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Post by Luckychoices on Jan 13, 2014 14:30:38 GMT -8
Good move by google into home automation. Just rewards for Tony Fadell as well. Will be interesting to see if Nest products remain in the Apple retail stores. Very disappointed with the Google purchase. My wife and I liked the Nest thermostat enough to buy two more for family members. I installed all three with no problem. No technician needed. I was hoping Apple would acquire them as a jumpstart into home automation.
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Post by Odd-Lot Richard on Jan 13, 2014 14:45:31 GMT -8
So now Google will know what temperature you set?
I wonder if they will require you to connect your thermostats to Google+.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 14:45:51 GMT -8
Good move by google into home automation. Just rewards for Tony Fadell as well. Will be interesting to see if Nest products remain in the Apple retail stores. Very disappointed with the Google purchase. My wife and I liked the Nest thermostat enough to buy two more for family members. I installed all three with no problem. No technician needed. I was hoping Apple would acquire them as a jumpstart into home automation. Part of me says "man, thats expensive for something Apple could so easily now" and the other part says "I wish Apple had bought them, its so cool"...I guess I'm just waiting for Tim and his laser focused team to put out a new product, and not a big/smaller/thinner/faster version of something that's already out there.
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Post by artman1033 on Jan 13, 2014 14:45:57 GMT -8
Good move by google into home automation. Just rewards for Tony Fadell as well. Will be interesting to see if Nest products remain in the Apple retail stores. Very disappointed with the Google purchase. My wife and I liked the Nest thermostat enough to buy two more for family members. I installed all three with no problem. No technician needed. I was hoping Apple would acquire them as a jumpstart into home automation. talk about NEGATIVE SPIN: Nest gives Google some design know-how as well as a lot of home energy data. Google's tentacles are spreading into your home even more.www.zdnet.com/googles-reach-expands-into-your-home-more-via-3-2-billion-nest-acquisition-7000025109/
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Post by firestorm on Jan 13, 2014 14:50:09 GMT -8
Excellent comment by JDSoCal!
On the other hand, I would like to have seen Apple look to expand beyond its core handful of products. Google didn't just pay for a thermostat; it paid for the thinking that went into it and other products in Nest's pipeline. I suspect that Apple missed the boat again; is that why the stock price today drifted down so quickly from its high?
By the way, is it really necessary for ProBoards to question my spelling of "Google" in their spell check? It isn't 1995.
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Post by phoebear611 on Jan 13, 2014 14:52:19 GMT -8
I am also disappointed with their lack of acquisition of NEST...you can add that to the list along with Waze. And I have zero doubt that the high cost had everything to do with what NEST has in its pipeline versus the thermostat.
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Post by ericinaustin on Jan 13, 2014 15:12:22 GMT -8
I am also disappointed with their lack of acquisition of NEST...you can add that to the list along with Waze. And I have zero doubt that the high cost had everything to do with what NEST has in its pipeline versus the thermostat. I think there were some personality issues between Fadell and Ivy. Nest is nice but I don't think it will be hard to create a learning algorithm for a thermostat that won't violate the nest patents. Apple should buy Dyson.
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Post by firestorm on Jan 13, 2014 15:28:52 GMT -8
I am also disappointed with their lack of acquisition of NEST...you can add that to the list along with Waze. And I have zero doubt that the high cost had everything to do with what NEST has in its pipeline versus the thermostat. I think there were some personality issues between Fadell and Ivy. Nest is nice but I don't think it will be hard to create a learning algorithm for a thermostat that won't violate the nest patents. Apple should buy Dyson. That idea sucks!
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icam
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Post by icam on Jan 13, 2014 16:16:43 GMT -8
Thanks Google, you just saved me $800. Now that you own Nest, I'll be canceling my planned Nest purchases. Man do I hate Google.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Jan 13, 2014 16:31:47 GMT -8
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chinacat
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Post by chinacat on Jan 13, 2014 16:40:16 GMT -8
"Will Nest customer data be shared with Google? Our privacy policy clearly limits the use of customer information to providing and improving Nest’s products and services. We’ve always taken privacy seriously and this will not change." The bolded portion looks like carte blanche to me.
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Post by pauls on Jan 13, 2014 17:18:52 GMT -8
Yep. Me too. Great product, promising pipeline, Apple-quality design.
Agreed, the price seems absurd. But still, my 2nd favorite gadget brand in my home just went over to the dark side.
edit-- And also, my Nest just works, no matter how bad my home WIFI gets screwed up with other problems. Excellent UI and excellent reliability/connectivity.
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Post by Luckychoices on Jan 13, 2014 17:39:06 GMT -8
Yep. Me too. Great product, promising pipeline, Apple-quality design. Agreed, the price seems absurd. But still, my 2nd favorite gadget brand in my home just went over to the dark side. edit-- And also, my Nest just works, no matter how bad my home WIFI gets screwed up with other problems. Excellent UI and excellent reliability/connectivity. Agreed. We've had the same experience with our Nest thermostat.
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Post by artman1033 on Jan 13, 2014 18:09:30 GMT -8
hmmmm. ambiguous? Will Nest customer data be shared with Google? Our privacy policy clearly limits the use of customer information to providing and improving Nest’s products and services. We’ve always taken privacy seriously and this will not change.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 18:20:32 GMT -8
hmmmm. ambiguous? Will Nest customer data be shared with Google? Our privacy policy clearly limits the use of customer information to providing and improving Nest’s products and services. We’ve always taken privacy seriously and this will not change. Oh, that's such a farce: Google will simply change the TOS on Nest and know even more about you, including when you're home or away. I don't like the price, but as a defensive move, it might have made sense for Apple to acquire Nest for $3B. This should move Google up over $1,200 per share. F'ing ridiculous. The smoke alarm Nest is launching is far less compelling than Nest, and now that Google owns it, I most certainly won't be interested.
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Post by artman1033 on Jan 13, 2014 18:58:39 GMT -8
This decision wasn’t made on a whim – Google has been in the mix in some way or another for about three years of our almost four-year history. In fact, my first meeting with Google as a Nester was before we’d launched. At the 2011 TED Conference, Erik Charlton and I huddled in a corner with Sergey Brin to show him a video and an early model of the Nest Learning Thermostat – he instantly got what we were doing and so did the rest of the Google team when we showed them. In May 2011, Google Ventures led our Series B round of financing, and in 2012, Series C. Time and time again, Googlers have shown themselves to be incredibly like-minded, supportive and as big of dreamers as we are. I know that joining Google will be an easy transition because we’re partnering with a company that gets what we do and who we are at Nest –and wants us to stay that way. nest.com/blog/2014/01/13/welcome-home/
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Jan 13, 2014 19:18:08 GMT -8
Apple had plenty of chances to contend for Nest but apparently chose not to. And heck, Google was involved in funding Nest to begin with? Nest has two neat products, but how this helps Google with Android or Chrome, we'll see. Doubt we'll see a Nexus smartphone or tablet with built-in smoke/heat detector and home thermostat.
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Post by mstrmac on Jan 13, 2014 19:22:30 GMT -8
From recent nest reviews. While some have had great success with their gadget many don't. CONs -Reliability has been less than satisfactory. Instead of using good old reliable relays like most thermostats Nest decided to use what they call FETs (Field Effect Transistors) to control the equipment. They probably did this so they could give the thermostat its small form factor. Unfortunately, they aren't so reliable and tend to fail in the on position. The Y terminal (compressor) seems to fail pretty frequently causing A/C to run in the winter, sometimes at the same time as the heat. Besides the FET issue, software updates are pushed to the thermostat and the user has no choice on whether or not to accept them. Sometimes, they have bugs. The most recent one, 4.0, which the only purpose of was to add support for the Nest Protect, caused issues with some thermostats unable to power themselves. Some Nest owners found their thermostats unable to connect to wifi. Others found their pipes frozen as the Nest failed to turn on their equipment.
-It's a power stealing thermostat. One big issue when you upgrade to any wifi thermostat is how to power it. To understand this issue, I will give a brief history of thermostats. Back in the old days, we had simple mercury thermostats. No need to power them at all! But then along came digital programmable thermostats. They needed power for their displays, memory, and possibly a backlight. The most common HVAC system in US consists of a basic single stage gas furnace, matched with a single speed central air conditioner. To control this setup, you need four wires in your wall going to your thermostat. This worked fine for old mercury thermostats. To actually enable the thermostat to power itself, though, you need a 5th "common" wire. But, most people only had 4 wires going to their thermostat location. Programmable thermostat manufacturers came up with two solutions to this. The most common solution was to make the thermostats battery powered. These were simple enough to install and worked fine, the only con was that you had to replace the batteries periodically. Another solution was called a "power stealing" thermostat. This thermostat robbed enough current from the HVAC control wires to power itself, but NOT enough to trigger the HVAC system. On older HVAC systems that just ran off relays, this worked fine. Fast-forward to the age of wifi thermostats. How to power these things? AA Batteries wouldn't work, because the wifi drew too much power. What MOST wifi thermostat manufacturers decided to do was FORCE customers to run a common wire to power the thermostat. Nest was not satisfied with this as they wanted to make their thermostat easy to DIY install, so they decided to implement power stealing. Nowadays, though, most HVAC systems run off control boards, which are often sensitive to attempts by a thermostat to rob power for itself and may not let it at all. So sadly, the Nest actually works better with old standing pilot furnaces than newer efficient ones, even though it is a thermostat that promotes efficiency. Huh? Luckily, Nest gives you the option to connect a common wire if you have one, so you don't need to rely on the power stealing. Unfortunately, this issue has just led to too many problems and too much confusion by consumers who thought that Nest would work with their system and then found they needed a common wire.
-The algorithms they use to control multi-stage equipment are flawed. If you have a heat pump with backup electric resistance heat, their "Heat Pump Balance" algorithm will run backup aux heat way too much, using MORE energy than pretty much all competing thermostats. You can turn that off and set your own lockout temperature for aux heat, but the minimum is only 35 degrees. Most modern heat pump systems can hold their own own down into the 20s. Another issue with multistage systems is that if the Nest detects 1st stage is not keeping up, it will kick into 2nd stage. Fine, most thermostats do this. But then, instead of dropping back into 1st stage, it will stay in 2nd until it shuts off, decreasing comfort and efficiency. Finally, when recovering from a setback, it will ONLY use 1st stage, which takes way too long and makes it difficult to recover in time.
-Technical support isn't so great. Lately there have been ridiculously long hold times, and they don't seem to know what they're talking about. They are polite and professional, though, and I don't blame this problem on the agents, I blame it on the fact they aren't trained properly, which has to do with the next con...
-The overall attitude of the company. They do not communicate with their customers adequately to alert them of updates or problems. There is a community forum on their website that is quite helpful, and I highly recommend you visit it before purchasing. There used to be Nest moderators there, but they have all but abandoned it. There are many Nest users there though who put a lot of time into helping people solve problems and giving advice on how to best use Nest products. There are many complaints there, but they aren't "bashing" the products. Instead they give constructive criticism to Nest on where to improve, and ask for basic updates on what Nest is doing and whether they will fix these numerous issues. Unfortunately, instead of responding to the community members, they decided to make it un-indexable by search engines so prospective customers would NOT see this information. You can see for yourself. Go to [...] and view the source code of the page. You'll see <META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="NOINDEX, NOFOLLOW" >. You can click "recent discussions" to see what people have been posting and feel free to create an account and ask any questions you may have.
Conclusion: Would I recommend this product? Not currently I wouldn't. If you have a heat pump or multistage system, I absolutely would not recommend it. If you have your heart set on this thermostat and have a basic single stage system, be prepared that it may not work without a common wire, and be prepared for the possible reliability issues. Watch it closely after you install and be ready to return it within the 30 day period if necessary.
UPDATE 1/13/14: Nest has released a new version of their software, version 4.0.1, which claims to have all the new features of 4.0 but the performance of 3.5.3. The jury's still out on whether it does what they say it will: some people are reporting different issues they didn't have before, others say it fixed their issues. The good news, though, is that there is now a moderator on the Nest community, Brian, who is answering people's questions and helping them get the updates they need. While they still have a long way to go, it is good to see them moving in the right direction. Also, for those who don't know: Google owns Nest now. Make of that what you will, I won't comment on the privacy since everyone has a different opinion on that, but I am optimistic that the Google acquisition will accelerate the development of the product.
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Post by nagrani on Jan 13, 2014 19:30:40 GMT -8
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Post by lovemyipad on Jan 13, 2014 19:59:22 GMT -8
I enter this Board by the "New Posts" link. The stock ticker does not show up there. Can that be fixed? Ummmm...I think I might know how to do that. On iPad in bed right now....will try tomorrow from laptop...
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Post by Lstream on Jan 13, 2014 20:03:02 GMT -8
I enter this Board by the "New Posts" link. The stock ticker does not show up there. Can that be fixed? Ummmm...I think I might know how to do that. On iPad in bed right now....will try tomorrow from laptop... Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 20:29:06 GMT -8
From recent nest reviews. While some have had great success with their gadget many don't. CONs As I said before, many people complained about the early iPhones as well...that doesn't mean it was a bad device, just like it doesn't mean the Nest thermostats are either. Over 60% of Amazon reviews are 5 stars, so that says something
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JDSoCal
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Post by JDSoCal on Jan 13, 2014 20:29:17 GMT -8
On iPad in bed right now... That's what Mr. iPad said. Ba-dump-bump.
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Post by yellowhandman on Jan 13, 2014 20:29:23 GMT -8
I don't think Apple would need to buy Nest in order to enter the home automation sector. Ive and his team are more than capable of designing such devices themselves. If anything, a lot of the comments about Nest is that their designs are 'Apple-like'. If Apple hasn't done something already it's because they don't think it's a business worth doing.
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Post by zzmac on Jan 13, 2014 20:59:02 GMT -8
From recent nest reviews. While some have had great success with their gadget many don't. CONs As I said before, many people complained about the early iPhones as well...that doesn't mean it was a bad device, just like it doesn't mean the Nest thermostats are either. Over 60% of Amazon reviews are 5 stars, so that says something Nest's service is top notch. When I bought my Nest it wouldn't work due to my particular furnace setup. They paid for a technician to come to my house, spent an hour fixing things and got it working smoothly. No charge. Guess I just have to wait now for the iHeat before I switch.
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JDSoCal
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Post by JDSoCal on Jan 13, 2014 22:01:15 GMT -8
OK, I was obviously being hyperbolic about the Hal reference (but not about the creepiness of Google your home). But this tweet nails it:
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 22:08:08 GMT -8
As I said before, many people complained about the early iPhones as well...that doesn't mean it was a bad device, just like it doesn't mean the Nest thermostats are either. Over 60% of Amazon reviews are 5 stars, so that says something Nest's service is top notch. When I bought my Nest it wouldn't work due to my particular furnace setup. They paid for a technician to come to my house, spent an hour fixing things and got it working smoothly. No charge. Guess I just have to wait now for the iHeat before I switch. I was an early adopter and agree that my service experience was solid. However, I emailed Fadell earlier saying I'm ripping it off my wall the same day Google changes its TOS. Someone needs to write an expose' about the degree to which Google is mapping personal lives and should not be trusted. I mean, these guys are absolutely amoral. Gruber is absolutely correct about characterizing Google's purchase: It was about buying the ability to design, engineer and market consumer products. I've haven't yet read Jony Ive's book, but I suspect there wasn't room for both Fadell and Ive at Apple?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 22:31:12 GMT -8
Nest's service is top notch. When I bought my Nest it wouldn't work due to my particular furnace setup. They paid for a technician to come to my house, spent an hour fixing things and got it working smoothly. No charge. Guess I just have to wait now for the iHeat before I switch. I was an early adopter and agree that my service experience was solid. However, I emailed Fadell earlier saying I'm ripping it off my wall the same day Google changes its TOS. Someone needs to write an expose' about the degree to which Google is mapping personal lives and should not be trusted. I mean, these guys are absolutely amoral. Gruber is absolutely correct about characterizing Google's purchase: It was about buying the ability to design, engineer and market consumer products. I've haven't yet read Jony Ive's book, but I suspect there wasn't room for both Fadell and Ive at Apple? Only going from my memory from the jobs biography and the recent dogfight: Apple vs Google book, I think Fadell basically was done at apple after the choice was made to go with an OS X based iPhone over Fadells iPod OS based solution. EDIT: it was Scott Forstall's team which was pitted against Tony Fadells team - obviously losing to Forstall and the aftermath of that was enough to make him seek greener pastures.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 22:31:32 GMT -8
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JDSoCal
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Post by JDSoCal on Jan 13, 2014 23:21:24 GMT -8
From the lovely and talented Kelly Evans,
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