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Post by firestorm on Feb 22, 2016 14:56:08 GMT -8
We are talking about nuances of blame that are difficult to explain accurately. The American people do not handle nuance well, and if it's perceived as "Apple on the side of terrorists," there is going to be hell to pay. But we AAPL stockholders are always enjoying the roller coaster ride, aren't we? It's NOT difficult to explain. Apple designed the security of the iPhone (encryption keys generated by the phone stay on the phone) in such a way that even Apple doesn't have access to it. This means your medical data, credit cards, photo's etc. are beyond the reach of the bad guys. OS X security is my number one reason for being an investor as the importance of this will become clearer as time goes on. You're worried about a roller coaster ride with AAPL? Try having your identity stolen. The fact that the FBI and presumably NSA can't hack it is a reason to cheer. I'm hoping Apple will POUND this message until the majority understand it. And they will. And this is why I once said that the terrorist market for the iPhone would become an important one for Apple: privacy trumping common sense. No privacy rights should be absolute, or we will lose means of tracking the truly bad guys, including terrorists, sex traffickers, and corporate thieves. Freedom of speech is not absolute, nor is the 2nd Amendment to the American Constiitution.
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Post by rickag on Feb 22, 2016 15:48:54 GMT -8
It's NOT difficult to explain. Apple designed the security of the iPhone (encryption keys generated by the phone stay on the phone) in such a way that even Apple doesn't have access to it. This means your medical data, credit cards, photo's etc. are beyond the reach of the bad guys. OS X security is my number one reason for being an investor as the importance of this will become clearer as time goes on. You're worried about a roller coaster ride with AAPL? Try having your identity stolen. The fact that the FBI and presumably NSA can't hack it is a reason to cheer. I'm hoping Apple will POUND this message until the majority understand it. And they will. And this is why I once said that the terrorist market for the iPhone would become an important one for Apple: privacy trumping common sense. No privacy rights should be absolute, or we will lose means of tracking the truly bad guys, including terrorists, sex traffickers, and corporate thieves. Freedom of speech is not absolute, nor is the 2nd Amendment to the American Constiitution. The iPhone will not be the choice of terrorist organizations that are true threats. The walled garden is too great a burden for side loading their encryption tools. AND they know that Apple could if forced to bypass its own, that meaning Apple's encryption. The truly dangerous terrorists have billions of dollars of funds (ISIS, Korea, Iran, etc.)
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Post by firestorm on Feb 22, 2016 16:05:52 GMT -8
And this is why I once said that the terrorist market for the iPhone would become an important one for Apple: privacy trumping common sense. No privacy rights should be absolute, or we will lose means of tracking the truly bad guys, including terrorists, sex traffickers, and corporate thieves. Freedom of speech is not absolute, nor is the 2nd Amendment to the American Constiitution. The iPhone will not be the choice of terrorist organizations that are true threats. The walled garden is too great a burden for side loading their encryption tools. AND they know that Apple could if forced to bypass its own, that meaning Apple's encryption. The truly dangerous terrorists have billions of dollars of funds (ISIS, Korea, Iran, etc.) Good points. Tonight a poll showed that 51% of the American public is on the side of the government, and 38% is on the side of Apple in this conflict. It is a titanic struggle for hearts and minds. Interestingly, I'm quite sure that the conflict does not break cleanly along party lines, but instead it is a conflict largely with libertarians, anarchists, the extreme left, and the extreme right on one side, and moderates of both parties on the other side. It is fun to watch the battle, I just hope Apple doesn't get hurt too much.
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stub
Member
The fix is in. Be patient. Don't panic.
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Post by stub on Feb 22, 2016 16:25:41 GMT -8
The iPhone will not be the choice of terrorist organizations that are true threats. The walled garden is too great a burden for side loading their encryption tools. AND they know that Apple could if forced to bypass its own, that meaning Apple's encryption. The truly dangerous terrorists have billions of dollars of funds (ISIS, Korea, Iran, etc.) Good points. Tonight a poll showed that 51% of the American public is on the side of the government, and 38% is on the side of Apple in this conflict. It is a titanic struggle for hearts and minds. Interestingly, I'm quite sure that the conflict does not break cleanly along party lines, but instead it is a conflict largely with libertarians, anarchists, the extreme left, and the extreme right on one side, and moderates of both parties on the other side. It is fun to watch the battle, I just hope Apple doesn't get hurt too much. ...this can only benefit apple either way it pans out. Remember, this is all staged. Tim is plying his part well and looking really cool. Go Tim!
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Ted
fire starter
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Post by Ted on Feb 22, 2016 16:27:25 GMT -8
Interesting tale of one man's relatively small encrypted email service being bullied about by federal forces and intimidated into closing up shop. This time, however, the govt. is messing with the world's wealthiest corporation, which retains strong legal counsel and has a full commitment to fighting this. It's not quite analogous, wouldn't you say?
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Ted
fire starter
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Post by Ted on Feb 22, 2016 16:39:51 GMT -8
And this is why I once said that the terrorist market for the iPhone would become an important one for Apple: privacy trumping common sense. No privacy rights should be absolute, or we will lose means of tracking the truly bad guys, including terrorists, sex traffickers, and corporate thieves. Freedom of speech is not absolute, nor is the 2nd Amendment to the American Constiitution. The "terrorist market?" Is that a major demographic I don't know about. So, the NSA and co. monitor phone calls, emails, text messages, web use, etc. - communications. That seems like plenty to keep them busy. Should the "protectors of societies" also read every letter that's sent? Have access to every phone that has info on it? Search every safe deposit box that might hold pertinent secrets? There need to be limits. That's what this is about. Saying that freedom of speech and privacy rights aren't absolute does little to shed light on the legal nuances presented by this case. These are important issues that need to be explored, not driven over and crushed by those in power.
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Post by rickag on Feb 22, 2016 16:51:09 GMT -8
I had no idea how far down the rabbit hole the U.S. has gone.
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Post by artman1033 on Feb 22, 2016 16:56:51 GMT -8
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Post by nathanstevens on Feb 22, 2016 17:39:48 GMT -8
Repost from late in the weekend thread: Meanwhile in China: China Mobile adds 23.3M 4G subs in Jan. +39% YoY (total now 336M > US Pop) They had ZERO 4G infrastructure 2 years ago. They still have 493M non-4G subscribers. Keep this in mind when thinking about India. www.chinamobileltd.com/en/ir/operation.php?section=number
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Post by Luckychoices on Feb 22, 2016 18:15:05 GMT -8
Thanks for posting this. I've never heard Darrell Issa sound so...so...oh, what's that word I'm thinking of...oh, I know...intelligent.
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Post by macster on Feb 22, 2016 18:49:20 GMT -8
Thanks for posting this. I've never heard Darrell Issa sound so...so...oh, what's that word I'm thinking of...oh, I know...intelligent. Too many tv news short takes or commentary of the bias kind probably. We are what we are until what we were is not what we are. Sorry in my case its my disgust with Trump EDIT: Here is a good one. Buying a Trump? Better read the fine print. www.cnn.com/2016/02/22/politics/trump-properties-investigation/
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Post by Luckychoices on Feb 22, 2016 19:21:27 GMT -8
This a story from 5 days ago, the 17th of February. Apple fighting order in San Bernardino shootings probewww.cbsnews.com/news/apple-fighting-order-in-san-bernardino-shootings-probe/Can anyone on the board tell me why I had to search for the information I've excerpted below regarding the PERSONAL cell phones the killers owned? I happened to see it in one story several days ago but it isn't even mentioned in most of the stories regarding the court order. ==== The couple took pains to physically destroy two personally owned cell phones, crushing them beyond the FBI's ability to recover information from them. They also removed a hard drive from their computer; it has not been found despite investigators diving for days for potential electronic evidence in a nearby lake.==== I'm not in the FBI or any other branch of law enforcement but this appears to be very significant. The killers crushed their personal cell phones, removed the hard drive from their computer but left the work phone untouched. Hmmm. Why would they do that? Could it possibly be because there was no incriminating evidence on that phone so there was no need to destroy it? Could I go further and suggest that, since they each had their own cell phone, it would have been stupid to risk putting evidence on a phone, owned by the county, which could possibly be compromised by authorities before or after their deaths?
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Post by chasmac on Feb 22, 2016 19:40:03 GMT -8
It's NOT difficult to explain. Apple designed the security of the iPhone (encryption keys generated by the phone stay on the phone) in such a way that even Apple doesn't have access to it. This means your medical data, credit cards, photo's etc. are beyond the reach of the bad guys. OS X security is my number one reason for being an investor as the importance of this will become clearer as time goes on. You're worried about a roller coaster ride with AAPL? Try having your identity stolen. The fact that the FBI and presumably NSA can't hack it is a reason to cheer. I'm hoping Apple will POUND this message until the majority understand it. And they will. And this is why I once said that the terrorist market for the iPhone would become an important one for Apple: privacy trumping common sense. No privacy rights should be absolute, or we will lose means of tracking the truly bad guys, including terrorists, sex traffickers, and corporate thieves. Freedom of speech is not absolute, nor is the 2nd Amendment to the American Constiitution. My God just stop. How many f'ing phones are they going to sell to terrorists as opposed to everyone else? This is about one thing, law enforcement using the fear of Muslim terrorists to gain access to any device you have. This has been planned for some time and they finally came up with the perfect case for it. Anyone that thinks that this will magically be a one off thing and we'll still have the same level of security/privacy as before is an naive. Please visit the weekend thread and read the blog articles posted there about why creating this tool is a problem. If the US/law enforcement cares so much about lives, why don't they don't do something about guns in this country? The 2nd amendment is sacrosanct but the others, meh.
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Post by appleaddict on Feb 22, 2016 19:47:29 GMT -8
This a story from 5 days, the 17th of February. Apple fighting order in San Bernardino shootings probewww.cbsnews.com/news/apple-fighting-order-in-san-bernardino-shootings-probe/Can anyone on the board tell me why I had to search for the information I've excerpted below regarding the PERSONAL cell phones the killers owned? I happened to see it in one story several days ago but it isn't even mentioned in most of the stories regarding the court order. ==== The couple took pains to physically destroy two personally owned cell phones, crushing them beyond the FBI's ability to recover information from them. They also removed a hard drive from their computer; it has not been found despite investigators diving for days for potential electronic evidence in a nearby lake.==== I'm not in the FBI or any other branch of law enforcement but this appears to be very significant. The killers crushed their personal cell phones, removed the hard drive from their computer but left the work phone untouched. Hmmm. Why would they do that? Could it possibly be because there was no incriminating evidence on that phone so there was no need to destroy it? Could I go further and suggest that, since they each had their own cell phone, it would have been stupid to risk putting evidence on a phone, owned by the county, which could possibly be compromised by authorities before or after their deaths? I saw this a week ago and noticed how it's been conveniently left out from any other discussion.
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Post by artman1033 on Feb 22, 2016 20:07:57 GMT -8
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Post by artman1033 on Feb 22, 2016 20:37:52 GMT -8
in other news: Apple: IBM has been collaborating with Apple since 2014 on developing enterprise mobility solutions together, but today’s news focuses more on developer tools, specifically Apple’s programming language Swift and IBM’s role in making it accessible in the cloud. This first kicked off in December, when IBM announced its Swift Sandbox after Apple open sourced Swift, making it the first cloud provider to enable app development in Swift. That Sandbox is now used by over 100,000 developers and over half a million code runs, IBM said today. And now IBM is bringing this together with its larger enterprise play with Apple, with preview of a Swift runtime and a Swift Package Catalog to create enterprise apps. “By bringing Swift beyond the client to the server, IBM is breaking down barriers between front-end and back-end development, which can provide enterprises a single language to build rich experiences and back-end business logic,” the company says. This, IBM continues, increases development speed and provides a more secure toolchain for end-to-end application development. techcrunch.com/2016/02/22/ibm-inks-deals-with-apple-vmware-github-bitly-and-more-as-it-doubles-down-on-the-cloud/
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platon
Member
"All we can know is that we know nothing. And that's the height of human wisdom.? Tolstoy
Posts: 3,944
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Post by platon on Feb 22, 2016 22:19:14 GMT -8
And this is why I once said that the terrorist market for the iPhone would become an important one for Apple: privacy trumping common sense. No privacy rights should be absolute, or we will lose means of tracking the truly bad guys, including terrorists, sex traffickers, and corporate thieves. Freedom of speech is not absolute, nor is the 2nd Amendment to the American Constiitution. My God just stop. How many f'ing phones are they going to sell to terrorists as opposed to everyone else? This is about one thing, law enforcement using the fear of Muslim terrorists to gain access to any device you have. This has been planned for some time and they finally came up with the perfect case for it. Anyone that thinks that this will magically be a one off thing and we'll still have the same level of security/privacy as before is an naive. Please visit the weekend thread and read the blog articles posted there about why creating this tool is a problem. If the US/law enforcement cares so much about lives, why don't they don't do something about guns in this country? The 2nd amendment is sacrosanct but the others, meh. Telling Firestorm to stop doesn't work that well, you have to kill him with words and data. But since you two lefties brought it up the 2nd Amendment is the only freedom in the BOR that shall not be infringed and I can break away from my forays into the vast left-wing internet conspiracies to give you both lessons on it should you care to go downstairs. I have a few thousand files on court cases and writings from the founding documents I can present to you. But then neither of you would read them, they would not change the minds of any true lefties who choose to defend only those freedoms that they think are important and it would just make you both mad, so let's just drop that discussion here. OK? I will check the Dungeon in a couple of days for comments. The right to privacy can be infringed by due process of law as stated, but it cannot be infringed by an out of control government who seeks a covert method of controlling and monitoring its citizens without their knowledge and that is what this case is about. The polls reflect the intelligence of the electorate on this issue as well as the antipathy of the public to the dangers of an all powerful central government (left or right) who does not love them and seeks only to stay in power. Most of the technical as well as the conservative sites (higher than average intelligence and certainly more politically aware) I have been to are 70% in Apples favor. If Apple could give the FBI what they want without giving them a pass key they would, just as they have done in the past. Again this is not what this about.
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platon
Member
"All we can know is that we know nothing. And that's the height of human wisdom.? Tolstoy
Posts: 3,944
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Post by platon on Feb 22, 2016 22:40:51 GMT -8
I had no idea how far down the rabbit hole the U.S. has gone. This is just the upstairs part of that rabbit hole. You should see what they have done in the basement.
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Post by hamourabi on Feb 23, 2016 1:03:27 GMT -8
A detailed explanation of what is at stake with FBI order www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=5645Recently, FBI got a court order that compels Apple to create a forensics tool; this tool would let FBI brute force the PIN on a suspect’s device. But lets look at the difference between this and simply bringing a phone to Apple; maybe you’ll start to see the difference of why this is so significant, not to mention underhanded.
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Post by firestorm on Feb 23, 2016 4:14:13 GMT -8
And this is why I once said that the terrorist market for the iPhone would become an important one for Apple: privacy trumping common sense. No privacy rights should be absolute, or we will lose means of tracking the truly bad guys, including terrorists, sex traffickers, and corporate thieves. Freedom of speech is not absolute, nor is the 2nd Amendment to the American Constiitution. My God just stop. How many f'ing phones are they going to sell to terrorists as opposed to everyone else? This is about one thing, law enforcement using the fear of Muslim terrorists to gain access to any device you have. This has been planned for some time and they finally came up with the perfect case for it. Anyone that thinks that this will magically be a one off thing and we'll still have the same level of security/privacy as before is an naive. Please visit the weekend thread and read the blog articles posted there about why creating this tool is a problem. If the US/law enforcement cares so much about lives, why don't they don't do something about guns in this country? The 2nd amendment is sacrosanct but the others, meh. What do you propose they do about guns? I would love to hear this. And the point about the "terrorist market" was pretty clearly humor, except to the impaired. If I was an American company trying to sell to the terrorist market, I would be selling assault-style rifles, pickup trucks, and cloth hoods to wear for the photos of everyone driving across the desert in pickup trucks with guns raised.
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Post by firestorm on Feb 23, 2016 4:22:28 GMT -8
My God just stop. How many f'ing phones are they going to sell to terrorists as opposed to everyone else? This is about one thing, law enforcement using the fear of Muslim terrorists to gain access to any device you have. This has been planned for some time and they finally came up with the perfect case for it. Anyone that thinks that this will magically be a one off thing and we'll still have the same level of security/privacy as before is an naive. Please visit the weekend thread and read the blog articles posted there about why creating this tool is a problem. If the US/law enforcement cares so much about lives, why don't they don't do something about guns in this country? The 2nd amendment is sacrosanct but the others, meh. Telling Firestorm to stop doesn't work that well, you have to kill him with words and data. But since you two lefties brought it up the 2nd Amendment is the only freedom in the BOR that shall not be infringed and I can break away from my forays into the vast left-wing internet conspiracies to give you both lessons on it should you care to go downstairs. I have a few thousand files on court cases and writings from the founding documents I can present to you. But then neither of you would read them, they would not change the minds of any true lefties who choose to defend only those freedoms that they think are important and it would just make you both mad, so let's just drop that discussion here. OK? I will check the Dungeon in a couple of days for comments. The right to privacy can be infringed by due process of law as stated, but it cannot be infringed by an out of control government who seeks a covert method of controlling and monitoring its citizens without their knowledge and that is what this case is about. The polls reflect the intelligence of the electorate on this issue as well as the antipathy of the public to the dangers of an all powerful central government (left or right) who does not love them and seeks only to stay in power. Most of the technical as well as the conservative sites (higher than average intelligence and certainly more politically aware) I have been to are 70% in Apples favor. If Apple could give the FBI what they want without giving them a pass key they would, just as they have done in the past. Again this is not what this about. You might try civility in your arguments. I stand by the points I made, and I think Apple might be on the wrong side of history. Many people are so bound by their hatred of the federal government that they cannot think clearly. I must admit, though, that it is kind of fun to watch the terrorists and the extreme right wing united in their hatred of our government. I'd call it an unholy alliance, or the spawn of Satan.
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Post by firestorm on Feb 23, 2016 4:28:34 GMT -8
Bill Gates made exactly the same points that I made: that this could be done on a one-time basis. It should have been accomplished quietly, without the fireworks: www.macrumors.com
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Post by macster on Feb 23, 2016 10:22:12 GMT -8
Bill Gates made exactly the same points that I made: that this could be done on a one-time basis. It should have been accomplished quietly, without the fireworks: www.macrumors.combeen disputed
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Post by firestorm on Feb 23, 2016 15:01:19 GMT -8
Bill Gates made exactly the same points that I made: that this could be done on a one-time basis. It should have been accomplished quietly, without the fireworks: www.macrumors.combeen disputed Here is a late quote from Bill Gates: “You don’t just want to take the minute after a terrorist event and swing that direction, nor do you want to completely swing away from government access when you have some abuse,” he said. “You want to strike that balance that the United States leads and setting an example.” That is exactly my point, and there is a need for balance, and balance does not allow Muslim or right-wing terrorists the right to absolute privacy.
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platon
Member
"All we can know is that we know nothing. And that's the height of human wisdom.? Tolstoy
Posts: 3,944
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Post by platon on Feb 23, 2016 16:04:24 GMT -8
Bill Gates made exactly the same points that I made: that this could be done on a one-time basis. It should have been accomplished quietly, without the fireworks: www.macrumors.comMy response is in the Dungeon.
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Post by macster on Feb 23, 2016 16:13:47 GMT -8
Here is a late quote from Bill Gates: “You don’t just want to take the minute after a terrorist event and swing that direction, nor do you want to completely swing away from government access when you have some abuse,” he said. “You want to strike that balance that the United States leads and setting an example.” That is exactly my point, and there is a need for balance, and balance does not allow Muslim or right-wing terrorists the right to absolute privacy. Have you read this piece. There is a sinister thing going on with all this. We all agree with the simplistic Bill Gates comments. forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/191955In new court filing, Apple cites 9 other cases in which FBI asserted the All Writs Act edit also www.macrumors.com/2016/02/23/doj-vs-apple-12-court-orders/
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Post by firestorm on Feb 23, 2016 17:24:48 GMT -8
Bill Gates made exactly the same points that I made: that this could be done on a one-time basis. It should have been accomplished quietly, without the fireworks: www.macrumors.comMy response is in the Dungeon. Where you belong.
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