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Post by Lstream on Sept 25, 2012 5:55:50 GMT -8
So Eric Schmidt over at Google is busy acting like a jerk again. This time on the maps. Ya right, they want to be a "partner". This sounds like a guy who wants Apple to pay a price. Could they seriously be considering not doing an iOS app ASAP? The longer they wait, the better the Apple app gets, and the harder it becomes for Google to reclaim users. My feeling is that Mapgate will drive very few customers to the Android world that were not going to end up there anyway. I also think that Schmidt and the rest of Google are making a huge mistake if they don't aggressively pursue a native Maps app ASAP. So in spite of the current FUD flap, I think that the loss of iOS app is another casualty of an entirely reckless Android strategy. iOS accounts for the vast majority of mobile web traffic, and to think Google could have been the prime services beneficiary of this, if that rat Schmidt had chosen to be a loyal partner, and not an IP thief and betrayer. So my vote is short term pain for Apple, and big time, long term hurt for Google. What do others think?
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Post by Iceage on Sept 25, 2012 6:29:16 GMT -8
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Post by Tetrachloride on Sept 25, 2012 6:46:34 GMT -8
My tea leaves say that Google's version of iOS 6 Maps would be about as acceptable as some rejected versions of iOS Facebook.
Neither Google nor Facebook gets to sink their hooks deep into consumer data anymore.
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Post by Lstream on Sept 25, 2012 6:57:25 GMT -8
My tea leaves say that Google's version of iOS 6 Maps would be about as acceptable as some rejected versions of iOS Facebook. Neither Google nor Facebook gets to sink their hooks deep into consumer data anymore. Why would the app suck? The old one doesn't.
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Post by drewbear on Sept 25, 2012 8:26:06 GMT -8
...I think that the loss of iOS app is another casualty of an entirely reckless Android strategy. iOS accounts for the vast majority of mobile web traffic, and to think Google could have been the prime services beneficiary of this, if that rat Schmidt had chosen to be a loyal partner, and not an IP thief and betrayer. So my vote is short term pain for Apple, and big time, long term hurt for Google. Yep. I doubt there's even short term pain for Apple except in terms of FUD. iPhone sales will not be affected. Schmidt is just doing his job and trying to spin it in Google's favor. The media play along because it generates page views. Let's wait for the earnings reports for the Dec. and Mar. quarters. Apple will report well over $50B of iPhone revenue for those 6 months, while Google might mumble something about a mobile ad run rate of $4-5B for the next 12 months. Android/Google wins? Yeah. Right.
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Post by mjuarez on Sept 25, 2012 20:52:33 GMT -8
My tea leaves say that Google's version of iOS 6 Maps would be about as acceptable as some rejected versions of iOS Facebook. Neither Google nor Facebook gets to sink their hooks deep into consumer data anymore. Why would the app suck? The old one doesn't. Well, for one, the old app wasn't made by Google. It was made by Apple. Google only provided the data, and in turn, got all the feedback from hundreds of millions of Apple users. This was a classic "confuse your enemy" move. There's news reports out there today saying that Apple still had an entire year on their Maps license. IMHO, this made Google think that Apple would not drop their Maps app. But, that is exactly what happened. They lost the main iOS app premium positioning, and all that valuable information from users. Just a couple of weeks after release, there's already been 100M+ iOS 6.0 upgrades. That's 100M less Google Maps users, and it will probably grow to 250M before the end of the year. So now, Google is scrambling, and these are their problems: - They need to build a decent Maps app from zero, in an operating system that is not their specialty, and in which they can't control the hardware.
- They lost Siri access for sure. I'm pretty sure there is no way to change this in iOS 6. If you ask Siri to give you directions to anywhere, it will always go to Apple Maps.
- They'll need to try to add all the gizmos and features Apple's Maps, or their app will seem subpar. In iOS 6, Google Maps had no turn by turn navigation and definitely no 3D view.
- And finally, once they complete their app, Google still needs to get in line, and send their app to Apple, to see if they deem it worthy of acceptance in the App store.
Remember that Apple holds total control on the apps submitted. They can decide to reject, accept, or leave them in pending status for months on end. They make the rules, you have to play by them, or you'll get kicked out. In their own walled garden, they're judge and jury, and you either accept that, or gtfo. It's that simple.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Sept 25, 2012 23:14:11 GMT -8
I remember being elsewhere in the US with my 3rd gen iPad, looking for a restaurant or something and seeing "Sponsored Link"...
IN MY MAPS?!
At least with Apple...never friggin' again. Yes, PR problem but that's not unique to Apple even under Steve Jobs ("you're holding it wrong"), it's how they fix it up that'll matter in the weeks and months ahead.
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Post by mjuarez on Sept 26, 2012 0:22:33 GMT -8
I remember being elsewhere in the US with my 3rd gen iPad, looking for a restaurant or something and seeing "Sponsored Link"... IN MY MAPS?! At least with Apple...never friggin' again. Yes, PR problem but that's not unique to Apple even under Steve Jobs ("you're holding it wrong"), it's how they fix it up that'll matter in the weeks and months ahead. +100 on that. I HATE those "Sponsored Results". I don't want ads, just get me the place I want! This gives even more weight to why Apple should own the entire maps infrastructure.
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Post by Lstream on Sept 26, 2012 3:03:18 GMT -8
mjuarez,
Thanks for that. Google's challenge is tougher than I understood. However, they are certainly not new to iOS development, given all the other Google apps on the platform. Regarding the app approval process, I am only too familiar with it. Our company just went through this. The process is opaque, and you can get rejected for rules that you do not even know exist.
Love it when you look at those iOS 6 numbers and the step function loss in users for Google. I wonder if and when the same thing happens on search.
The Wall Street double standard is brought into sharp focus by this entire situation. Here we have Google bleeding users in the last week. And what happens to the stock? All-time highs.
Plus, over the past several years, the press fawns over Android market share and activation statistics. Virtually no one questions the complete lack of wisdom and judgment that is their Android strategy. Nor do they even question the impending impact of being methodically locked out of the industries dominant mobile operating system, which just happens to account for the vast majority of mobile Web traffic. I struggle to understand why no one seems to actually get this in the tech media and blogosphere. I guess stories that openly question Google don't generate enough page hits.
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Post by mbeauch on Sept 26, 2012 5:03:32 GMT -8
Google is very connected, all the way to the top.They also spend a lot of money on lobbyist. Apple has only recently gotten into this with the tax issue.
I for one like the look of the maps page on my ipad. I really don't see what all the fuss is, but it works in my area.
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Post by Odd-Lot Richard on Sept 26, 2012 5:09:16 GMT -8
The licensing terms to the Google map data supposedly got an expensive recently, so there was that incentive to get out. If Apple got out of their license with perhaps a contractually lower rate a year early then there must be some other compelling cause; perhaps they wanted to ensure the transition of users to the new Maps to be complete by the end of the old licensing terms. Otherwise, why not leave it in place while perfecting their own? Usually these things take a sigma curve, not a cliff, with less savvy users or more conservative users changing at the tail end, and always some users not transitioning at all.
I did not get ads while using it, but that could be that I had mostly transitioned already to Yelp, MotionX Drive, and others, using the app only to find where I was after having fallen asleep on the train. Google Maps will suck if they put in extra, non-map ads, but they're smart enough to see how onerous that would be. Sponsored locations and the data collection angle of Maps (tied in, of course, to your google account in order to allow you to save and conveniently access all the things you and Google need to know to keep track of your Real Life [tm] in addition to your Internet life) would be what Google could use to ensure their competitiveness with Amazon, Facebook, and Apple.
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Post by drewbear on Sept 26, 2012 14:02:29 GMT -8
More details emerging after Schmidt flaps his gums.
This was a good time to make this switch. iPhone 5 is selling like crazy and iOS users are upgrading to iOS 6 in record numbers. Although there are undoubtedly people suffering from the map switch, I think the majority are happy with the new UI, turn-by-turn nav and Siri integration.
Apple is now receiving massive amounts of data from maps users. I'm certain they are working round the clock to improve Maps so that 90+% of iOS users are happy. There will always be gaps in the map data; even Google has them despite all their years of map experience.
BTW, anyone who misses "street view" can download the "Live Street View" app. There's a free version and a 99¢ ad-free version. I haven't used it much, but it looks ok...probably not as fluid as the Google version, but it'll do.
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Post by mbeauch on Sept 26, 2012 18:58:25 GMT -8
I was concerned at first over map-gate. Now that I have used it, it is a step in the right direction. If people enable location services on their phones it will compiled data faster than we can imagine. I know I crossed two new roads that maps did not know existed. Now that I have traveled on them it will for me and others now. The big kicker is Apple wants it to be ad free, Google does not. Why is this not headline news? Apple wants to sell you a phone, but they want your experience to be the best it can be without having to charge you an arm and a leg. OK, now I am sounding like a homer, I give.
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Post by PikesPique on Sept 28, 2012 6:04:05 GMT -8
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Post by Odd-Lot Richard on Sept 28, 2012 6:56:51 GMT -8
The one thing I am disappointed in is this: I remember when Google came out with Maps for my phone at the time, either the Treo or the Centro. I installed it and was marveling to my colleagues—I was on assignment in So Cal at the time—how Google got almost everything right, on the first try; it was head, shoulders, and torso better graphically than anything else on my Treo, and was updating the tiles quickly even over a CDMA connection. I know that Apple will catch up, but anyway.
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Post by Odd-Lot Richard on Sept 28, 2012 7:06:43 GMT -8
Ack, now TC is apologizing.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Sept 28, 2012 11:17:06 GMT -8
SELL. SELL NOW.
My favorite Apple is the burning with shame Apple. Great way to evaluate how well they can pick themselves off the floor and get things fixed.
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Post by roni on Sept 29, 2012 15:27:41 GMT -8
Little silly to say they are on the floor
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Sept 29, 2012 15:35:53 GMT -8
Well, johnG called it the worst...mistake in 10 years. Apple did fall flat on its face PR-wise. This should have been advertised as a beta from the very beginning. At the very least, could've managed expectations better than it did. Instead, they suffered from myopia, selective awesomeness in select cities, you name it.
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Post by roni on Sept 29, 2012 15:38:29 GMT -8
I hope they spank Scott.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Sept 29, 2012 15:41:14 GMT -8
Oh, he's feelin' it, I'm quite sure. Probably hasn't been this embarassed since the last time he failed to inflate that balloon. (Which, btw, brings up another "fail" to the extent that the iPhone-driving-devices initiative in iOS 3.0 doesn't seem to have really taken off beyond credit card readers/some e-commerce and a few other things.)
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Post by Zeke on Sept 29, 2012 20:23:45 GMT -8
For the past 3 years I've done little else than test communication software gathering realtime data from millions of end points every 30 minutes 24/7/365. You can throw all of the testing you want at such a system, but you will still never know how it's going to perform under real world conditions when you go live. You simply can't simulate hundreds of millions of users. If even .001% of communication instances fails that is a significant issue and you may never have seen the failure in your testing. Designing tests is a science and it's not yet perfected. I believe Apple pretty much had to pull the trigger and try to handle any fallout in order to get the maps app up and running. Sometimes you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs.
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Post by dduck on Sept 30, 2012 10:54:04 GMT -8
You know, about the maps... I think it's quite possible that Apple just didn't expect that this would happen. Every indication was that the quality was fine!
Every single iOS developer who bothered to get iOS had the maps ever since they were put in the builds. That means that tens of thousands of people used the maps for months! I heard NO complaints, not even in the closed developer discussion boards. What's more, no stories of "The maps suck" were "leaked" before the release, and you just know that all the bloggers who follow Apple have found ways to get the new OS releases before general availability. Perhaps just by registering as devs...
I personally used the maps and navigation for a month, and was very impressed. I live in Copenhagen. A capital city for sure, but a tiny one in a teeny tiny country, and guess what: We got the flyover maps, and the navigation can find my daughter's softball pitch, my folks summer house in a tiny fishing village you've never heard of, and Siri will even find my nearest pet store now if I ask nicely (in US English though, not Danish).
So what I'm trying to say is that it's really not that bad - at least in general - and has the feel of a manufactured crisis.
Eventually this will die down. Just like antennagate.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Sept 30, 2012 12:06:16 GMT -8
Well, it IS bad in spots. Navigation can be wonky though the interface is beautiful (I blame part of that on unreliable GPS - something I'm sure Apple will keep looking into improving now that nav is expected on all future iPhones - also, I guess better keep Wi-Fi on now to improve triangulation).
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Post by hamourabi on Oct 3, 2012 5:27:55 GMT -8
I feel very different and in fact positive about the new IOS map app. I think it is the first step in a huge disruption off the map or locality based services industry. Apple is quite likely planning to allow third parties to sell map services upon IOS map app exactly like they sell media files or apps. In a few month Apple is going to open a map store. All the short sighted critics of the new map app do not realize its huge potential ( an superiority to all the other map foundation systems ) and they really do not see the writing on the wall. Here is a good read counternotions.com/2012/10/02/next-turn/
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