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Post by appledoc on Dec 31, 2012 13:38:07 GMT -8
I just saw this quote and thought it is how media has portrayed Apple over the past few months: "Apple up 31% this year, the most disappointing 31% gain of all-time." Pretty much. It's been a heck of a ride for traders though.
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Post by capablanca on Dec 31, 2012 13:40:38 GMT -8
Think AAPL got a lot of help today from funds doing a spot of end of year window dressing. On any other day the Fiscal Farce would have trashed the market. Yes.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2012 13:46:35 GMT -8
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Dec 31, 2012 13:54:26 GMT -8
Lovey has a site that she tracks the futures. I already look at to many sites and I have never been one to give much faith in the futures. Yup. It's a pre-market weathervane, is all. And it really won't be of much indicative value until late tomorrow/early Wednesday.
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Post by mbeauch on Dec 31, 2012 14:02:22 GMT -8
Lovey has a site that she tracks the futures. I already look at to many sites and I have never been one to give much faith in the futures. Yup. It's a pre-market weathervane, is all. And it really won't be of much indicative value until late tomorrow/early Wednesday. I only brought it up because the numbers were so big.
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Post by Red Shirted Ensign on Dec 31, 2012 14:19:54 GMT -8
I just saw this quote and thought it is how media has portrayed Apple over the past few months: "Apple up 31% this year, the most disappointing 31% gain of all-time." And a 31% increase on today's close gets us to 699......let's call it 700...and let's call that a virtual ATH just for fun.. Aren't numbers fun???
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Post by tuffett on Dec 31, 2012 14:23:03 GMT -8
Promising, but we've seen this before. I'll remain very cautiously optimistic.
Happy new year to all!
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Dec 31, 2012 14:30:16 GMT -8
530ish has been resistance since Dec 13 or so. For the moment, we're above a key psychological level.
Also, looks like at least one of what iPad would call a "smooshie" is resolving to the upside!
At the very least, this isn't what a stock destined to crash below 500 is supposed to look like.
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Post by prazan on Dec 31, 2012 14:41:31 GMT -8
Yup. It's a pre-market weathervane, is all. And it really won't be of much indicative value until late tomorrow/early Wednesday. I only brought it up because the numbers were so big. Is this the site you were thinking of? www.investing.com/indices/indices-futures
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Dec 31, 2012 15:00:11 GMT -8
See, now things have "reset", though since tomorrow is a market holiday, it's really pretty meaningless unless it was something on the order of -2% or something (and even then, subject to news and how the regular market participants react).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2012 15:00:56 GMT -8
Thanks for the link - was a very good piece.
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Post by mbeauch on Dec 31, 2012 15:20:47 GMT -8
Thanks for the link - was a very good piece. he uses what Asymco has pointed out long time ago, the cash price is crazy low. In 3 weeks the cash pile gets bigger.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Dec 31, 2012 15:26:20 GMT -8
Pretty good for a WS guy.
Telling Apple what it should do with its cash - eh. Note to Haverty - Honey Bunches of Cashâ„¢ are a little "trapped" overseas and there's no signs of that changing. Also, cash may be "weakness" to certain greedier shareholders but it's all kinds of strength to the going concern.
Apple could also be needing many billions of _domestic_ cash (a much more limited supply) going forward. Apple could well be throwing billions of dollars into US-and-elsewhere-based manufacturing (assembly, chip fabs, you name it) before long.
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Post by phoebear611 on Dec 31, 2012 15:38:13 GMT -8
Before I forget - a very happy, healthy, and prosperous New Year to all of you! 2013 will be a great year - 13 is my lucky number and I can just feel it....so get ready!
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Post by rosie on Dec 31, 2012 15:41:56 GMT -8
Happy 2013 back to you, Phoebes, and to the entire board of posters, lurkers, friends, and contrarians!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2012 15:46:34 GMT -8
Pretty good for a WS guy. Telling Apple what it should do with its cash - eh. Note to Haverty - Honey Bunches of Cash™ are a little "trapped" overseas and there's no signs of that changing. Also, cash may be "weakness" to certain greedier shareholders but it's all kinds of strength to the going concern. Apple could also be needing many billions of _domestic_ cash (a much more limited supply) going forward. Apple could well be throwing billions of dollars into US-and-elsewhere-based manufacturing (assembly, chip fabs, you name it) before long. I think he was suggesting apple should to a bond offer in the US equivalent to its overseas cash hoard (let's say $100 billion for a nice round number), use that $100 billion for a share buy back, and pay the interest on that bond offer (he was suggesting 1% interest - so $1 billion a year on our hypothetical $100 billion bond offer) out of domestic US earnings. I think it's a great idea for apple to explore - it unlocks the value of all that overseas cash, without any tax hit at all.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Dec 31, 2012 16:08:50 GMT -8
Except the $100B is then tied up in company stock - which Apple could always reissue, but then why have a buyback?
Apple needs some quantum of cash for leverage in all of its various "cash depots", even if it can actually deal with all of its cash needs from cash flow. Forward-thinking companies might not need to have $50B+ continuously on hand as cash/equivalents. But who's to say they don't? Apple is a different kind of company with different kinds of needs.
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Post by kloot on Dec 31, 2012 16:17:20 GMT -8
Think AAPL got a lot of help today from funds doing a spot of end of year window dressing. On any other day the Fiscal Farce would have trashed the market. why? with the way AAPL has been acting for 3 months, wouldn't they NOT want to show it in their holdings?
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Dec 31, 2012 16:27:45 GMT -8
Fiscal slope horse-trading gets more LOL with reported (not confirmed?) delay on the sequester. 8 more weeks of Congressional infighting!
AAPL is unmoved AH.
Good sign, though it's still very, very early. If I had to guess, the market has largely priced in the "muddle through" scenario by now...tax selling's over, time to get on with a new year!
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Post by Mav on Dec 31, 2012 17:28:17 GMT -8
Uh burgess, just to double-check, we ARE having a perfectly friendly disagreement, right.
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Post by Mav on Dec 31, 2012 20:19:05 GMT -8
Fiscal slope update (gotta love reporter feeds on Twitter for stuff like this): Apparently the Senate will pass the fiscal slope band-aid, the only question seems to be how big a majority there is in the Senate. I'm hardly an expert on this but looks like if the Senate passes and there's a coalition on the House side, we'll be over this latest mini-hurdle by tomorrow or very soon after when the House presumably votes.
So, seems like clearer sailing to measure market composure on the first trading day of 2013, if nothing else.
Amusingly enough, Jan 1 being a trading holiday provides considerable cover for Congress to go over the fiscal slope - sort of - with pretty much zero consequences. And so the Senate is setting up for a vote on New Year's (per the reporter tweets) _after_ the fireworks and ball drop and everything. Is it a little mean of me to say, I'm not sorry our elected representatives are losing some New Year's sleep and celebration time over this mess when it was of their own creation to start with?
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Post by mbeauch on Dec 31, 2012 20:30:12 GMT -8
Yeah, I saw the update also. We shall see. I think it is a kick the can deal. Right now that will have to do.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Dec 31, 2012 20:31:55 GMT -8
It's totally a kick the can deal. These days, it's foolish to assume Congress is capable of more. Sadly, in line with pretty much every other situation worldwide where structural reforms are needed. But hey, if it helps the markets! (Happy New Year to you and yours and everybody at AFB2, btw! Got a little topic going in the Peanut Gallery.)
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Post by appledoc on Dec 31, 2012 21:25:01 GMT -8
Happy New Year! Here's to making way more money in 2013 than we did in 2012.
Off to bed early for my first 5k of 2013.
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Post by Mav on Dec 31, 2012 21:29:13 GMT -8
? ... Oh...you mean run!
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Post by roni on Dec 31, 2012 22:13:21 GMT -8
Great year.
How about a 2012 wrap up thread - I really didn't see any category appropriate for it
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2012 22:23:15 GMT -8
Uh burgess, just to double-check, we ARE having a perfectly friendly disagreement, right. Of course - healthy disagreements should be encouraged around here. I'm in favor of a large scale buyback primarily as a means to create a meaningful increase in EPS.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2012 22:31:29 GMT -8
Fiscal slope update (gotta love reporter feeds on Twitter for stuff like this): Apparently the Senate will pass the fiscal slope band-aid, the only question seems to be how big a majority there is in the Senate. I'm hardly an expert on this but looks like if the Senate passes and there's a coalition on the House side, we'll be over this latest mini-hurdle by tomorrow or very soon after when the House presumably votes. So, seems like clearer sailing to measure market composure on the first trading day of 2013, if nothing else. Amusingly enough, Jan 1 being a trading holiday provides considerable cover for Congress to go over the fiscal slope - sort of - with pretty much zero consequences. And so the Senate is setting up for a vote on New Year's (per the reporter tweets) _after_ the fireworks and ball drop and everything. Is it a little mean of me to say, I'm not sorry our elected representatives are losing some New Year's sleep and celebration time over this mess when it was of their own creation to start with? Are house republicans going to vote for the likely senate plan? Will Boehner call a vote that democrats and some moderate republicans can pass as is - or will it get sent back to congress with large amendments? Will the next congress be any friendlier? Or worse??
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Post by lovemyipad on Dec 31, 2012 22:58:24 GMT -8
Lovey, look at the futures on your sites please. I looked at Bloomberg and that can't be right. Not sure what you were seeing? Try here: www.finviz.com/futures.ashx
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Mav
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Post by Mav on Dec 31, 2012 23:11:26 GMT -8
Part 1 of a Happier New Year for the markets? Senate passed fiscal slope band-aid by a HUGE margin, 89-8. I'm no expert but I'd have to say the House now has its "marching orders" as it were. Ready the can for the time-honored Ceremony of Kicking!
I have little sympathy for the Senate's lack of sleep tonight.
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