Since84
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To infinity and beyond!
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Post by Since84 on Jul 31, 2017 2:32:18 GMT -8
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CdnPhoto
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Member is Online
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Post by CdnPhoto on Jul 31, 2017 2:49:24 GMT -8
Good morning everyone. Have a great day. Let's make money. Welcome back. You were missed. Hope all is well.
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Post by appledoc on Jul 31, 2017 3:26:26 GMT -8
Tim Cook can say whatever he wants, but the removal of apps allowing the Chinese people to bypass their government's censorship goes to show the company is about money first and everything else second.
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Post by BillH on Jul 31, 2017 4:52:22 GMT -8
Tim Cook can say whatever he wants, but the removal of apps allowing the Chinese people to bypass their government's censorship goes to show the company is about money first and everything else second. This is really hazy ground for me. I sure as hell wouldn't want Toyota (as an example) refusing to sell automobiles because we require safety features they don't agree with. I think it's up to the Chinese people to decide whether or not they agree with their leaders and behave accordingly. Additionally, Tim's absolutely correct when he declared that it's difficult to effect change if you're not sitting at the table. Trade restrictions have a pretty poor history of being effective.
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ono
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compensation
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Post by ono on Jul 31, 2017 6:45:41 GMT -8
Horace Dediu on Apple pricing [iPhone] www.asymco.com/2017/07/31/how-much-will-the-new-iphone-cost/"The result is a remarkable consistency of average pricing which, coupled with a remarkable consistency of competitive positioning, coupled with a remarkable consistency of customer satisfaction and loyalty leads to a remarkable predictability of cash flows and ability to invest in new product creation. "Apple is thus quite easily understood as a remarkably consistent consumer products business. The only surprise that remains is how long it takes for that understanding to propagate." His graphs are interesting, and his post generate insightful reader's comments.
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Post by sponge on Jul 31, 2017 7:50:11 GMT -8
Tim Cook can say whatever he wants, but the removal of apps allowing the Chinese people to bypass their government's censorship goes to show the company is about money first and everything else second. Agreed. He made a huge deal about not letting FBI get into iPhone but has no trouble letting Chinese spy on their people. This tells me things in China are not as well as we all like.
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Post by mrentropy on Jul 31, 2017 8:16:37 GMT -8
Tim Cook can say whatever he wants, but the removal of apps allowing the Chinese people to bypass their government's censorship goes to show the company is about money first and everything else second. As much as I don't like the decision, Apple is absolutely correct in making it. VPNs are illegal in China. This is not a personal privacy issue for Apple, but about complying with the sovereign laws of a country. Apple isn't allowing access to anyone's information, don't conflate the two (you didn't say that, someone else did.) Apple only has two choices: comply or exit China. Will exiting China bring back VPNs or help Chinese citizens is any way? China's censorship laws are Draconian and I find them abhorrent , but that is an issue that the Chinese people need to resolve for themselves. Apple, as an American company especially, can't affect that change, definitely not from exiting the market.
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Post by carbonate24 on Jul 31, 2017 8:22:44 GMT -8
Tim Cook can say whatever he wants, but the removal of apps allowing the Chinese people to bypass their government's censorship goes to show the company is about money first and everything else second. Agreed. He made a huge deal about not letting FBI get into iPhone but has no trouble letting Chinese spy on their people. This tells me things in China are not as well as we all like. So what is it that Cook should do? Bail on China like Google did many years ago? And I doubt he has "no trouble letting the Chinese spy on their people". Cook can stand up to the FBI because people/companies have rights in this county to do so. Communist China doesn't operate the same way. Cook has to walk a fine line to run a business, maintain its values, and satisfy shareholders while limiting the amount he pisses off the Chinese government. I don't agree with China banning the VPN apps, and I trust that Apple did not just throw in the towel without some push back.
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Post by carbonate24 on Jul 31, 2017 8:25:09 GMT -8
Tim Cook can say whatever he wants, but the removal of apps allowing the Chinese people to bypass their government's censorship goes to show the company is about money first and everything else second. As much as I don't like the decision, Apple is absolutely correct in making it. VPNs are illegal in China. This is not a personal privacy issue for Apple, but about complying with the sovereign laws of a country. Apple isn't allowing access to anyone's information, don't conflate the two (you didn't say that, someone else did.) Apple only has two choices: comply or exit China. Will exiting China bring back VPNs or help Chinese citizens is any way? China's censorship laws are Draconian and I find them abhorrent , but that is an issue that the Chinese people need to resolve for themselves. Apple, as an American company especially, can't affect that change, definitely not from exiting the market. Agreed. And stated much more comprehensively than my response!
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,557
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Post by mark on Jul 31, 2017 9:20:30 GMT -8
Tim Cook can say whatever he wants, but the removal of apps allowing the Chinese people to bypass their government's censorship goes to show the company is about money first and everything else second. What would you prefer that Cook and Apple do instead? And how would that alternative help the Chinese people?
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Since84
Moderator
To infinity and beyond!
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Post by Since84 on Jul 31, 2017 10:29:19 GMT -8
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chinacat
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AAPL Long since 2006
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Post by chinacat on Jul 31, 2017 11:01:27 GMT -8
From an article on Yahoo Finance:
Privacy-minded Chinese iOS users aren’t completely out of luck, however. Golden Frog’s Yokubaitis said that Chinese users who set a billing address outside the country can still download its apps, while others can follow manual-setup instructions to configure iOS’s built-in VPN support to use its service.
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Post by rickag on Jul 31, 2017 12:18:41 GMT -8
From an article on Yahoo Finance: Privacy-minded Chinese iOS users aren’t completely out of luck, however. Golden Frog’s Yokubaitis said that Chinese users who set a billing address outside the country can still download its apps, while others can follow manual-setup instructions to configure iOS’s built-in VPN support to use its service. Did not know IOS had built in VPN. I am a geek failure.
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Post by joel90069 on Jul 31, 2017 12:54:26 GMT -8
IOS doesn't have a VPN built in. Just an easy way to access the one you choose. Kind of like how different email platforms are simple to install.
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Post by Luckychoices on Jul 31, 2017 12:55:50 GMT -8
Tim Cook can say whatever he wants, but the removal of apps allowing the Chinese people to bypass their government's censorship goes to show the company is about money first and everything else second. I get so weary of constant criticism of Tim Cook and, as soon as I read your comment this morning, I fully intended to respond. But, as it turned out, this was a great day for me to be very late responding to a comment with which I instantly disagreed. Instead, BillH, mrentropy, carbonate24 and mark all provided *excellent*, succinct responses to both *your* comment and the *pile-on* comment from sponge. I agree with everything they wrote and appreciate how well they stated it. This is really hazy ground for me. I sure as hell wouldn't want Toyota (as an example) refusing to sell automobiles because we require safety features they don't agree with. I think it's up to the Chinese people to decide whether or not they agree with their leaders and behave accordingly. Additionally, Tim's absolutely correct when he declared that it's difficult to effect change if you're not sitting at the table. Trade restrictions have a pretty poor history of being effective. As much as I don't like the decision, Apple is absolutely correct in making it. VPNs are illegal in China. This is not a personal privacy issue for Apple, but about complying with the sovereign laws of a country. Apple isn't allowing access to anyone's information, don't conflate the two (you didn't say that, someone else did.) Apple only has two choices: comply or exit China. Will exiting China bring back VPNs or help Chinese citizens is any way? China's censorship laws are Draconian and I find them abhorrent , but that is an issue that the Chinese people need to resolve for themselves. Apple, as an American company especially, can't affect that change, definitely not from exiting the market. Agreed. He made a huge deal about not letting FBI get into iPhone but has no trouble letting Chinese spy on their people. This tells me things in China are not as well as we all like. So what is it that Cook should do? Bail on China like Google did many years ago? And I doubt he has "no trouble letting the Chinese spy on their people". Cook can stand up to the FBI because people/companies have rights in this county to do so. Communist China doesn't operate the same way. Cook has to walk a fine line to run a business, maintain its values, and satisfy shareholders while limiting the amount he pisses off the Chinese government. I don't agree with China banning the VPN apps, and I trust that Apple did not just throw in the towel without some push back. Tim Cook can say whatever he wants, but the removal of apps allowing the Chinese people to bypass their government's censorship goes to show the company is about money first and everything else second. What would you prefer that Cook and Apple do instead? And how would that alternative help the Chinese people?
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Post by artman1033 on Jul 31, 2017 13:15:50 GMT -8
Tim Cook can say whatever he wants, but the removal of apps allowing the Chinese people to bypass their government's censorship goes to show the company is about money first and everything else second. has no alternative! assembles products in COMMUNIST CHINA. MUST follow COMMUNIST CHINA RULES. I have NO problem with 's response.
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Post by sponge on Jul 31, 2017 15:59:08 GMT -8
I think we are pointing out the hypocrisy in him. He gives up on privacy because money is at risk and manufacturing.
We all agree that as shareholders his actions are justified.
It is a moral equivalence argument and slippery slope that he is abiding by Chinese rules.
If the factories pollute or hire kids because it is OK in China, that does not make it the correct ethical action.
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Post by Luckychoices on Jul 31, 2017 16:55:14 GMT -8
I think we are pointing out the hypocrisy in him. He gives up on privacy because money is at risk and manufacturing. So far you're getting an F in reading comprehension. Please read mrentropy's comment about privacy again. Then read it a third time. It is a moral equivalence argument and slippery slope that he is abiding by Chinese rules. We all agree that as shareholders his actions are justified. It is a moral equivalence argument and slippery slope that he is abiding by Chinese rules.Show me where Apple, or any US company, has forced a *foreign* company to deviate from rules imposed by the country in which they do business. If the factories pollute or hire kids because it is OK in China, that does not make it the correct ethical action. What happens when Apple finds a child making your iPhone
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Post by appledoc on Aug 1, 2017 2:02:07 GMT -8
He doesn't have to force the Chinese government to do anything. If censorship and government snooping really mattered to him as much as he says it does, the company would have taken a different action.
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,557
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Post by mark on Aug 1, 2017 6:09:48 GMT -8
He doesn't have to force the Chinese government to do anything. If censorship and government snooping really mattered to him as much as he says it does, the company would have taken a different action. What action would you suggest they have taken?
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