Since84
Moderator
To infinity and beyond!
Posts: 3,933
|
Post by Since84 on Dec 12, 2016 3:18:22 GMT -8
|
|
Since84
Moderator
To infinity and beyond!
Posts: 3,933
|
Post by Since84 on Dec 12, 2016 3:22:41 GMT -8
The DOW is now RED as well. Hopefully a temporary pause in a December Santa Rally.
|
|
|
Post by tuffett on Dec 12, 2016 6:48:20 GMT -8
|
|
Ted
fire starter
Posts: 882
|
Post by Ted on Dec 12, 2016 7:03:11 GMT -8
I'm sure the release was very, uh ... smooth. Why quote msft propaganda? The Appleinsider article states that they (msft) don't even reveal any actual numbers, so . . . appleinsider.com/articles/16/12/12/microsoft-touts-surface-success-claims-more-macbook-switchers-than-ever"For its part, Apple claims that the new MacBook Pro is anything but a disappointment at launch. Last month, marketing chief Phil Schiller claimed that initial orders for the new Touch Bar-equipped models exceeded any other pro model that came before. "We are proud to tell you that so far our online store has had more orders for the new MacBook Pro than any other pro notebook before," added Schiller. "So there certainly are a lot of people as excited as we are about it."
|
|
mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,552
|
Post by mark on Dec 12, 2016 7:30:57 GMT -8
A friend who loves the surface was looking to buy one a few months ago. I, partly jokingly, told him to find a cheap used mac and trade it in to get a lower overall price.
|
|
|
Post by tuffett on Dec 12, 2016 7:37:34 GMT -8
Why quote msft propaganda? The Appleinsider article states that they (msft) don't even reveal any actual numbers, so . . . Why quote AAPL propaganda? I consider any statements they make about switchers to be factually correct, just as I do here. Frankly I'm not surprised given the fact that so many people were waiting to see what Apple would come out with and the new MBP is a very polarizing and expensive product. There is probably an overall uptick of sales this quarter allowing both MSFT and Apple statements to be true. But if a lot of people are switching ecosystems then it's a concern to me. As for not revealing sales numbers, Apple doesn't reveal numbers for the Watch. Should we ignore any "propaganda" that Apple states about the Watch? Should we disqualify Cook's bullish statement on Watch sales he recently made? Or do you apply a different set of rules to Apple?
|
|
|
Post by sponge on Dec 12, 2016 7:42:49 GMT -8
Well sadly the momentum of last week has been broken. My gut says we make another move up mid week before closing flat week over week.
Regarding MacBook Pro, what I have been seeing is 20x more commercials for the surface. They are well done and much more informative about use compared to when first introduced.
I don't think Apple cares if people switch to the Surface. The amount is minimal. Apple is not going for market share. They are investing little in promotion or manufacturing. Those who want them, will pay more and just have to wait.
Their emphasis is on the iPhone and nothing else. Even services is not a priority. They see that area grow with little fanfare in promoting them.
And just to rant a little. They way over spent on Beats. Apple Music could have been released without using Beats.
Their Apple Maps 5 years later sucks. While in Dubai, I could not find my own hotel unless I spelled it perfectly, they had no directions available.
I used Google Maps and it worked perfectly.
|
|
|
Post by mace on Dec 12, 2016 7:55:42 GMT -8
...They way over spent on Beats. Apple Music could have been released without using Beats. Their Apple Maps 5 years later sucks. While in Dubai, I could not find my own hotel unless I spelled it perfectly, they had no directions available... Email Tim Cook about Eddy. Why is he still getting so much RSUs?
|
|
|
Post by sponge on Dec 12, 2016 8:22:30 GMT -8
I emailed him about Maps. It was an embarrassment to use Google Maps and help my taxi drivers get around.. Apple Maps could not even find the US Embassy and a major airport.
I don't think they care about spending too much on Beats. They have so much cash they can afford a mistake or two.
As far as shares, they do care about price. But they trapped by the market who has the same concerns like us.
|
|
|
Post by rickag on Dec 12, 2016 8:42:59 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by tuffett on Dec 12, 2016 9:06:43 GMT -8
I think the Maps effort has been focused around USA, China and Japan, which to be fair is probably the best decision if resources are limited. No doubt Google Maps is better as a global option, but I think Apple Maps competes well in areas with high share of iPhone users. This of course doesn't help when we travel, though.
If Apple wants to continue their double digit growth in emerging markets they need to get their services up to par in those areas.
|
|
|
Post by deasys on Dec 12, 2016 9:14:18 GMT -8
Why quote msft propaganda? The Appleinsider article states that they (msft) don't even reveal any actual numbers, so . . . Why quote AAPL propaganda? I consider any statements they make about switchers to be factually correct So do I. Let's compare the statements: Microsoft: "Our trade-in program for MacBooks was our best ever… leading more and more people to make the switch to Surface" Apple: "We are proud to tell you that so far our online store has had more orders for the new MacBook Pro than any other pro notebook before" I see a big difference in the factual quality of those two statements. Don't you? (Apple's is ultimately verifiable; Microsoft's is not…nor is it very meaningful.)
|
|
|
Post by tuffett on Dec 12, 2016 9:45:08 GMT -8
Why quote AAPL propaganda? I consider any statements they make about switchers to be factually correct So do I. Let's compare the statements: Microsoft: "Our trade-in program for MacBooks was our best ever… leading more and more people to make the switch to Surface" Apple: "We are proud to tell you that so far our online store has had more orders for the new MacBook Pro than any other pro notebook before" I see a big difference in the factual quality of those two statements. Don't you? (Apple's is ultimately verifiable; Microsoft's is not…nor is it very meaningful.) Did you miss this part? The Windows maker claims that its Surface lineup -- including the Surface Book and Surface Studio -- is having its best holiday season ever. I could also nitpick Apple's statement - for example, why did they not mention overall sales and have to specify online? Also, the Pro lineup has basically consolidated the MacBook lineup so it's obvious sales of "Pro" machines will be high. They changed the definition of "Pro" to include a greater percentage of their lineup. So no, I guess I don't see all that much difference.
|
|
|
Post by macster on Dec 12, 2016 10:32:12 GMT -8
Go to the store and check. Mac Pro delivery dates are 2-3 weeks. except for the low end model which is available to ship now. Watch delivery dates as of last week Dec. 20-26, basically al models. So if to extrapolate the facts, we assume they are selling well despite all the negative blogs.
my 2 cents
|
|
|
Post by hledgard on Dec 12, 2016 12:03:05 GMT -8
I have been using Apple Pay. I just do not see the real gain, especially reaching for a (large) iPhone 7 Plus. I still have to verify with the passcode for the phone or a fingerprint. The credit card is smaller, and the wallet it is in is smaller.
And virtually at all time one has to carry one's wallet.
So what is the big deal? This would never entice me to go Apple.
|
|
|
Post by Luckychoices on Dec 12, 2016 12:23:45 GMT -8
I have been using Apple Pay. I just do not see the real gain, especially reaching for a (large) iPhone 7 Plus. I still have to verify with the passcode for the phone or a fingerprint. The credit card is smaller, and the wallet it is in is smaller. And virtually at all time one has to carry one's wallet. So what is the big deal? This would never entice me to go Apple. I don't think Apple Pay would entice ANYONE to buy an iPhone JUST to use Apple Pay. That said, my wife and I REALLY LIKED using Apple Pay with our iPhones. And if reaching for your phone is an inconvenience for you, perhaps you should consider getting an Apple Watch. My wife and I LOVE using Apple Pay with our Apple Watches.
|
|
|
Post by mace on Dec 12, 2016 12:26:34 GMT -8
I have been using Apple Pay. I just do not see the real gain, especially reaching for a (large) iPhone 7 Plus. I still have to verify with the passcode for the phone or a fingerprint. The credit card is smaller, and the wallet it is in is smaller. And virtually at all time one has to carry one's wallet. So what is the big deal? This would never entice me to go Apple. I use Watch.
|
|
platon
Member
"All we can know is that we know nothing. And that's the height of human wisdom.? Tolstoy
Posts: 3,944
|
Post by platon on Dec 12, 2016 12:28:08 GMT -8
You also can use your Apple Watch even if you leave your phone at home. Then you don't have to get either one (phone or wallet) out
|
|
|
Post by mace on Dec 12, 2016 12:32:07 GMT -8
Which current Apple apps are critical to autonomous cars?
Maps iCloud Photos FaceTime iMessage Pay
What else?
|
|
coma
Member
Posts: 522
|
Post by coma on Dec 12, 2016 12:52:21 GMT -8
Which current Apple apps are critical to autonomous cars? Maps iCloud Photos FaceTime iMessage Pay What else? Siri . . .
|
|
|
Post by hledgard on Dec 12, 2016 13:12:53 GMT -8
You also can use your Apple Watch even if you leave your phone at home. Then you don't have to get either one (phone or wallet) out Indeed - the watch works.
|
|
|
Post by carbonate24 on Dec 12, 2016 14:19:40 GMT -8
I have been using Apple Pay. I just do not see the real gain, especially reaching for a (large) iPhone 7 Plus. I still have to verify with the passcode for the phone or a fingerprint. The credit card is smaller, and the wallet it is in is smaller. And virtually at all time one has to carry one's wallet. So what is the big deal? This would never entice me to go Apple. Convenience is only part of the equation. Apple pay never transmits your actual credit card number to the merchant, thus your info can't be stolen if/when a merchant is hacked. The EMV chip cards are a good alternative to swiping, however, your CC number is still exposed when you take it out of your wallet, and you have to wait 8-10 seconds (although this wait time has slowly gotten better) before removing your card from the reader. I don't know how common it is, but I just had someone in front of me at a checkout forget their card in the reader, as it was taking very long. Apple pay completes the transaction within a second, and with an iphone7, the fingerprint reader should be very quick. Are you aware that by holding your phone near the payment terminal, your iphone will automatically wake up to the payment screen asking for your fingerprint? Doesn't get much easier, accept for perhaps the watch, as others have noted. I think the question is not "what is the big deal" but rather "why wouldn't you use it whenever possible?"
|
|
|
Post by aaplcrazie on Dec 12, 2016 15:14:59 GMT -8
Well sadly the momentum of last week has been broken. My gut says we make another move up mid week before closing flat week over week. Regarding MacBook Pro, what I have been seeing is 20x more commercials for the surface. They are well done and much more informative about use compared to when first introduced. I don't think Apple cares if people switch to the Surface. The amount is minimal. Apple is not going for market share. They are investing little in promotion or manufacturing. Those who want them, will pay more and just have to wait. Their emphasis is on the iPhone and nothing else. Even services is not a priority. They see that area grow with little fanfare in promoting them. And just to rant a little. They way over spent on Beats. Apple Music could have been released without using Beats. Their Apple Maps 5 years later sucks. While in Dubai, I could not find my own hotel unless I spelled it perfectly, they had no directions available. I used Google Maps and it worked perfectly. Sponge Send a note to Tim, no excuse. I did the same thing in Ireland typed in DART Stations near me and it could not find the one right down the street. Got a response from the maps Team and it was corrected.
|
|
Since84
Moderator
To infinity and beyond!
Posts: 3,933
|
Post by Since84 on Dec 12, 2016 15:39:09 GMT -8
I have been using Apple Pay. I just do not see the real gain, especially reaching for a (large) iPhone 7 Plus. I still have to verify with the passcode for the phone or a fingerprint. The credit card is smaller, and the wallet it is in is smaller. And virtually at all time one has to carry one's wallet. So what is the big deal? This would never entice me to go Apple. IMHO Pay transactions process significantly faster then Credit Card transactions -- particularly the chip cards. Most of the time the only wait is for the receipt to print. Don't know where you keep your phone, but pulling my phone out is also quicker then getting a credit card out of my wallet. Often the phone is already in my hand. But that's me.
|
|
|
Post by mace on Dec 12, 2016 16:32:20 GMT -8
... I think the question is not "what is the big deal" but rather "why wouldn't you use it whenever possible?" Consumers still don't really appreciate the benefits of Pay. Moreover, many merchants are resisting it because they can't steal our identities, and some who are allowing Pay throw wrenches at it by requiring you to sign. Google and Samsung are trying to muddle the waters. Just because Pay is in the best interest of the consumers, they would appreciate it, sad... the best doesn't always win... hopefully this is one of the rare occasion that best win.
|
|
|
Post by tuffett on Dec 12, 2016 16:54:18 GMT -8
The US is way behind in terms of credit card processing. Tap to pay credit cards are just as fast as Apple Pay. I still use Apple Pay for the security advantages but it really doesnt save me any time.
|
|
Ted
fire starter
Posts: 882
|
Post by Ted on Dec 12, 2016 17:12:10 GMT -8
Why quote msft propaganda? The Appleinsider article states that they (msft) don't even reveal any actual numbers, so . . . Why quote AAPL propaganda? I consider any statements they make about switchers to be factually correct, just as I do here. Frankly I'm not surprised given the fact that so many people were waiting to see what Apple would come out with and the new MBP is a very polarizing and expensive product. There is probably an overall uptick of sales this quarter allowing both MSFT and Apple statements to be true. But if a lot of people are switching ecosystems then it's a concern to me. As for not revealing sales numbers, Apple doesn't reveal numbers for the Watch. Should we ignore any "propaganda" that Apple states about the Watch? Should we disqualify Cook's bullish statement on Watch sales he recently made? Or do you apply a different set of rules to Apple? Here's how I see it. Yes, I apply different standards to Apple and Microsoft because they're fundamentally different. Apple sells millions of laptops a year. Microsoft, not so much. So a msft guy claiming great Surface sales relative to their past (probably anemic) sales doesn't tell us as much as Phil claiming great sales for the pro. That's all. Like you, I believe both companies probably have legit reasons to crow about the sales of some of their products; I just think there's a large difference in scale here.
|
|
Ted
fire starter
Posts: 882
|
Post by Ted on Dec 12, 2016 18:27:32 GMT -8
A pretty good article on the subject here. It does appear there may be some cause for concern re: letting the mac slide and stagnate and letting msft steal some share. www.fool.com/investing/2016/12/12/microsoft-has-fighting-words-for-apple.aspxMy point - from the article: "It's absolutely true that the Mac has lost market share in the past two consecutive quarters, ending a years-long string of slowly chipping away at the Windows empire. While Microsoft doesn't quantify its claim on Mac switchers, the recent third-party estimates on the global PC market do give Microsoft's assertion some credibility. But it's also true that the Mac business is significantly larger than the Surface business (expectedly so). Microsoft sold $925 million worth of Surface devices last quarter, compared to the $5.7 billion in Macs that Apple sold. Both product events took place after the close of the quarter. If Microsoft booked the best month ever, it sounds as if it may enjoy the best quarter for Surface ever."
|
|
|
Post by Luckychoices on Dec 12, 2016 20:54:10 GMT -8
A pretty good article on the subject here. It does appear there may be some cause for concern re: letting the mac slide and stagnate and letting msft steal some share. www.fool.com/investing/2016/12/12/microsoft-has-fighting-words-for-apple.aspxMy point - from the article: "It's absolutely true that the Mac has lost market share in the past two consecutive quarters, ending a years-long string of slowly chipping away at the Windows empire. While Microsoft doesn't quantify its claim on Mac switchers, the recent third-party estimates on the global PC market do give Microsoft's assertion some credibility. But it's also true that the Mac business is significantly larger than the Surface business (expectedly so). Microsoft sold $925 million worth of Surface devices last quarter, compared to the $5.7 billion in Macs that Apple sold. Both product events took place after the close of the quarter. If Microsoft booked the best month ever, it sounds as if it may enjoy the best quarter for Surface ever." No quibble about the article, Ted, but I hate it when articles are titled like that: Microsoft Has Fighting Words for AppleConsumers MAY BE switching to Microsoft en masse.Yes, they MAY BE. But I'd rather tech writers didn't use weasel words and instead boldly proclaimed, "Consumers ARE switching to Microsoft en masse".The author would then have a chance for his statement to be right or wrong but at least they would be making a statement with some conviction.
|
|
|
Post by hledgard on Dec 12, 2016 22:18:34 GMT -8
I have been using Apple Pay. I just do not see the real gain, especially reaching for a (large) iPhone 7 Plus. I still have to verify with the passcode for the phone or a fingerprint. The credit card is smaller, and the wallet it is in is smaller. And virtually at all time one has to carry one's wallet. So what is the big deal? This would never entice me to go Apple. IMHO Pay transactions process significantly faster then Credit Card transactions -- particularly the chip cards. Most of the time the only wait is for the receipt to print. Don't know where you keep your phone, but pulling my phone out is also quicker then getting a credit card out of my wallet. Often the phone is already in my hand. But that's me. The Apple Pay issue for me is the size of my phone, the 7. I do really like using the 7 a lot, and it is an outstanding design. But as a man, it is a bit cumbersome to carry. I work out a lot, and it is a nuisance in my pocket. When I wear a T-neck, there is no easy place to put it. My previous phone was a 5C. Loved it. Of course the big screen of the 7 is great, but for Apple Pay, the 5C is a much much better size. I also think the security issue is way overblown. I have no password on my phone or computer. iTunes yes, and would have one even if Apple did not require it. Without the watch, I think Apple Pay is indeed cool (a good thing), but not so good as I thought it would be.
|
|