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Post by phoebear611 on Apr 8, 2013 3:09:22 GMT -8
A new week ... maybe new hope. The music streaming business rumor still circulating this morning. Some saying it could be announced this week. Alas, no one knows - all guesses. Stock looks nice and green in PM - maybe we bounce - but question is: Is this a bounce that should be shorted in the short term or the real thing. Probably caution is the best road to travel to see if we reclaim some of the moving averages with any conviction. Some sites - like Avi's - still suggesting that sub $400 is a very real possibility before anyone decides to back-up the truck. At that point the valuations will look borderline obscene but I thought that at so many levels. So this time - will let the market give me the price to react to. I'll be waiting and watching.
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Post by appledoc on Apr 8, 2013 4:01:32 GMT -8
No. Up 1% in pre-market? The future is bright, the bottom is in, everything is okay. Anyone questioning my thought that there is still significant downside risk (risk not certainty) need only to look at what happened at every single significant moving average and x00 price level since September. The bulls haven't shown up in more than half a year now.
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Post by podboy on Apr 8, 2013 6:08:05 GMT -8
This is my first year doing taxes with a loss of capital gains. I read somewhere that you can only claim $3K in capital gains losses or something. I have about $10K in realized losses. I was doing my taxes through turbo tax. Is there some other form that I have to fill out to claim larger losses or is $3K the max?
Thanks. AAPL all time high!
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Post by cbingle on Apr 8, 2013 6:18:25 GMT -8
$3k be it. Carry rest forward.
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Post by podboy on Apr 8, 2013 6:24:17 GMT -8
Thanks Bingle. Kinda sucks, if you make $1M oh you have to pay taxes on all of it. If you lose $1M "sorry you can only claim $3K for 4 years" lol. Not quite fair, but there are a lot of things that are unfair anymore.
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Post by lance on Apr 8, 2013 6:33:00 GMT -8
I read an article which stated as of 2012 Apple had a total of 176billion in Assets as of the end of 2012 which including buildings, cash, short term investments, long term investments etc. I believe that does not include patents which lets conservatively say are worth 25 billion as of right now considering nortels was worth 4.5billion. I think that is a very conservative assessment. So not even considering future sales which obviously will occur. Apple is bare bones worth 200+billion. Apples current market cap is 400billion give or take a few billion depending on the day. So the market is basically saying Apple's future is worth 200billion give or take a few billion. Even myself who is hasn't liked the direction the company has taken in the iPhone game without a large screen and taking too long to update thinks that is one of the most outrageous valuations. If apple makes 40billion in profits for next 5 years ie doesn't grow at all just hangs on. It will be worth itself cash, buildings and patents. May be I am missing something but it appears the market is pricing in a severe decline in earnings. Now iPhone represents more than 1/2 of the business so if Apple drops the ball in that sector we could see Apples earnings take some more pain, but I find it hard pressed that it would represent the decline estimated by its current valuation.
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Post by applemuncher on Apr 8, 2013 6:36:52 GMT -8
It does suck. "If your capital losses exceed your capital gains, the amount of the excess loss that can be claimed is the lesser of $3,000, ($1,500 if you are married filing separately) or your total net loss as shown on line 16 of the Form 1040, Schedule D (PDF). If your net capital loss is more than this limit, you can carry the loss forward to later years. You may use the Capital Loss Carryover Worksheet found in either Publication 550, Investment Income and Expenses, or the Form 1040, Schedule D Instructions (PDF), Capital Gains and Losses, to figure the amount eligible to be carried forward."
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Post by seabiscuit on Apr 8, 2013 6:37:21 GMT -8
Thanks Bingle. Kinda sucks, if you make $1M oh you have to pay taxes on all of it. If you lose $1M "sorry you can only claim $3K for 4 years" lol. Not quite fair, but there are a lot of things that are unfair anymore. Capital loss can be carried forward indefinitly - not just 4 years.
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Post by appledoc on Apr 8, 2013 6:40:14 GMT -8
The concerns over the future of the iPhone/smartphone are legit. Technology turns on a dime these days. I'm just hoping that Apple gets it right with whatever is next. I have more faith in them coming up with the next big thing than any other tech company. But you can't deny that it's a gamble.
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Post by seabiscuit on Apr 8, 2013 6:40:51 GMT -8
I read an article which stated as of 2012 Apple had a total of 176billion in Assets as of the end of 2012 which including buildings, cash, short term investments, long term investments etc. I believe that does not include patents which lets conservatively say are worth 25 billion as of right now considering nortels was worth 4.5billion. I think that is a very conservative assessment. So not even considering future sales which obviously will occur. Apple is bare bones worth 200+billion. Apples current market cap is 400billion give or take a few billion depending on the day. So the market is basically saying Apple's future is worth 200billion give or take a few billion. Even myself who is hasn't liked the direction the company has taken in the iPhone game without a large screen and taking too long to update thinks that is one of the most outrageous valuations. If apple makes 40billion in profits for next 5 years ie doesn't grow at all just hangs on. It will be worth itself cash, buildings and patents. May be I am missing something but it appears the market is pricing in a severe decline in earnings. Now iPhone represents more than 1/2 of the business so if Apple drops the ball in that sector we could see Apples earnings take some more pain, but I find it hard pressed that it would represent the decline estimated by its current valuation. If your doing this type of analysis you should also factor in that the Apple brand name is worth mucho dollars. I read the brand name alone is worth about $100 billion.
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Post by appledoc on Apr 8, 2013 6:40:58 GMT -8
Thanks Bingle. Kinda sucks, if you make $1M oh you have to pay taxes on all of it. If you lose $1M "sorry you can only claim $3K for 4 years" lol. Not quite fair, but there are a lot of things that are unfair anymore. Capital loss can be carried forward indefinitly - not just 4 years. Yes. I'm still carrying losses from 2007/2008.
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Post by sponge on Apr 8, 2013 7:07:24 GMT -8
A good morning to say the least. Volume is low, we are green, GOOG is down 12, and the market is down.
Low volume means no one wants to step up to buy but also no one is ready to sell anymore. A true sign of the bottom.
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Post by appledoc on Apr 8, 2013 7:39:04 GMT -8
Low volume means no one wants to step up to buy but also no one is ready to sell anymore. A true sign of the bottom. No. Consolidation.
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Post by seabiscuit on Apr 8, 2013 7:42:39 GMT -8
It seems like there is an article with an opinion coming out on the web every few minutes.
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Post by artman1033 on Apr 8, 2013 8:12:24 GMT -8
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Post by terps530 on Apr 8, 2013 8:28:24 GMT -8
A good morning to say the least. Volume is low, we are green, GOOG is down 12, and the market is down. some days it seems this way, but there are just as many days when the inverse phenomena does not occur, yet we never mention it (i'm guilty of this also) but anyway i know it's a small sample, but here is the past 1 month of AAPL VS GOOG VS SP500 that i just decided to put together. I think going 3 months back would provide more of the inverse favor towards aapl, but i didnt have the time do do that right now. i just did green vs red. i know some charts could show different based on open vs close, but this is close enough.
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Post by rickag on Apr 8, 2013 8:28:24 GMT -8
Well now we know why AAPL battered ,bruised and heading down today.
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Post by lance on Apr 8, 2013 9:00:45 GMT -8
I thought AAPL has had long downtrend. BIDU (Baidu) has been hit hard for 2 straight years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 9:08:49 GMT -8
This is my first year doing taxes with a loss of capital gains. I read somewhere that you can only claim $3K in capital gains losses or something. I have about $10K in realized losses. I was doing my taxes through turbo tax. Is there some other form that I have to fill out to claim larger losses or is $3K the max? Thanks. AAPL all time high! That's in the first year. In the year after that you can take as much of the loss as you need.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 9:12:30 GMT -8
It seems like there is an article with an opinion coming out on the web every few minutes. Seeking Alpha, haven for every creative writer known to mankind trying to make a name for themselves. They can write but their research abilities, followed closely by strength of logic, is lacking to the point of being near non-existent.
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Post by podboy on Apr 8, 2013 9:13:50 GMT -8
Thanks Gregg! So I won't have to claim $3K per year for the rest of my life?? LOL. I've lost a lot of money (paper losses so far).
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Post by rickag on Apr 8, 2013 9:19:50 GMT -8
Low volume means no one wants to step up to buy but also no one is ready to sell anymore. A true sign of the bottom. No. Consolidation. Seems to be consolidation from end of January. I'm tired of consolidation.
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chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,438
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Post by chinacat on Apr 8, 2013 9:21:51 GMT -8
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Post by djo711 on Apr 8, 2013 9:33:33 GMT -8
Thanks Gregg! So I won't have to claim $3K per year for the rest of my life?? LOL. I've lost a lot of money (paper losses so far). That is incorrect. You can use realized losses to offset realized gains dollar for dollar. The $3,000 annual limit is for use of the losses against your taxable income. For example: Let's say in 2012 you ended the year with $30,000 in net realized investment losses. You can use $3,000 of those losses to reduce your 2012 taxable income figure. That leaves you with $27,000 in losses to carry forward into future years. Now assume that you end 2013 with $20,000 in realized gains. You can use your carry-forward losses to completely offset those gains. Leaving you with $7,000 in losses left. You can use another $3,000 to reduce your taxable income figure. That leaves you with $4,000 in loss carry-fowards to carry into your 2014 tax situation... Hope that helps.
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Post by ibuyer on Apr 8, 2013 9:37:30 GMT -8
This is my first year doing taxes with a loss of capital gains. I read somewhere that you can only claim $3K in capital gains losses or something. I have about $10K in realized losses. I was doing my taxes through turbo tax. Is there some other form that I have to fill out to claim larger losses or is $3K the max? Thanks. AAPL all time high! That's in the first year. In the year after that you can take as much of the loss as you need. "Wrong end of a long snorkel" as gt says in his bio. Should not be right. Pls double check.
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Post by prazan on Apr 8, 2013 9:38:06 GMT -8
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Post by mace on Apr 8, 2013 9:42:38 GMT -8
Thanks Bingle. Kinda sucks, if you make $1M oh you have to pay taxes on all of it. If you lose $1M "sorry you can only claim $3K for 4 years" lol. Not quite fair, but there are a lot of things that are unfair anymore. Many nations do away with capital gains because they want to encourage investing. Also, it is administratively tedious to track losses since most traders lose monies. Nothing is truly fair in this world. For example, why are you so lucky to be born in USA, better educated, and more good looking than me?
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Post by mace on Apr 8, 2013 9:47:11 GMT -8
I read an article which stated as of 2012 Apple had a total of 176billion in Assets as of the end of 2012 which including buildings, cash, short term investments, long term investments etc. I believe that does not include patents which lets conservatively say are worth 25 billion as of right now considering nortels was worth 4.5billion. I think that is a very conservative assessment. So not even considering future sales which obviously will occur. Apple is bare bones worth 200+billion. Apples current market cap is 400billion give or take a few billion depending on the day. So the market is basically saying Apple's future is worth 200billion give or take a few billion. Even myself who is hasn't liked the direction the company has taken in the iPhone game without a large screen and taking too long to update thinks that is one of the most outrageous valuations. If apple makes 40billion in profits for next 5 years ie doesn't grow at all just hangs on. It will be worth itself cash, buildings and patents. May be I am missing something but it appears the market is pricing in a severe decline in earnings. Now iPhone represents more than 1/2 of the business so if Apple drops the ball in that sector we could see Apples earnings take some more pain, but I find it hard pressed that it would represent the decline estimated by its current valuation. Thanks for bringing up the patent portfolio - totally forgotten about it. Market can stay irrational than you can stay solvent. The best course of action is to stay out of margin and options unless you're very savvy and nimble. Is not the time to be aggressive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 9:47:18 GMT -8
The concerns over the future of the iPhone/smartphone are legit. Technology turns on a dime these days. I'm just hoping that Apple gets it right with whatever is next. I have more faith in them coming up with the next big thing than any other tech company. But you can't deny that it's a gamble. Unlike the mindset of many (Apple is doomed because no new products in last year), I'm of a mind that the longer Apple delays any new product, the more likely Apple will get it right. Technology may turn on a dime (not really true), but the winner isn't determined until the market says so. I am NOT concerned about another manufacturer getting there first (whatever the next "it" is). The MP3 market was several years old before the iPod. The handset market was 20 years old before the iPhone, and the tablet market was several years old before the iPad. Apple's strength isn't in being first, its in being best. I can wait for the best.
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Post by artman1033 on Apr 8, 2013 9:52:49 GMT -8
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