Since84
Moderator
To infinity and beyond!
Posts: 3,933
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Post by Since84 on Feb 2, 2016 3:32:13 GMT -8
Good morning everyone. Shanghai is nicely GREEN while the rest of the world is RED. Just horrible the way the China is going. Of course, AAPL is RED as well, trading at $95.25 -1.18 (-1.22%). Just to prick that blister, GOOG is trading at $790.27 +38.27 (5.09%). In the news: Of course many headlines on Alphabet passing Apple as the worlds most valuable company. Stories at CNBC, Reuters, Patently Apple and others. That's about it. Have a great day. Let's make money.
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Post by phoebear611 on Feb 2, 2016 5:06:28 GMT -8
I have bombarded CNBC with Tweets and emails WRT their lack of mentioning the phrase "the law of large numbers" when it comes to Google and subsequently, find their reporting (and I use the term loosely) quite immensely biased as such. That being said, here is where I think Google has done a better job than Apple: they have understood what it means to be a public company and have to deal with investors, Wall Street and the like. Google went out and hired Ruth Porat as their CFO. Ever since she has been at the company they have gotten nothing but praise and their stock has done very well. She "gets it". She speaks Wall Street and investor language. She knew their problem was to define their mission statement and lay out the numbers in a specific format. She understands how to make the public see and understand what a great company Google is and why "in the way investors and WS are accustomed to." Apple has not brought anyone on board in some capacity to help them. In my opinion they have a perception problem. How can it be so clear to us and perhaps some others what an incredible company this is - what an unbelievable balance sheet they have - how innovative they are and yet they get crapped on each and every time. Maybe it is not the Company that needs to change but the perception of the Company ... and maybe hiring someone who speaks the WS language is a road they can embark on. After all, they have the money for big hires and should be able to attract talent in ANY area they choose. So instead of us harping on what Apple is doing or not doing or jumping up and down when the stock and the Company are completely decoupled - we should be thinking more along the terms I've suggested. Just my two cents here in the Year of the Monkey.
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Post by dreamRaj on Feb 2, 2016 5:08:31 GMT -8
Good morning, Since84. Thanks, as always, for the morning post Btw, one would think that most of the weak hands must've been shaken off by now. But even at 95, it doesn't seem like full confidence has kicked in yet that this could be the bottom and the only way to go now is up.
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Post by phoebear611 on Feb 2, 2016 6:07:09 GMT -8
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Post by tuffett on Feb 2, 2016 6:49:33 GMT -8
Good morning, Since84. Thanks, as always, for the morning post Btw, one would think that most of the weak hands must've been shaken off by now. But even at 95, it doesn't seem like full confidence has kicked in yet that this could be the bottom and the only way to go now is up. There are no positive catalysts ahead until iPhone 7, and that's going to be a massive FUD Storm unlike we've ever seen before if the headphone jack is indeed removed. It's likely going to be a year of negative growth. No reason for new buyers to get into the stock right now. Yes it's undervalued but when has it not been? My opinion - there is never only one way to go, and that kind of thinking is dangerous. Many of us were thinking the same at $120, $110, $100 etc. Definite downside potential especially given the current shaky market and all the macro concerns.
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Post by artman1033 on Feb 2, 2016 7:24:40 GMT -8
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Since84
Moderator
To infinity and beyond!
Posts: 3,933
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Post by Since84 on Feb 2, 2016 12:00:00 GMT -8
Quiet here today.
Guess everyone is too busy watching GOOG.
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Since84
Moderator
To infinity and beyond!
Posts: 3,933
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Post by Since84 on Feb 2, 2016 12:06:14 GMT -8
From CNBC Is Alphabet cursed now that it is No. 1? And you get to vote on how long GOOG will wear the crown. Discussion of 'law of large numbers'? No. Discussion of concentration in one product? No. Though it does mention how diverse the product line is. I give up
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,552
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Post by mark on Feb 2, 2016 14:09:21 GMT -8
The article is silly. Apple bought its own shares at ~$125 which are now worth ~$95. Many were screaming for Apple to buy Netflix. Had they bought Netflix at ~$125, the result would be similar since the market is valuing it at ~$92 now. And nobody knows if the market would value Netflix even lower if it were folded into Apple. Finally, the article is also silly because Apple did indeed greatly reduce the overall outstanding share count over the last few years. And it's also silly because Apple still has a ton of cash remaining to take advantage of rare opportunities if they come along.
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Post by artman1033 on Feb 2, 2016 14:55:51 GMT -8
From CNBC Is Alphabet cursed now that it is No. 1? And you get to vote on how long GOOG will wear the crown. Discussion of 'law of large numbers'? No. Discussion of concentration in one product? No. Though it does mention how diverse the product line is. I give up someday they will talk about ad blocking software...
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Post by Red Shirted Ensign on Feb 2, 2016 15:20:02 GMT -8
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Post by dreamRaj on Feb 2, 2016 15:53:45 GMT -8
Two companies ripe for sale soon are TWTR and YHOO. Wonder how Apple could make use of these if it gets to buy them at bargain-basememt prices.
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Post by galleybob on Feb 2, 2016 16:03:12 GMT -8
The article is silly. Apple bought its own shares at ~$125 which are now worth ~$95. Many were screaming for Apple to buy Netflix. Had they bought Netflix at ~$125, the result would be similar since the market is valuing it at ~$92 now. And nobody knows if the market would value Netflix even lower if it were folded into Apple. Finally, the article is also silly because Apple did indeed greatly reduce the overall outstanding share count over the last few years. And it's also silly because Apple still has a ton of cash remaining to take advantage of rare opportunities if they come along. Mark, can you explain how buying at $125 and having the shares drop to $95 is not a waste of shareholder value. I see the same problem if they buy a massive amount at $95.
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Post by rickag on Feb 2, 2016 16:18:54 GMT -8
The article is silly. Apple bought its own shares at ~$125 which are now worth ~$95. Many were screaming for Apple to buy Netflix. Had they bought Netflix at ~$125, the result would be similar since the market is valuing it at ~$92 now. And nobody knows if the market would value Netflix even lower if it were folded into Apple. Finally, the article is also silly because Apple did indeed greatly reduce the overall outstanding share count over the last few years. And it's also silly because Apple still has a ton of cash remaining to take advantage of rare opportunities if they come along. He is preying on people like me that are indeed concerned that Apple, who should know that FQ2 16 guidance would be down, yet still bought $6 billion in shares. But according to the 10K the $124 number is for the accelerated buybacks, but their latest open market purchases I think were @ $115, and a lot more shares. I am pro share repurchases, but believe they could do better. here is a pict of the latest 10K I still think Apple should dump Goldman Sachs and find another firm.
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Post by phoebear611 on Feb 2, 2016 16:22:58 GMT -8
I believe we go XD on Thursday, no?
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Post by macwire on Feb 2, 2016 16:29:36 GMT -8
I wonder how mad this board will be when FB passes AAPL?
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Post by incorrigible on Feb 2, 2016 17:48:33 GMT -8
I believe we go XD on Thursday, no? Yes. 2/4
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Post by Apple II+ on Feb 2, 2016 18:03:48 GMT -8
can you explain how buying at $125 and having the shares drop to $95 is not a waste of shareholder value. I see the same problem if they buy a massive amount at $95. Hindsight is 20/20
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Post by rickag on Feb 2, 2016 18:12:20 GMT -8
I wonder how mad this board will be when FB passes AAPL? I won't be mad. More puzzled than anything.
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Post by galleybob on Feb 2, 2016 18:12:52 GMT -8
can you explain how buying at $125 and having the shares drop to $95 is not a waste of shareholder value. I see the same problem if they buy a massive amount at $95. Hindsight is 20/20 I just never saw the point of the buybacks and this confirms it for me. Paying out much higher dividends would have made better use of the cash in my opinion.
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Post by artman1033 on Feb 2, 2016 18:28:06 GMT -8
WHOA! The Apple Store might be losing its place as the king of the American mall, at least according to a mall operator whose properties — including many of the country’s top shopping destinations — house 46 of Apple’s 268 U.S. stores. www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/apple-stores-are-no-longer-the-star-of-the-american-mall#.hcbWjNVrkFrom the GGP earnings call. GGP owns shopping centers. Passing the portfolio by quality grade, we experienced sales increases throughout the country. Nearly every major retail category was up with the exception of electronics, primarily due to Apple. ......... Caitlin Burrows Hi, good morning. You mentioned that your sales were up 3% on a comparable basis and I think that’s on a trailing 12 month basis. I was wondering could you comment on your 4Q and holiday sales in particular and whether you saw any difference by markets? Sandeep Mathrani Actually not, as I mentioned it was 3% for less than 10,000 feet and actually for all retail excluding department stores and it was about 4.5% ex Apple and all 4% for all retail ex department stores without Apple. And the holiday season stayed in that same wheel house. It was about the same 3% to 4% up. seekingalpha.com/article/3856826-general-growth-properties-ggp-sandeep-mathrani-q4-2015-results-earnings-call-transcript
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Post by nagrani on Feb 2, 2016 18:43:14 GMT -8
Apple should buy Ferrari and create a new line of electric cars for the masses. Who wouldn't want to buy a Ferrari.
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Post by hledgard on Feb 2, 2016 20:42:32 GMT -8
WHOA! The Apple Store might be losing its place as the king of the American mall, at least according to a mall operator whose properties — including many of the country’s top shopping destinations — house 46 of Apple’s 268 U.S. stores. www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/apple-stores-are-no-longer-the-star-of-the-american-mall#.hcbWjNVrkFrom the GGP earnings call. GGP owns shopping centers. Passing the portfolio by quality grade, we experienced sales increases throughout the country. Nearly every major retail category was up with the exception of electronics, primarily due to Apple. ......... Caitlin Burrows Hi, good morning. You mentioned that your sales were up 3% on a comparable basis and I think that’s on a trailing 12 month basis. I was wondering could you comment on your 4Q and holiday sales in particular and whether you saw any difference by markets? Sandeep Mathrani Actually not, as I mentioned it was 3% for less than 10,000 feet and actually for all retail excluding department stores and it was about 4.5% ex Apple and all 4% for all retail ex department stores without Apple. And the holiday season stayed in that same wheel house. It was about the same 3% to 4% up. seekingalpha.com/article/3856826-general-growth-properties-ggp-sandeep-mathrani-q4-2015-results-earnings-call-transcriptNote that Apple Stores are NOT really to make money. They advertise the elegance of Apple products and are also a Help line to those who use Apple products. I and my family own many Apple products. We have visited the Apple store many times. We have never bought directly fro m the Apple Store.
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Post by chasmac on Feb 2, 2016 21:06:11 GMT -8
WHOA! The Apple Store might be losing its place as the king of the American mall, at least according to a mall operator whose properties — including many of the country’s top shopping destinations — house 46 of Apple’s 268 U.S. stores. www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/apple-stores-are-no-longer-the-star-of-the-american-mall#.hcbWjNVrkFrom the GGP earnings call. GGP owns shopping centers. Passing the portfolio by quality grade, we experienced sales increases throughout the country. Nearly every major retail category was up with the exception of electronics, primarily due to Apple. ......... Caitlin Burrows Hi, good morning. You mentioned that your sales were up 3% on a comparable basis and I think that’s on a trailing 12 month basis. I was wondering could you comment on your 4Q and holiday sales in particular and whether you saw any difference by markets? Sandeep Mathrani Actually not, as I mentioned it was 3% for less than 10,000 feet and actually for all retail excluding department stores and it was about 4.5% ex Apple and all 4% for all retail ex department stores without Apple. And the holiday season stayed in that same wheel house. It was about the same 3% to 4% up. seekingalpha.com/article/3856826-general-growth-properties-ggp-sandeep-mathrani-q4-2015-results-earnings-call-transcriptNote that Apple Stores are NOT really to make money. They advertise the elegance of Apple products and are also a Help line to those who use Apple products. I and my family own many Apple products. We have visited the Apple store many times. We have never bought directly fro m the Apple Store. Nonsense. This has more to do with American shoppers buying online than anything is my guess. Way more points of sale as well for all of their products.
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Post by ahmpower on Feb 3, 2016 2:56:50 GMT -8
I was considering switching from AAPL to FB back in july 2013. FB quadrupled since then while AAPL rose 50%. That thought really made me mad yesterday. I wonder how mad this board will be when FB passes AAPL?
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,552
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Post by mark on Feb 3, 2016 6:16:37 GMT -8
The article is silly. Apple bought its own shares at ~$125 which are now worth ~$95. Many were screaming for Apple to buy Netflix. Had they bought Netflix at ~$125, the result would be similar since the market is valuing it at ~$92 now. And nobody knows if the market would value Netflix even lower if it were folded into Apple. Finally, the article is also silly because Apple did indeed greatly reduce the overall outstanding share count over the last few years. And it's also silly because Apple still has a ton of cash remaining to take advantage of rare opportunities if they come along. Mark, can you explain how buying at $125 and having the shares drop to $95 is not a waste of shareholder value. I see the same problem if they buy a massive amount at $95. I addressed the characterization of "sham". Obviously buying anywhere other than at the absolute low is a "waste" of shareholder value. Let me know when you find the manager that can only buy at the absolute low
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,552
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Post by mark on Feb 3, 2016 6:19:58 GMT -8
I just never saw the point of the buybacks and this confirms it for me. Paying out much higher dividends would have made better use of the cash in my opinion. Not for me. If they gave us all that money in dividends, I would have to pay tax on it immediately. That only leaves me with ~65-75% of it to use. This way, I can choose when to take capital gains on my larger ownership portion of the company after buybacks. Maybe I'll have a year of low effective tax rates such that it would be advantageous to take capital gains at that time instead.
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