you suggesting that someone who wants an iPhone will be fine with a Samsung instead? Yes, little Billy put iPhone on his Christmas wish list...but if Santa brings him a Samsung instead...he'll be equally pleased...not. Tim Cook gets paid a very large salary and some amazing perks each year for this type of thing not to have happened. So it’s Tim the logistics guy, let’s all worship at his feet. I’ll bet he didn’t see this coming when he was investing so heavily in China, but he should have. Yes, Tim Cook gets paid a very large salary every year...and he's worth it. If you don't agree, watch what happens to the Apple share price when Tim decides to retire. If you think Tim Cook is being compensated partially for his ability to foresee the future, I just don't agree. He's had to make critical decisions based on information knowable at the time. This particular situation was not knowable or foreseeable years ago. Hindsight is always 20/20. Oh, and I promise to donate all of this years gains from Apple to the Foxconn workers. That's a bit extreme...but very nice of you. Since AAPL is down almost 20% from its ATH, I assume you're donating your AAPL dividends. So, much less gain than most years, but still very nice. Yes, that was sarcasm. In this case it provides a indicator of my anger towards the person in charge of the most valuable company in the world. Now I think it’s only fair if you dissect Chinacat’s post also. Can’t wait.
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Post by aaplcrazie on Nov 23, 2022 15:37:08 GMT -8
🍿Anyone?
Fairies and Unicorns Fairies and Unicorns Happy Thanksgiving Fellow 🍏 Cult Members....Errr A • F • B 'ers.
🎉😂
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Post by Luckychoices on Nov 23, 2022 15:50:40 GMT -8
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it came from your sarcastic, "Thanks Tim"...if you had just stated, "The problem may be with Foxconn but the world will view it as Apple", I wouldn't have given it a second thought. Yes, that was sarcasm. In this case it provides a indicator of my anger towards the person in charge of the most valuable company in the world. Now I think it’s only fair if you dissect Chinacat’s post also. Can’t wait. Dave, I wouldn't have even responded to *your* post except for your "Thanks, Tim" phrase. I get so tired of reading comments from people piling on Tim Cook, for one thing or another...not so much on AFB, but certainly on Seeking Alpha and other sites. Does he make mistakes? Of course. Do I agree with all his decisions? Absolutely not. But he's helped Apple be extremely successful since he took over from Steve Jobs in 2011. I'm sorry you're so angry about Tim Cook...but I remember what Apple was like, from a shareholder perspective, *before* Steve returned and I personally hope Tim Cook remains Apple C.E.O. for many more years.
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,628
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Post by 4aapl on Nov 23, 2022 16:45:09 GMT -8
Now WALL STREET crooks are saying TSLA has fallen enough? Do they decide this over dinner or lunch? Housing was actually better which may reflect buying ahead of feared mortgage increases. WELL I can't wait until Trump is reelected and things can get back to normal with no drama. It’s interesting keeping up with other companies. Carvana lost 98% of its market cap, but has a loss and is borrowing 4-6x its market cap. Tesla on the other hand makes a profit, and a product many really like. My cousin was showing his new Tesla Y to us that they just drove down from seattle to the Bay Area, letting my wife and son drive it. While waiting outside for 15 minutes, at least 6 Tesla drove by in this neighborhood. Otoh, it was the Lamborghini that drove by that was more notable. In many areas, there are so many Teslas that they don’t stand out. Back to your post, unless there’s something on-topic about it, let’s try to keep former, current, or potential presidents out of it. While we might all have differing views on what might be good or bad on that front, this isn’t the place for it. Lambo drove by again, and I’m tired of typing this out on an iPhone. Happy Thanksgiving Eve!
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Post by hledgard on Nov 23, 2022 19:17:10 GMT -8
Really enjoyed the discussion above.
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platon
Member
"All we can know is that we know nothing. And that's the height of human wisdom.? Tolstoy
Posts: 3,944
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Post by platon on Nov 23, 2022 22:58:00 GMT -8
Yes, Tim Cook gets paid a very large salary every year...and he's worth it. If you don't agree, watch what happens to the Apple share price when Tim decides to retire. If you think Tim Cook is being compensated partially for his ability to foresee the future, I just don't agree. He's had to make critical decisions based on information knowable at the time. This particular situation was not knowable or foreseeable years ago. Hindsight is always 20/20. That statement is not quite accurate, Cook was well aware, and in fact warned, about the dangers of doing business in China by a man hired by Apple to define that risk. Cook had this information because Mr. Guthrie warned the companies doing business in China that Mr. Xi and the communist party were going to be a problem. These discussion were ongoing across the tech world and even on the old AFB boards. He is the CEO and he is responsible and Jobs maybe should have seen this coming as well, but Jobs didn't have the insight provided by Mr. Guthrie that was provided to Cook. www.ilounge.com/news/apple-china-warned-businessApple was warned about doing business in China By Abhay Ram @abhay4798 Published June 28, 2021 6:56 pm UTC Doug Guthrie, a leading American expert on the current stand of China in various industries, says that he warned Apple about the risks of doing business in the country. He was hired by the iPhone maker in 2014 to help the company better make strides in China. Guthrie has spent several years in China to understand the industries there. In 1994, he rode his bicycle between various factories in Shanghai, as part of his dissertation. After that, he turned out to be one of the known experts during the time when China was turning towards capitalism. A complete change in government policies However, in 2013, Xi Jinping took the highest office in China, as the president of the country. According to Guthrie, Xi Jinping was relying on companies like Apple to make himself strong in China. It would have been impossible and still continues to be difficult for tech companies to exit China, as it is a very lucrative market and it is very economical to manufacture and assemble products. Doug Guthrie “I was going around to business leaders, and I’m like: ‘Do you guys understand who Xi Jinping is? Are you listening to what’s going on here?’” said Mr. Guthrie, in an interview. “That was my big calling card.”
Guthrie tells the story of the investments the western companies have made in China over the years. While most companies and even many governments hoped that investments in China would lead the country towards liberalization, it appears as if all the steps had been miscalculated.
“It was always difficult for Western companies to do business in China, but in many ways the challenges have shifted,” said Samm Sacks, a specialist on China at the New American Foundation. “The Communist Party is firmly in control, and both Western companies and Chinese companies in the private sector have been under attack.”
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,097
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Post by Dave on Nov 24, 2022 3:37:35 GMT -8
Steve Jobs was noted for his famous quote about not skating to where the puck is but skating to where the puck is going to be and Steve was an expert at it. Admittedly a difficult thing to do, but Tim is the one that is in charge of Apple’s future now and those of its shareholders and while he gets the praise when Apple is successful and growing, as he should, he should also catch the hell for his mistakes. And this mistake will likely be devastating for the company and it’s future. And it’s sad because Apple’s product line is amazing and it’s customer base is huge and growing but that has no value if you can not supply the product. And there is nothing that can be done to correct this problem, at least nothing soon. Let’s hope that Tim’s recovery plan is rapid and effective. But let’s not make Tim Cook appear the victim here, its Apple the company and its shareholders that are the true victims. Apple’s competition will use this situation to their advantage, I promise.
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Post by macster on Nov 24, 2022 13:18:42 GMT -8
Yes, Tim Cook gets paid a very large salary every year...and he's worth it. If you don't agree, watch what happens to the Apple share price when Tim decides to retire. If you think Tim Cook is being compensated partially for his ability to foresee the future, I just don't agree. He's had to make critical decisions based on information knowable at the time. This particular situation was not knowable or foreseeable years ago. Hindsight is always 20/20. That statement is not quite accurate, Cook was well aware, and in fact warned, about the dangers of doing business in China by a man hired by Apple to define that risk. Cook had this information because Mr. Guthrie warned the companies doing business in China that Mr. Xi and the communist party were going to be a problem. These discussion were ongoing across the tech world and even on the old AFB boards. He is the CEO and he is responsible and Jobs maybe should have seen this coming as well, but Jobs didn't have the insight provided by Mr. Guthrie that was provided to Cook. www.ilounge.com/news/apple-china-warned-businessApple was warned about doing business in China By Abhay Ram @abhay4798 Published June 28, 2021 6:56 pm UTC Doug Guthrie, a leading American expert on the current stand of China in various industries, says that he warned Apple about the risks of doing business in the country. He was hired by the iPhone maker in 2014 to help the company better make strides in China. Guthrie has spent several years in China to understand the industries there. In 1994, he rode his bicycle between various factories in Shanghai, as part of his dissertation. After that, he turned out to be one of the known experts during the time when China was turning towards capitalism. A complete change in government policies However, in 2013, Xi Jinping took the highest office in China, as the president of the country. According to Guthrie, Xi Jinping was relying on companies like Apple to make himself strong in China. It would have been impossible and still continues to be difficult for tech companies to exit China, as it is a very lucrative market and it is very economical to manufacture and assemble products. Doug Guthrie “I was going around to business leaders, and I’m like: ‘Do you guys understand who Xi Jinping is? Are you listening to what’s going on here?’” said Mr. Guthrie, in an interview. “That was my big calling card.”
Guthrie tells the story of the investments the western companies have made in China over the years. While most companies and even many governments hoped that investments in China would lead the country towards liberalization, it appears as if all the steps had been miscalculated.
“It was always difficult for Western companies to do business in China, but in many ways the challenges have shifted,” said Samm Sacks, a specialist on China at the New American Foundation. “The Communist Party is firmly in control, and both Western companies and Chinese companies in the private sector have been under attack.”Gave you a like. Annoy an exploding liberal head with facts who uses financial quotes from a philosophical liberal person who’s many riches can be said to come from ill gotten gains. It will be hard for whats his name above to provide a comeback on this one and the points you brought up. Sorry if I’m being mean.
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