Since84
Moderator
To infinity and beyond!
Posts: 3,933
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Post by Since84 on Nov 18, 2016 3:38:22 GMT -8
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Post by incorrigible on Nov 18, 2016 5:30:24 GMT -8
Speaking of the dividend, I wish companies could offer a two tiered dividend system. Say 2% for all shareholders on the ex-div date and an additional 2% for shareholders who have held the shares for 365+ days. Reward the long term shareholders over the traders.
Just me thinking (rambling) out loud.
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Post by artman1033 on Nov 18, 2016 5:50:12 GMT -8
Will increase smartphone share vs Samsung? too early to tell? from BBY: Mike Baker Thanks. Just a couple on the mobile category. First, so as it relates to the recall, what you typically – what have you seen this quarter and what do you think you’ll see? Do people just hold off on buying if they were interested Samsung, do they just hold off and buying a phone or do they replace it with another phone and then related to that it seems like you got a bump from the iPhone 7 launch. Typically how long does the bump from a new successful iPhone launch last? Is that a couple quarters? Is that into next year until you lap it? Thanks. Hubert Joly Yes, thank you for your question. So on the Note 7, it’s early to say. We do see a fair bit of brands and Operating Systems and size loyalty and so the customers are not rushing to buy something else at this point in time so we’ll see how it evolves during the quarter but this is a pretty much hold your breath kind of a situation for many of these customers, you want to take the iPhone 7, Corie? Corie Barry Yes, on the iPhone, we are actually seeing a pretty much just in line with what our expectations were. If you recall we kind of said we didn’t think it would be quite the bang of an iPhone 6 nor quite the slowness that we saw last year somewhere in between and that’s a little bit of what we are seeing. To your question about how long does the trend last it’s a little tricky, remember we talked a bit about single skew and the ability to buy the phone across multiple carriers that means we add a better supply of inventory, add more inventory that is available for customers, so that means quicker sell through early on. And so we’re watching it now to look at the trends that implies going out. We like where the trends are holding up right now and typically as we watch the cycle it obviously tails as you go through the year, but it usually when people want the phone it’s a cycle that continues. So again, we are not going to quite provide guidance into next year, but it tends to be a cycle that continues over time as people replace their phones. seekingalpha.com/article/4024373-best-buys-bby-ceo-hubert-joly-q3-2017-results-earnings-call-transcript?part=single
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Post by rickag on Nov 18, 2016 6:42:59 GMT -8
Pretty good volume early this morning.
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Post by tuffett on Nov 18, 2016 7:48:30 GMT -8
Speaking of the dividend, I wish companies could offer a two tiered dividend system. Say 2% for all shareholders on the ex-div date and an additional 2% for shareholders who have held the shares for 365+ days. Reward the long term shareholders over the traders. Just me thinking (rambling) out loud. That's a great idea in principle. I wonder if it's possible. I certainly don't hold the stock, I trade in and out of it, but something like this would make me reconsider. Not because the 2% is a huge deal, but because it means the investor base will be more focused and the crazy swings will probably be dampened.
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Post by david on Nov 18, 2016 9:07:27 GMT -8
Speaking of the dividend, I wish companies could offer a two tiered dividend system. Say 2% for all shareholders on the ex-div date and an additional 2% for shareholders who have held the shares for 365+ days. Reward the long term shareholders over the traders. Just me thinking (rambling) out loud. That's a great idea in principle. I wonder if it's possible. I certainly don't hold the stock, I trade in and out of it, but something like this would make me reconsider. Not because the 2% is a huge deal, but because it means the investor base will be more focused and the crazy swings will probably be dampened. You don't own any AAPL? Just a trader? Do you own an Apple product of any kind?
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,555
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Post by mark on Nov 18, 2016 10:15:58 GMT -8
My iPhone 7 PLUS just shipped!!!!! The delivery estimate was Dec 12 - 19 until yesterday morning, but when I checked earlier today it says it shipped. Joy!
It's my first new iPhone ever, all my others were hand-me-downs of some sort. Now using a 5S with a battery that is greatly deteriorated (and I use one of those charging cases to keep it alive).
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Post by rob_london on Nov 18, 2016 11:51:01 GMT -8
Speaking of the dividend, I wish companies could offer a two tiered dividend system. Say 2% for all shareholders on the ex-div date and an additional 2% for shareholders who have held the shares for 365+ days. Reward the long term shareholders over the traders. Just me thinking (rambling) out loud. The French cosmetics company L'Oréal has a loyalty scheme for registered shareholders. Those holding the shares for more than two calendar years receive a preferential dividend of 10% each year.
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Post by tuffett on Nov 18, 2016 12:08:10 GMT -8
That's a great idea in principle. I wonder if it's possible. I certainly don't hold the stock, I trade in and out of it, but something like this would make me reconsider. Not because the 2% is a huge deal, but because it means the investor base will be more focused and the crazy swings will probably be dampened. You don't own any AAPL? Just a trader? Do you own an Apple product of any kind? I did own for several years, now trade in and out. I keep a core holding in my non-taxable accounts. All my electronics are Apple wherever possible. If you're implying that I'm a troll, you're wrong. Just not a perma-bull with blinders on. I try to remain objective at all times.
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Post by rob_london on Nov 18, 2016 12:13:30 GMT -8
Speaking of the dividend, I wish companies could offer a two tiered dividend system. Say 2% for all shareholders on the ex-div date and an additional 2% for shareholders who have held the shares for 365+ days. Reward the long term shareholders over the traders. Just me thinking (rambling) out loud. That's a great idea in principle. I wonder if it's possible. I certainly don't hold the stock, I trade in and out of it, but something like this would make me reconsider. Not because the 2% is a huge deal, but because it means the investor base will be more focused and the crazy swings will probably be dampened. Surely volatility in a stock's share price is welcomed by traders.
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Post by tuffett on Nov 18, 2016 12:58:21 GMT -8
That's a great idea in principle. I wonder if it's possible. I certainly don't hold the stock, I trade in and out of it, but something like this would make me reconsider. Not because the 2% is a huge deal, but because it means the investor base will be more focused and the crazy swings will probably be dampened. Surely volatility in a stock's share price is welcomed by traders. Exactly. Did you read my post? I prefer investing over trading so if AAPL becomes more amenable to long term investors I will be happy. Right now I trade it because it's the sensible thing to do in my opinion.
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Post by rob_london on Nov 18, 2016 13:39:44 GMT -8
Surely volatility in a stock's share price is welcomed by traders. Exactly. Did you read my post? I prefer investing over trading so if AAPL becomes more amenable to long term investors I will be happy. Right now I trade it because it's the sensible thing to do in my opinion. In my opinion a 862% total return in 10 years strikes me as a decent return to long term investors in Apple.
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Post by rickag on Nov 18, 2016 13:40:04 GMT -8
You don't own any AAPL? Just a trader? Do you own an Apple product of any kind? I did own for several years, now trade in and out. I keep a core holding in my non-taxable accounts. All my electronics are Apple wherever possible. If you're implying that I'm a troll, you're wrong. Just not a perma-bull with blinders on. I try to remain objective at all times. I know you're not a troll. Honest question though, why would trade in a taxable account over your non-taxable account and avoid any capital gains taxes?
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Post by tuffett on Nov 18, 2016 14:14:38 GMT -8
Exactly. Did you read my post? I prefer investing over trading so if AAPL becomes more amenable to long term investors I will be happy. Right now I trade it because it's the sensible thing to do in my opinion. In my opinion a 862% total return in 10 years strikes me as a decent return to long term investors in Apple. We can all choose numbers to support our respective theses. Personally I don't think the AAPL of 10 years ago has much relevance to the AAPL of today. Over the last few years, AAPL has been trading on fears of overreliance on the iPhone and potential of peak iPhone. Those concerns very much still exist today and are even stronger, and so I give much more weighting to recent history. I don't look at where KO traded in the 1970s and the incredible return it has provided to determine that it's a buy and hold stock today. I look at how it's traded recently and what has changed in terms of fundamentals going forward. Substitute any stock that has done well in the past in place of AAPL and you may see how much emotions might be clouding judgement.
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Post by tuffett on Nov 18, 2016 14:16:32 GMT -8
I did own for several years, now trade in and out. I keep a core holding in my non-taxable accounts. All my electronics are Apple wherever possible. If you're implying that I'm a troll, you're wrong. Just not a perma-bull with blinders on. I try to remain objective at all times. I know you're not a troll. Honest question though, why would trade in a taxable account over your non-taxable account and avoid any capital gains taxes? My non-taxable accounts are more retirement-based and set and forget. I'm happy to see slow growth over time in them. Trading can be both more lucrative and more risky and I'd rather segregate those funds.
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Post by rickag on Nov 18, 2016 15:15:59 GMT -8
I know you're not a troll. Honest question though, why would trade in a taxable account over your non-taxable account and avoid any capital gains taxes? My non-taxable accounts are more retirement-based and set and forget. I'm happy to see slow growth over time in them. Trading can be both more lucrative and more risky and I'd rather segregate those funds. Thanks for the response. I did the same thing a few years ago on a very limited basis trading options and lost it all. It was less than 1.5% of our retirement if memory serves. I am tempted to try again but would use AAPL in a retirement account and only use covered calls.
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bud777
fire starter
Posts: 1,353
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Post by bud777 on Nov 18, 2016 16:16:10 GMT -8
I'm not sure it makes sense to trade in a retirement account. Your gains are guaranteed to eventually be taxed at the normal income rate when you take your MRD. If you trade in your regular account you have the possibility of only paying the 15% capital gains tax. Selling OTM covered calls that are more than a year out lets you pay 15% even on the options profits. Of course, that is based on the current tax code. Who knows what it will look like this time next year.
Oops, I forgot that Tuffet is Canadian. I have no idea how their tax system works. My observations are U.S. tax code only
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Post by tuffett on Nov 18, 2016 19:01:28 GMT -8
I'm not sure it makes sense to trade in a retirement account. Your gains are guaranteed to eventually be taxed at the normal income rate when you take your MRD. If you trade in your regular account you have the possibility of only paying the 15% capital gains tax. Selling OTM covered calls that are more than a year out lets you pay 15% even on the options profits. Of course, that is based on the current tax code. Who knows what it will look like this time next year. Oops, I forgot that Tuffet is Canadian. I have no idea how their tax system works. My observations are U.S. tax code only You are right - pretty much the same over here!
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Post by rickag on Nov 19, 2016 5:40:42 GMT -8
I'm not sure it makes sense to trade in a retirement account. Your gains are guaranteed to eventually be taxed at the normal income rate when you take your MRD. If you trade in your regular account you have the possibility of only paying the 15% capital gains tax. Selling OTM covered calls that are more than a year out lets you pay 15% even on the options profits. Of course, that is based on the current tax code. Who knows what it will look like this time next year. Oops, I forgot that Tuffet is Canadian. I have no idea how their tax system works. My observations are U.S. tax code only I was thinking weeklies OTM. Sell well OTM with very low risk of being called away. Yes it would eventually be taxed as income but I also wouldn't have to file squat with the IRS, huge benefit. I could pick up another share per week maybe. Not a lot of gains but still something.
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Post by Apple II+ on Nov 19, 2016 9:26:19 GMT -8
Selling OTM covered calls that are more than a year out lets you pay 15% even on the options profits. bud, I don't think that's true unless they get exercised, in which case the options proceeds affect your stock basis. Any profit on shorting is treated as short term, no matter how long the short position is held.
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Post by rob_london on Nov 20, 2016 3:20:39 GMT -8
In my opinion a 862% total return in 10 years strikes me as a decent return to long term investors in Apple. We can all choose numbers to support our respective theses. Personally I don't think the AAPL of 10 years ago has much relevance to the AAPL of today. Over the last few years, AAPL has been trading on fears of overreliance on the iPhone and potential of peak iPhone. Those concerns very much still exist today and are even stronger, and so I give much more weighting to recent history. I don't look at where KO traded in the 1970s and the incredible return it has provided to determine that it's a buy and hold stock today. I look at how it's traded recently and what has changed in terms of fundamentals going forward. Substitute any stock that has done well in the past in place of AAPL and you may see how much emotions might be clouding judgement. Everyone has their own investment style. I know that the largest gains in my portfolio have come from holding good quality businesses for the long term (10+ years). When researching companies, I like to study fundamental data stretching back at least ten years, as I like to ascertain how a business has fared through several economic cycles and market conditions. Whilst management may come and go and competitive markets change, the strong fundamentals of good quality companies with business moats tend to endure. For the last ten years the ROCE and CROCI for Apple have remained incredibly strong and stable. Despite the current risks, which I am sure everyone on this board are fully aware of, Apple is a veritable cash machine and still good value in my opinion.
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