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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 14:45:08 GMT -8
My problem with Icahn, or perhaps it should be "Itroll", is that he couldn't care less about Apple the company. When he looks at Apple, he does not see a company able to change the world and that has the cash to do it. Instead he just sees a big pile of money and the opportunity to make a fast buck.
His whole plan to spend Apple's cash and get the company into debt is solely about locking in $85+ profit a share on his entire position. As soon as that's done, he'll move onto the next company to loot and leave in a far worse position. That is his modus operandi. He's not a visionary. He's not someone likely to change the world for the better. He's a corporate raider who sets out to wreck companies for his own personal gain.
If you genuinely have a desire to see Apple do well and prosper in both good and bad times, then Icahn is one dog you don't want to lie down with.
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Post by podboy on Oct 24, 2013 14:49:41 GMT -8
Carl has a $1250 price target with the buyback. Zaky? Is that you??
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Post by sponge on Oct 24, 2013 14:57:25 GMT -8
Carl has a $1250 price target with the buyback. Zaky? Is that you?? We can get there without more debt for buybacks. Grow earnings and investors with reward shareholders by buying more stock and holding. Institutions have plenty of cash to buy Apple. No one will talk about buyback when we get past 700. Everyone will scream dividends and stock splits then.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 14:57:37 GMT -8
If Apple has excess cash, then Warren Buffet is right about the options: 1. Buyback 2. Dividends 3. Acquisition 4. Sit on it.
I'm for #1 unless there's an acquisition that makes sense. If not, cash is unproductive for both the company and shareholders. Dividends are too inflexible, as expectations are that they will never be reduced (when business reasons could mandate a reduction). Sitting on it ain't doing squat for the stock.
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Post by redinaustin on Oct 24, 2013 14:58:49 GMT -8
My problem with Icahn, or perhaps it should be "Itroll", is that he couldn't care less about Apple the company. When he looks at Apple, he does not see a company able to change the world and that has the cash to do it. Instead he just sees a big pile of money and the opportunity to make a fast buck. His whole plan to spend Apple's cash and get the company into debt is solely about locking in $85+ profit a share on his entire position. As soon as that's done, he'll move onto the next company to loot and leave in a far worse position. That is his modus operandi. He's not a visionary. He's not someone likely to change the world for the better. He's a corporate raider who sets out to wreck companies for his own personal gain. If you genuinely have a desire to see Apple do well and prosper in both good and bad times, then Icahn is one dog you don't want to lie down with. ![](http://huskerpowerhour.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/starterset_button5.gif)
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Oct 24, 2013 15:00:46 GMT -8
Apple will expand buybacks over time, I'm quite sure of it.
As far as iCahn, love him, hate him, no one can DO anything about him.
So I just try the best I can to "work around" him.
Dude made his $85. He could leave if he wanted. But he's not gone yet. The more he shouts, the more you know he's not going anywhere yet.
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Post by Lstream on Oct 24, 2013 15:03:20 GMT -8
Apple will expand buybacks over time, I'm quite sure of it. As far as iCahn, love him, hate him, no one can DO anything about him. So I just try the best I can to "work around" him. Dude made his $85. He could leave if he wanted. But he's not gone yet. The more he shouts, the more you know he's not going anywhere yet. Seems like he wants a triple or more, like he got with Netflix.
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JDSoCal
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Post by JDSoCal on Oct 24, 2013 15:09:08 GMT -8
Apple will expand buybacks over time, I'm quite sure of it. As far as iCahn, love him, hate him, no one can DO anything about him. Hi, you must be new here. One of the main purposes of this forum is to complain about forces beyond our control. The other purpose is to debate others to the death over their opinions on all things Apple, as if they were advocating communist dictatorship in America. And finally, this forum is to serve as advice for Apple's CEO how to run his company, although none of us has any experience or expertise even remotely relevant to running a Fortune 500 consumer tech company, and Tim Cook has never visited this site, and never will. Hope that clears things up. Welcome aboard!
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Post by BillH on Oct 24, 2013 15:12:54 GMT -8
Apple will expand buybacks over time, I'm quite sure of it. As far as iCahn, love him, hate him, no one can DO anything about him. Hi, you must be new here. One of the main purposes of this forum is to complain about forces beyond our control. The other purpose is to debate others to the death over their opinions on all things Apple, as if they were advocating communist dictatorship in America. And finally, this forum is to serve as advice for Apple's CEO how to run his company, although none of us has any experience or expertise even remotely relevant to running a Fortune 500 consumer tech company, and Tim Cook has never visited this site, and never will. Hope that clears things up. Welcome aboard! Well...,and entertainment value. ;D
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Oct 24, 2013 15:14:11 GMT -8
Thanks JD! I'm sure I'll regret enjoy my stay!
And please don't mind my banner ads. It's a tic. ;D
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Oct 24, 2013 15:17:17 GMT -8
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 15:18:13 GMT -8
Apple store finally back up in the 28 new markets getting the iPhone today (an extra billion or so potential iPhone owners).
Finally was able to order a 5S, 2-3 weeks delivery on all colors & storage options.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 15:27:18 GMT -8
In an interview this week, Carl would want you to know that his timing on NFLX was motivated by his huge gain and that most of his investments are much more longer term (without offering specifics). I can't fault his holding period on NFLX, can anyone?
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Post by podboy on Oct 24, 2013 15:30:21 GMT -8
Up 11 of the last 12 days. Someone (ie. big boys) knows something. I think the 9 mil. iphone # was the tall tale sign.
Guidance is still up in the air though. I know one thing, I always regret watching the after hours ticker once Tim starts the conference call. I go from joy to oh no to oh shit.
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JDSoCal
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Post by JDSoCal on Oct 24, 2013 15:44:03 GMT -8
Samsung beat by 11 won, whatever the f--- a won is.
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Post by aapl4kiki on Oct 24, 2013 15:48:36 GMT -8
Up 11 of the last 12 days. Someone (ie. big boys) knows something. I think the 9 mil. iphone # was the tall tale sign. Guidance is still up in the air though. I know one thing, I always regret watching the after hours ticker once Tim starts the conference call. I go from joy to oh no to oh shit. If guidance is what the optimists here believe it will be, it won't matter. This time is different. Sorry, couldn't resist.
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Post by phoebear611 on Oct 24, 2013 15:52:29 GMT -8
It varies with Icahn on holding period and he is also very creative with options to accumulate shares as well buys calls - sells puts - especially when he wants to be under the radar and growing a position. Then he doesn't have to file till he exercises the option but he has ownership (so to speak) already. I think we all know that Icahn is up against a behemoth in AAPL but he is keeping the conversation going and the pile of cash on the front burner. It's not disastrous but it makes it very uncomfortable.
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chinacat
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Post by chinacat on Oct 24, 2013 15:56:49 GMT -8
Apple store finally back up in the 28 new markets getting the iPhone today (an extra billion or so potential iPhone owners). Finally was able to order a 5S, 2-3 weeks delivery on all colors & storage options. Congratulations and thank you for your contribution to the cause! So whadja get?
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Post by mrentropy on Oct 24, 2013 16:01:54 GMT -8
My favorite bit of bias today with regards to Amazon's numbers. Amazon's forecast, which is below what the street expects, is "conservative". When Apple's is below what the street expects, it is "disappointing." Always with the negative waves, mrentropy. Always with the negative waves. HAHA! I actually laughed out loud. Nice reference catch from my avatar. Best. Movie. Ever. In other news, I hope everyone is enjoying the Apple ride
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Post by mrentropy on Oct 24, 2013 16:05:59 GMT -8
If Apple has excess cash, then Warren Buffet is right about the options: 1. Buyback 2. Dividends 3. Acquisition 4. Sit on it. I'm for #1 unless there's an acquisition that makes sense. If not, cash is unproductive for both the company and shareholders. Dividends are too inflexible, as expectations are that they will never be reduced (when business reasons could mandate a reduction). Sitting on it ain't doing squat for the stock. I would agree that #4 is the worst option. As we saw at the end of last year and early this year, the longer you sit on it, the more the street discounts the cash. Pretty soon, it assumes it isn't even there. I think that $150B is a bit too big. granted, apple is generating about $50B a year in cash, but borrowing an amount equal o the cash seems excessive. I'm also struggling with Icahn's suggested $525 offer value. Why do the offer at below market rates? Who would take that deal? Wouldn't that hold the stock down in the short term? Maybe someone more knowledgable than me can answer that...
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Post by mace on Oct 24, 2013 16:06:25 GMT -8
I would love it if the next time iCahn does an interview he gets asked a few product specific questions. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't know the difference between a 5S or 5C ... Macbook Air or Pro. Some won't care and argue he's a finance guy but as far as I'm concerned the reason Apple is still around today is because they threw those guys out on their asses when Steve came back. Those kind of people are dangerous to Apple's culture. Apple is a success because of a single vision of making great products ...as soon as you get bean counters in a position of power you are asking for a huge culture clash. +4.7 billion.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 16:11:42 GMT -8
If Apple has excess cash, then Warren Buffet is right about the options: 1. Buyback 2. Dividends 3. Acquisition 4. Sit on it. I'm for #1 unless there's an acquisition that makes sense. If not, cash is unproductive for both the company and shareholders. Dividends are too inflexible, as expectations are that they will never be reduced (when business reasons could mandate a reduction). Sitting on it ain't doing squat for the stock. I would agree that #4 is the worst option. As we saw at the end of last year and early this year, the longer you sit on it, the more the street discounts the cash. Pretty soon, it assumes it isn't even there. I think that $150B is a bit too big. granted, apple is generating about $50B a year in cash, but borrowing an amount equal o the cash seems excessive. I'm also struggling with Icahn's suggested $525 offer value. Why do the offer at below market rates? Who would take that deal? Wouldn't that hold the stock down in the short term? Maybe someone more knowledgable than me can answer that... I believe Apple was trading at $525 at the time he released his letter. And yeah, $150B is too big -- I'm in favor of an additional $60 - $75B buyback. Carl is "negotiating" with $150B.
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Post by mace on Oct 24, 2013 16:16:28 GMT -8
If Apple has excess cash, then Warren Buffet is right about the options: 1. Buyback 2. Dividends 3. Acquisition 4. Sit on it. I'm for #1 unless there's an acquisition that makes sense. If not, cash is unproductive for both the company and shareholders. Dividends are too inflexible, as expectations are that they will never be reduced (when business reasons could mandate a reduction). Sitting on it ain't doing squat for the stock. You're long calls and is an account right ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Oct 24, 2013 16:18:05 GMT -8
phoebear - while true, "what can you do"? You literally have no choice but to trust Apple "keeping the reins" on iCahn and hoping everyone else votes their proxy the way you do. There's AAPL's huge valuation as a natural check on individual shareholders' power, too. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Good results and guidance probably mean iCahn can agitate all he wants, the BOD will remain in place next year, while Tim will probably add another year and another "token" $20B or so to the buyback/dividend program to keep iCahn at bay (never mind his eternal dissatisfaction that Apple refuses to leverage the entire company to finance tender offers). I don't think iCahn is dumb enough to believe Apple would do that. Surely even he knows that Apple adding that much debt to its balance sheet has ripple effects far beyond inevitably higher bond interest rates the more debt Apple takes on.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Oct 24, 2013 16:34:40 GMT -8
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Post by gtrplyr on Oct 24, 2013 16:49:14 GMT -8
Apple will expand buybacks over time, I'm quite sure of it. As far as iCahn, love him, hate him, no one can DO anything about him. Hi, you must be new here. One of the main purposes of this forum is to complain about forces beyond our control. The other purpose is to debate others to the death over their opinions on all things Apple, as if they were advocating communist dictatorship in America. And finally, this forum is to serve as advice for Apple's CEO how to run his company, although none of us has any experience or expertise even remotely relevant to running a Fortune 500 consumer tech company, and Tim Cook has never visited this site, and never will. Hope that clears things up. Welcome aboard! I bet Tim will laugh his ass off when he reads your post ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 16:53:27 GMT -8
You're long calls and is an account right ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) I'm not opposed for Apple leaving room to boost the dividend but not to the level suggested of a buyback. Apple is in a war for talent and stock options are a significant part of Apple's compensation draw. Tim and Co. have to compete and GOOG and FB are both eating Apple's lunch on that score.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 17:01:54 GMT -8
Apple store finally back up in the 28 new markets getting the iPhone today (an extra billion or so potential iPhone owners). Finally was able to order a 5S, 2-3 weeks delivery on all colors & storage options. Congratulations and thank you for your contribution to the cause! So whadja get? white/silver 32GB ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Oct 24, 2013 17:08:15 GMT -8
How much is being spent on either companies' SBCE? For Apple it was about $2B this fiscal year. We need those numbers to start the comparison.
Also, consumer software may be free but I didn't hear anything about Caffe Macs. Apple is "merely okay" in perks last I checked, as it's been for a long while (extra days off for Thanksgiving notwithstanding)
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Oct 24, 2013 17:11:07 GMT -8
NFLX and AMZN - a tale of two LOL stock prices.
AMZN up 8% AH. Sheesh.
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