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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 15:18:27 GMT -8
I applaud you for taking the time to explain something that is clear and relevant. But not all students get it the first time. Except that the threat to Apple (if there is really one) in not valuation at all. I am with others when they say that Bezos would be driving the same strategy no matter how Wall Street valued the stock. He has a particular vision that he will not be shaken from. The real issue is customers, which is all Bezos really cares about. As long as customers keep flocking to his company, as they apparently did this season, he will keep implementing and investing in the business. Amazon's valuation is an imaginary enemy. If Amazon is really some kind of threat to Apple, it is due to the millions of people buying product from them. That is the world the Amazon haters need to change, not WS valuation. Good luck with that. The company offers an amazing service that is only going to get better. I think the real lesson in all of this is the value of vision and a story. Bezos is the best there is at making people believe an extremely simple story - "Amazon is going to dominate retail - even if it takes decades" And customer traction causes investors to believe he is right. Plus the fact that there is no competitor on the horizon who has any hope of stopping him. Compare that to Cook, who essentially refuses to say anything specific about Apple's vision. Just the same old tired "trust us, we make great products" line. All this complaining about Amazon valuation is misplaced and futile. The real "enemy" is happy customers. And there is no sign of that changing any time soon. So if anyone here wants to go on a crusade against Amazon, the ONLY metric that will change anything is sales and customer satisfaction. Take the fight there if you think you have any hope at righting this "wrong". Amazon's valuation could drop by a factor of ten tomorrow, and it wouldn't change a thing. Bezos is unshakable in his vision and tenacity. Well said and I completely agree...so I assume everyone here is also bitter about Twitter, Tesla or any other tech company that doesn't have a "fair" valuation. There are 2 options, stop talking about it cause it's complaining with no purpose or else post how you're doing something about it like shorting it or not using their products. No one wants to hear kids complaining about how life isn't fair...the stock market isn't fair either, get over it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 15:21:35 GMT -8
... It's not even a competitor. I could understand Samsung or Microsoft being a comparison, but Amazon isn't. It's not a competitor ... Amazon is a competitor because both Apple and Amazon are retailers . Off the cuff, skirmishes so far are Kindles vs iPads, ebook pricing, use of "App Store", digital music, etc. The battle over eBooks and digital music has to be closely monitored. True, but what % of Apples profit comes from selling books and music. If someone comes out with an MP3 player to rival the iPod, would anyone notice? The kindle is not a threat or competitor to the iPad, bezos said so himself
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Post by mace on Dec 29, 2013 15:26:55 GMT -8
The kindle is not a threat or competitor to the iPad, bezos said so himself Unwise to listen to a competitor . A spark can burn down a forest .
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Post by mace on Dec 29, 2013 15:29:29 GMT -8
No one wants to hear kids complaining about how life isn't fair...the stock market isn't fair either, get over it. True but we need to let them do so. Ranting and whining are ways to steam off.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 15:48:26 GMT -8
Thanks. I take that as you admitting you are incapable of a reasoned and intelligent response. Not surprising. I no longer get upset at those low blows because I expect it from you. But put your money where your mouth is and get out of aapl and buy Amazon. Also why don't you counter my arguments that detailed a few hours ago. Show me how Amazon's model is bullet proof from competition like Target, Walmart, or even Apple. Market share of customers is not a secret to making future profits. Apple has taught us well. Put your money where your mouth is and short Amazon since you're so confident they're doomed
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Post by nagrani on Dec 29, 2013 15:48:44 GMT -8
China mobile was announced last Sunday and we went up 11 bucks on the week. Let's see if we get some love this week from the market. New months usually bring new dollars into the market via the retail community and all of the mutual funds. I wouldn't want to be short here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 16:26:13 GMT -8
Here's another photo I took today at Apple retail. This is a gorgeous piece of hardware. I was stunned by the heft. Now it just needs a new 4k display that will promptly unsheathe my CC.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Dec 29, 2013 16:28:28 GMT -8
I just love how compact Mac Pro is. Gotta see one in person soon.
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Post by archibaldtuttle on Dec 29, 2013 16:37:17 GMT -8
Very cool feat of engineering. But as a pro user this seems like a solution in need of a problem. Mac Pros almost never need to be portable.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Dec 29, 2013 16:55:27 GMT -8
Smartphones don't need to be so small. Tablets don't need to be so thin. Screen resolutions don't need to be so high. It's an Apple thing, and I say that seriously. Now as far as Mac Pro, funny thing is a lot of reviewers _do_ seem to appreciate its virtues. It _is_ a very fast and capable machine that prices out very favorably relative to the competition. No spare card slots or RAID arrays or whatever, but Apple probably has the better of the argument in terms of the indeterminate future of expansion. Form factors change (megatrend towards NAND flash storage), a given chassis can only support so much future technology, but Thunderbolt 1/2+ interconnects should stick around a while if Apple and Intel support the ecosystem and there's enough demand. The strategy might not work, but hey, changing the game to incorporate its own technologies as standards is Apple's thing too.
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Post by rezonate on Dec 29, 2013 18:48:01 GMT -8
I have fingers crossed for adding huge variety in thunderbolt products at CES 2014. By forcing all the tech into a single package the new Mac Pro solves several problems: latency, fan noise, heat (smaller solid state components need smaller power supply ~ less heat.) The portability is a residual feature.
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Post by nagrani on Dec 29, 2013 18:58:21 GMT -8
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Post by lovemyipad on Dec 29, 2013 20:26:41 GMT -8
Put your money where your mouth is and short Amazon since you're so confident they're doomed I'm short enough for everyone. I don't think they're doomed; I think the chart is parabolic. Which is not a good enough reason to short. Because this can go on longer than expected. Clearly. But vertical up tends to lead to vertical down. We experienced it with the fruit, and I'm hypothesizing other charts will share the fruit's experience. So while others buy and hold, I am trying short and hold. We'll see how it works out. ;D Would have been far smarter to wait for support to decisively break. Thus far, all breach, no break. Speaking of which. AAPL is sitting on daily support at the moment.
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platon
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Post by platon on Dec 29, 2013 20:28:06 GMT -8
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Post by nagrani on Dec 29, 2013 20:33:14 GMT -8
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Post by nagrani on Dec 29, 2013 20:35:04 GMT -8
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Post by sponge on Dec 29, 2013 20:47:27 GMT -8
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 21:14:15 GMT -8
+1. Must watching. Take away from someone who advised Steve Jobs: CM can sell 25M iPhones in first 6 months. Also, with CM, Apple can vault from 6th place to 2nd or 1st in China over next 24 months.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 21:16:11 GMT -8
Also excellent. Apple is in a sweet spot right now, at least historically.
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Post by firestorm on Dec 29, 2013 22:47:53 GMT -8
Like it or not, Jeff Bezos is the new Steve Jobs in terms of the breadth and expansiveness of his vision. Perhaps more so, though his perfectionistic personality goes in different directions than Jobs. He is the kind of business visionary that comes along once in a generation, and it will be a relatively short time before Amazon is the biggest company in the world. It may not be the most profitable, but it will have the largest sales and largest valuation.
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Post by gtrplyr on Dec 29, 2013 23:17:01 GMT -8
Best thing posted all weekend ! Thanks sponge
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JDSoCal
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Post by JDSoCal on Dec 30, 2013 0:12:59 GMT -8
Best thing posted all weekend ! In fairness, that's a pretty low bar. It's like saying, "she's the hottest chick at MIT." Or, "my son has the biggest johnson in pre-school." Or, "least bad prison rape ever." Good talk though. Can't believe it's been 6 years, and Tim Cook still hasn't made Xi Guohua his BFF yet.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Dec 30, 2013 1:04:01 GMT -8
AMZN's valuation is ridiculous. If you disagree that the multiple is high, that's fine.
Talking about AMZN's valuation - and the relative valuation of other companies - is also fine IMHO. And LOLing about AMZN's valuation isn't an ad hominem or whatever attack on Amazon or Bezos, if I'm saying it right. I respect Amazon, mostly, and I shop the 'Zon regularly. I don't doubt Amazon isn't going anywhere.
As far as Amazon being the biggest company in the world, let's see over time. It's at $70B on a ttm basis. Lately it's grown at a ~20% rev clip YOY, and as business physics instructs us, that'll be tough to sustain the higher the rev levels go. Wal-Mart brought in almost $475B on a ttm basis. Amazon's still some ways off.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2013 6:53:38 GMT -8
Also excellent. Apple is in a sweet spot right now, at least historically. I've been trading my own historical patterns for about 6 weeks. For this week I'm showing a 3.3% gain from last Friday's intraday low. Here's the deal, this year AAPL has failed to perform according to historical pattern. With today's early action it looks like this week will be no different. Another point to consider: at about this point prior to earnings institutions seem to start making their earnings play. What we should be seeing is increasing volume. Unlike other pre-earnings periods, the holidays may be impacting the start, because volume certainly isn't haooening, nor is the rise in AAPL that normally accompanies it.
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