Mav
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Posts: 10,784
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Post by Mav on Feb 9, 2015 14:54:52 GMT -8
Why doesn't she even visit any longer? It's Mav's fault. Shot through the heart And I'm to blame I give AFB2 A BAD NAME
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Post by Red Shirted Ensign on Feb 9, 2015 14:57:34 GMT -8
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bud777
fire starter
Posts: 1,353
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Post by bud777 on Feb 9, 2015 16:12:29 GMT -8
Here's an opportunity that I have been waiting for someone to exploit. I hope it is Apple: Most cars sold today have a display (usually 7") that is used for the infotainment system and navigation. All cars since 1996 have a separate multi-computer system that monitors the engine, brakes, cooling systems,even the tires. This system is called On-Board Diagnostics or ODB. It is very sophisticated but only accessed through ODB readers. You can buy a reader, or go to the dealer, or even get it read at AutoZone when the "check engine" light comes on. So my bright idea, which no doubt has already been done, is to give the Infotainment computer and display access to the ODB data and allow apps to do useful things with this data. For example, you are driving and the "check engine" indicator comes on. You say "Hey Siri, what's wrong with the car?" Siri says or displays, "It appears that one of the oxygen sensors is not working" You say, "Is that serious? (or Sirious, if you just cannot stop yourself). Siri or the display explains what the oxygen sensor is, where it is located and asks if you would like more information. You say yes, so Siri tells you to pull over, she ain't saying shit while you are driving. You pull over and Siri shows you everything you ever wanted to know about oxygen sensors and asks you if you want to fix it yourself or schedule an appointment to have it done. If you say DIY, she tells you where to get the parts, what tools you will need and what it will cost. When you are ready, you can access step by step directions. If you just want it fixed, she gets several local estimates. When you select one, she schedules the appointment for you. It is all just sitting there waiting for some bright young programmer to put the pieces together. I hope she does it soon
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Post by artman1033 on Feb 9, 2015 16:37:46 GMT -8
FDA Loosens Regulation
Last week, the Food and Drug Administration announced that it would allow medical device data systems to innovate and change without much regulatory interference, something that will allow developers more space to create.
Biometric measurement apps promise to make health tracking easier and more streamlined, but strict rules governing how those apps work has made innovation in that space difficult.
Innovation In Data Recording
The new policy allows apps to be developed without FDA regulation if their failure to perform wouldn’t create a serious health risk to the user.
In that way, software that diagnoses or treats a disease will still face scrutiny from the FDA, but those that simply record, store and display data will be free expand and change as developers see fit. finance.yahoo.com/news/good-news-apple-watch-fda-155128458.html
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Post by phoebear611 on Feb 9, 2015 16:37:43 GMT -8
Here's an opportunity that I have been waiting for someone to exploit. I hope it is Apple: Most cars sold today have a display (usually 7") that is used for the infotainment system and navigation. All cars since 1996 have a separate multi-computer system that monitors the engine, brakes, cooling systems,even the tires. This system is called On-Board Diagnostics or ODB. It is very sophisticated but only accessed through ODB readers. You can buy a reader, or go to the dealer, or even get it read at AutoZone when the "check engine" light comes on. So my bright idea, which no doubt has already been done, is to give the Infotainment computer and display access to the ODB data and allow apps to do useful things with this data. For example, you are driving and the "check engine" indicator comes on. You say "Hey Siri, what's wrong with the car?" Siri says or displays, "It appears that one of the oxygen sensors is not working" You say, "Is that serious? (or Sirious, if you just cannot stop yourself). Siri or the display explains what the oxygen sensor is, where it is located and asks if you would like more information. You say yes, so Siri tells you to pull over, she ain't saying shit while you are driving. You pull over and Siri shows you everything you ever wanted to know about oxygen sensors and asks you if you want to fix it yourself or schedule an appointment to have it done. If you say DIY, she tells you where to get the parts, what tools you will need and what it will cost. When you are ready, you can access step by step directions. If you just want it fixed, she gets several local estimates. When you select one, she schedules the appointment for you. It is all just sitting there waiting for some bright young programmer to put the pieces together. I hope she does it soon Every woman I know would buy a car with this. I trust NO mechanic or dealership. You go in for one thing and they find 20 other things wrong. My son drives a 2007 Jeep - and every time we go to the dealership for a service we get milked. My husband and I have huge fights about it. I keep telling him they see a huge "sucker" sign when he walks in. The thing is - how do we know if they are being truthful or lying? It's always some obscure bullshit thing that you worry about not replacing and then your child has an accident and it had to do with THAT OBSURE THING! Anything diagnostic that Apple could help provide for a car would be HUGE! Think of parents everywhere ... it's a no brainer! Hope they're headed in that direction! (pun intended!)
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,186
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Post by JDSoCal on Feb 9, 2015 19:18:10 GMT -8
Such a thing is already available, but unfortunately, it's pretty much only with aftermarket Android head units. The problem is, head units that ship with cars OEM have to worry about the whole NTSB safety vetting process. Aftermarkets have no such issues. This is a problem with CarPlay, in that I doubt any OEM product can have as many features as an aftermarket. Maybe aftermarket CarPlay units will be better, but so far, the apps seem a little sparse compared to Android. The head unit I am considering for the Vette is this: Android 4.4 Double 2Din Car GPS Navi DVD Player Wifi 3G Bluetooth In-Dash RadioYou can see it can use the Torque app, which dumps ODB data. There are other similar apps. The new Dodge Hellcat has some really cool data reporting: I have a HUD projector on my windshield (OEM option), and I have an aftermarket unit called the DashLogic that connects to the ODB port and displays data via the HUD and the DIC. I have another unit that displays radar detector info on the HUD. Keep in mind most car problems go beyond mere (current) ODB data. A bad water pump or alternator or leaky gasket isn't likely to be reported by gauges. Maybe someday...
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,186
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Post by JDSoCal on Feb 9, 2015 22:12:02 GMT -8
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Post by Lstream on Feb 10, 2015 0:24:19 GMT -8
Agree with JD on OBD data. I am pretty involved with the maintenance on my two vehicles, and I can't really recall a single repair where the OBD data played an exclusive role. It typically provides confirmation or supplemental data. Many repairs I have seen were not reported by OBD. So I think this idea of OBD-driven repair that protects from mechanic up selling and abuse, would only catch a sliver of the reasons why cars end up being repaired.
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Post by rezonate on Feb 10, 2015 0:40:59 GMT -8
The whole car integration piece is part of why (I continue to think) Apple made a huge push to build local stores. Devices are fine, and a local Genius Bar is nice, but you can reliably purchase and install portable tech by yourself, at home. Not so with a car stereo. Techies and engineers like us maybe, but Joe and Jane Sixpack? No way. A better way is roll up for your genius appointment, drop down keys and a credit card, go window shopping with a latte, and return to find your ride upgraded with the latest Car Play unit. Maybe even vacuumed, washed & waxed. Hey, I can dream, right?
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bud777
fire starter
Posts: 1,353
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Post by bud777 on Feb 10, 2015 1:04:29 GMT -8
This will probably not get read because it is so late, but take a look at www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codesThere are thousands of codes that indicate specific problems. I wasn't suggesting something that gives you a heads up display of your torque curve in real-time, or a graph of rpm or vacuum pressure. I am talking about taking the information that is there and using it as a starting point to empower the driver so he/she has more real knowledge about the state of the car. I realize that there are problems that do not involve a computer, but something like this could provide a reason for increased monitoring. In the example of an alternator, I certainly think information on the charging rate over time would be helpful. Have you ever tried to diagnose a bad condenser or coil? I will guarantee it will drive you nuts and that you will chase it as a fuel problem. I spent $1000 to have three different dealers and independents track down an ECU problem on a pre ODB Toyota. They were convinced it was a fuel pump problem. The trouble codes would have pointed to the ECU immediately Most dealers and mechanics now just follow the trouble codes and replace the part associated with the code. I am not ready to give up on this
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Post by Lstream on Feb 10, 2015 1:35:12 GMT -8
Cars throw OBD codes all the time without needing a trip to the garage. This idea would have people showing up for repairs when they don't need to and costing themselves money. And when the failure is legit, the mechanic is looking at those codes anyway, so the fact that the customer saw them first, provides no real information that the mechanic does not have anyway. I am not seeing how having a bunch of drivers attempting to analyze and report cryptic codes that most people can't understand delivers much real value. I could see it generating a lot of noise.
Everyone's experience is different I guess. I have not experienced parts being replaced based entirely on codes. I have sometimes seen an exercise to understand for sure what lead to the code, which may or may not lead to that part being changed. That ECU problem would be handled differently in a post OBD vehicle, whether the driver knew about the code or not.
I also don't think that a significant percentage of drivers will ever attempt their own repair based upon OBD- driven guidance. Can you imagine the warranty nightmares? Today's vehicles are just too complex for anyone but the trained professional to touch. So I think we end up with this system reporting codes that the mechanic has anyway. Maybe there would be value in some kind of connection between the car and the dealer where this stuff is reported proactively, so that the dealer has advance knowledge of something about to go wrong. Although that will generate more service revenue for the dealer, not less.
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bud777
fire starter
Posts: 1,353
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Post by bud777 on Feb 10, 2015 3:13:17 GMT -8
Cars throw OBD codes all the time without needing a trip to the garage. This idea would have people showing up for repairs when they don't need to and costing themselves money. And when the failure is legit, the mechanic is looking at those codes anyway, so the fact that the customer saw them first, provides no real information that the mechanic does not have anyway. I am not seeing how having a bunch of drivers attempting to analyze and report cryptic codes that most people can't understand delivers much real value. I could see it generating a lot of noise. Everyone's experience is different I guess. I have not experienced parts being replaced based entirely on codes. I have sometimes seen an exercise to understand for sure what lead to the code, which may or may not lead to that part being changed. That ECU problem would be handled differently in a post OBD vehicle, whether the driver knew about the code or not. I also don't think that a significant percentage of drivers will ever attempt their own repair based upon OBD- driven guidance. Can you imagine the warranty nightmares? Today's vehicles are just too complex for anyone but the trained professional to touch. So I think we end up with this system reporting codes that the mechanic has anyway. Maybe there would be value in some kind of connection between the car and the dealer where this stuff is reported proactively, so that the dealer has advance knowledge of something about to go wrong. Although that will generate more service revenue for the dealer, not less. I am not doing a very good job of explaining this, I guess. Take the case that you cite, where a code comes up that doesn't require a trip to the garage. One easy example is the fuel system. In cars as they are today, you can fail to tighten a glass cap and get a check engine light. Some states don't let you pump your own gas, so this can happen regardless of how careful you are. When the light comes on now all you see is check engine. you don't know if it is the gas cap or something serious. Telling you that it is code PL023 doesn't mean anything. But imagine that you get a message on that big screen that explains what the code means and tells you the likely causes. It even suggests that you make sure the gas cap is tight. The opportunity lies in using the computer to educate and guide the owner. It would not create any more trips to the dealer than the check engine light does now. In the case I just used, it would prevent the trip. Wouldn't you rather go to the dealer knowing that your number 3 injector was bad ahead of time? Wouldn't you like to be able to comparison shop for the repairs based on already knowing what the problem was? You are probably right that most drivers would not repair their own cars but I think that there is an opportunity to de-mystify automobile ownership. You said "I am not seeing how having a bunch of drivers attempting to analyze and report cryptic codes that most people can't understand delivers much real value" That is my point. They would not have to deal with cryptic codes, the software would do that. That's the whole idea.
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Post by incorrigible on Feb 10, 2015 7:13:35 GMT -8
One easy example is the fuel system. In cars as they are today, you can fail to tighten a glass cap and get a check engine light. Some states don't let you pump your own gas, so this can happen regardless of how careful you are. When the light comes on now all you see is check engine. you don't know if it is the gas cap or something serious. Telling you that it is code PL023 doesn't mean anything. But imagine that you get a message on that big screen that explains what the code means and tells you the likely causes. It even suggests that you make sure the gas cap is tight. My daughter's 2015 Honda Civic does this exact thing. Display said to check the gas cap which she did. Code went away next day.
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Post by Lstream on Feb 10, 2015 7:19:22 GMT -8
Yes, I would prefer to have the OBD codes more accessible. And it would be nice to see some integration into a console. But I don't see this extending much beyond informational. I doubt that any garage is going to quote a repair based upon a driver sending them OBD data, no matter how it is packaged up. An OBD code is just part of the overall repair picture. So, I don't think comparison shopping flies either, especially during the warranty period when you better make sure your repairs are performed by an authorized dealer. And I don't think this capability helps with Phoebe's issue of mechanics up-charging and messing up.
I see many more barriers to turn this into something truly useful, that meets the vision you paint, but I don't want to hijack the discussion entirely with skeptical thoughts.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,186
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Post by JDSoCal on Feb 10, 2015 9:54:03 GMT -8
Not a bad idea Bud, it's just going to take some time for the technology to catch up. And company like Apple to tell the car manufacturers to add a more diagnostic sensors all over the car in a standardized format, that BTW can be programmed in Swift and read by CarPlay and diagnosed and transferred via an iPhone remotely to your mechanic's iPad.
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