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Post by aaplsauce on Feb 28, 2022 22:05:01 GMT -8
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,335
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Post by Dave on Mar 1, 2022 3:26:54 GMT -8
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Post by Luckychoices on Mar 1, 2022 4:47:37 GMT -8
Thanks for highlighting Bart Yee's informative comment's, Dave. All of the responses comments were great to read and I especially appreciated Fred Stein's short thank you to Bart: "Thanks Bart for the facts that lead to this irony. NSWF had a chance to vote (by selling shares) against a murderer who cost them $B’s. Instead they vote against a plan to pay Tim Cook a tiny fraction of the $B’s that he and his team made for them.Let’s hope they join the sanctions. Better late than never."
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,335
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Post by Dave on Mar 1, 2022 6:06:01 GMT -8
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chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,438
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Post by chinacat on Mar 1, 2022 7:01:00 GMT -8
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,241
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Post by JDSoCal on Mar 1, 2022 8:34:59 GMT -8
Thanks for highlighting Bart Yee's informative comment's, Dave. All of the responses comments were great to read and I especially appreciated Fred Stein's short thank you to Bart: "Thanks Bart for the facts that lead to this irony. NSWF had a chance to vote (by selling shares) against a murderer who cost them $B’s. Instead they vote against a plan to pay Tim Cook a tiny fraction of the $B’s that he and his team made for them.Let’s hope they join the sanctions. Better late than never." How dare Norway try to out-virtue signal Americans! Well, since Apple hasn't divested iOS from Russia, and while we are all judging decency via virtue signaling (as opposed to actual outcomes), maybe the "I stand by Ukraine" types should divest from their AAPL shares? That would show Putin! Of course since Putin and his cronies are worth like 12 figures each, it's the average Russian - already living a nasty, brutish, and short life - who will get hurt by sanctions. Screw them, man! Hey, while we are attacking Russia, maybe we should throw all Russian-Americans into internment camps! Meanwhile the USA buys 800,000 barrels of oil from Putin every day.
This is all silly Kabuki theater. Foreign policy by social media.
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chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,438
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Post by chinacat on Mar 1, 2022 9:12:15 GMT -8
How dare Norway try to out-virtue signal Americans! Well, since Apple hasn't divested iOS from Russia, and while we are all judging decency via virtue signaling (as opposed to actual outcomes), maybe the "I stand by Ukraine" types should divest from their AAPL shares? That would show Putin! Of course since Putin and his cronies are worth like 12 figures each, it's the average Russian - already living a nasty, brutish, and short life - who will get hurt by sanctions. Screw them, man! Hey, while we are attacking Russia, maybe we should throw all Russian-Americans into internment camps! Meanwhile the USA buys 800,000 barrels of oil from Putin every day.
This is all silly Kabuki theater. Foreign policy by social media. You are always so confident about criticizing others, JD, so why don’t you reveal your own brilliant plan for resolving this situation, or would that expose you to similar critiques?
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Post by silkstone on Mar 1, 2022 10:22:54 GMT -8
It’s easy to sit back in the classroom with your feet up on the desk and criticize while others try to solve a real problem, especially when the worst outcome for you is a paper cut.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,241
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Post by JDSoCal on Mar 1, 2022 10:23:21 GMT -8
How dare Norway try to out-virtue signal Americans! Well, since Apple hasn't divested iOS from Russia, and while we are all judging decency via virtue signaling (as opposed to actual outcomes), maybe the "I stand by Ukraine" types should divest from their AAPL shares? That would show Putin! Of course since Putin and his cronies are worth like 12 figures each, it's the average Russian - already living a nasty, brutish, and short life - who will get hurt by sanctions. Screw them, man! Hey, while we are attacking Russia, maybe we should throw all Russian-Americans into internment camps! Meanwhile the USA buys 800,000 barrels of oil from Putin every day.
This is all silly Kabuki theater. Foreign policy by social media. You are always so confident about criticizing others, JD, so why don’t you reveal your own brilliant plan for resolving this situation, or would that expose you to similar critiques? Well, do I get to go back in time and stop the Deep State geniuses from trying to expand NATO to Russia's borders, and some even pushing Ukraine to go nuclear? And supporting the 2014 Ukrainian coup to further alienate Russia? Or do I just have to clean up this steaming pile in real time? There are no easy fixes. The west does not get to dictate to a nuclear power as it would to a tinpot ruler in Libya or Iraq (and we saw how well that dictating went). There must be some concessions to end this conflict sooner rather than never. OK, first off, with a few strokes of his pen, the President could set an example for the world and really hurt Putin by immediately 1) ceasing all purchases of Russian oil; 2) Re-approving the Keystone XL pipeline; 3) Re-opening federal lands to new oil and gas leases; 4) make a commitment to Europe to ship any excess oil and gas production to replace Russian imports; 5) Call for a "moonshot" policy to radically increase the number of nuclear power plants in the US, including export of US nuclear technologies (Russia is the world's top importer of nuke plants); 6) State that while the US is on Ukraine's side in this conflict, it does not support Ukraine's entrance into NATO and will veto any attempts to do so; 7) Limit all aid to Ukraine to humanitarian - no arms. This all could have been avoided by not trying to expand NATO to Russia's borders - The meddlers in the US State Department wrote checks in Ukraine they can't possibly cover. Ukraine should resent the west for using it as a pawn. And by not funding the Putin regime by sending him billions of dollars for oil every year (instead of Germany using that money to live up to its NATO obligations), we aren't here right now. So you reverse those policies. But it is too late to really reverse what is happening in Ukraine, which should have remained neutral the last 20 years, instead of being rooted on by the west to antagonize a neighbor it can't possibly defeat. There is a paradox in arming Ukraine right now: The more that the west arms Ukraine to fight, the more Putin will want to fight on. The quicker that Ukraine (and the west) capitulates, the sooner Putin will have achieved his aim of neutralizing the Donbas and will likely withdraw. This is a fait accompli. We cannot possibly join this fight militarily, and even sending Ukraine arms risks escalating a war with the country that has more nukes than us or any other. So we have to let Putin save face by taking Donbas. He will get that "win" and agree to withdraw - if we agree Ukraine can never join NATO. Alas, we (i.e., Biden admin) will double down on stupid, so we are left with symbolic gestures that will do little other than hurt the average Russian - and the average Ukrainian. This is simply western arrogance that we can dictate self defense policies to the rest of the world, while we reserve the right to invade countries halfway around the world from us with questionable justification. Seriously, someone tell me, objectively, how our invasion of Iraq gives us moral superiority to tell Putin what he can do wrt countries on his own borders? We do this because we can. Same with Putin.
This is not some justification or admiration of the guy. Putin is obviously paranoid if he thinks NATO would ever invade him. But Russia trusted the west twice last century and paid dearly for it. And he really does think, "fuck the US, if Ukraine were Mexico, they would never tolerate this shit." And he is right about that (although this admin does seem more concerned about Ukraine's borders than ours, but I digress).
One reason that I find virtue signaling so exasperating is that it is mindless. Saying we "hate" Putin is an emotional response. He is what he is, and I blame the zookeepers, not the escaped lion. Employing foreign policy should be done dispassionately, and using empathy to understand the actors better. What we "want" is just being arrogant, and that thinking is what got us here in the first place. Russia has more nukes than us so we cannot dictate to Putin, pure and simple. It is this loss of (perceived) power that the "international community" mucky-mucks resent even more than Putin's actions. They were simply wrong that there was some new, post-war world order. They made the same dumb mistakes of the 1930's, trusting diplomacy and good faith, with no real leverage. Except this time, the bad guy(s) have nukes. Putin didn't go crazy. He was always this guy. It's the west that went crazy thinking that same ol' good faith diplomacy of the 1930's would work this time.
So there is no perfect answer where we get what we want and Putin gets nothing. Maybe if he were assassinated, that could change the dynamic. But I'd imagine his personal security is better than US presidents, not worse. All I know is, we support much worse shit in other areas of the world than what Putin is trying to do (ask the Yeminis about that - or the Uyghurs). Because it is in our interests to do so. But sometimes, we overstep. A lot of the time, actually. The bottom line is we have no magic laser (unless there is some stealth drone over Russia rn that I am unaware of). We have to let things play out due to our terrible policies leading up to this. My goal would be to not escalate tensions with a nuclear power and to protect the dollar. And become energy independent. Might want to expedite unwinding other dependencies, like getting TSMC, inter alia, the hell out of Taiwan. Drill baby drill! Go AAPL?
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Post by duckpins on Mar 1, 2022 12:20:28 GMT -8
Who was president in 2014? Who was mucking around there with the CIA and hooking up with Ukranian Oligarchs and gangsters for personal gain? I saw enough the Ukrainians on Dexter to know that we should stay away!
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Post by aaplcrazie on Mar 1, 2022 13:09:47 GMT -8
Apple Halts All Sales From Online Store in Russia [Updated] Apple today stopped all product sales from its online website in Russia, which means customers in Russia can no longer purchase Macs, iPhones, iPads, and other Apple devices. Attempting to make a purchase from the Russia store results in a "delivery unavailable" result when trying to add a product to the online cart. www.macrumors.com/2022/03/01/apple-stops-product-sales-in-russia/
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Post by CdnPhoto on Mar 1, 2022 13:13:56 GMT -8
Apple Halts All Sales From Online Store in Russia [Updated] Apple today stopped all product sales from its online website in Russia, which means customers in Russia can no longer purchase Macs, iPhones, iPads, and other Apple devices. Attempting to make a purchase from the Russia store results in a "delivery unavailable" result when trying to add a product to the online cart. www.macrumors.com/2022/03/01/apple-stops-product-sales-in-russia/Not surprising, especially with the value of the Ruble dropping so much.
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chinacat
Moderator
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Posts: 4,438
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Post by chinacat on Mar 1, 2022 13:20:45 GMT -8
You are always so confident about criticizing others, JD, so why don’t you reveal your own brilliant plan for resolving this situation, or would that expose you to similar critiques? Well, do I get to go back in time and stop the Deep State geniuses from trying to expand NATO to Russia's borders, and some even pushing Ukraine to go nuclear?… Thank you for your thoughts, JD. So in sum, you have no actionable plan that would be a reasonable response in an attempt to thwart Russia’s current military invasion and annexation of Ukraine provinces, unless we can develop a Time Machine to undo what you consider to be political errors in the past. I am sure that Vlad would be glad to hear that.
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Post by macster on Mar 1, 2022 14:10:10 GMT -8
Apple Halts All Sales From Online Store in Russia [Updated] Apple today stopped all product sales from its online website in Russia, which means customers in Russia can no longer purchase Macs, iPhones, iPads, and other Apple devices. Attempting to make a purchase from the Russia store results in a "delivery unavailable" result when trying to add a product to the online cart. www.macrumors.com/2022/03/01/apple-stops-product-sales-in-russia/Not surprising, especially with the value of the Ruble dropping so much. Obviously transactions cannot be performed anyway as the internet and money transfers in and out have been cut off.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,241
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Post by JDSoCal on Mar 1, 2022 16:37:03 GMT -8
Well, do I get to go back in time and stop the Deep State geniuses from trying to expand NATO to Russia's borders, and some even pushing Ukraine to go nuclear?… Thank you for your thoughts, JD. So in sum, you have no actionable plan that would be a reasonable response in an attempt to thwart Russia’s current military invasion and annexation of Ukraine provinces, unless we can develop a Time Machine to undo what you consider to be political errors in the past. I am sure that Vlad would be glad to hear that. That's me, the Russian agent.
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Post by macster on Mar 1, 2022 17:11:35 GMT -8
Thank you for your thoughts, JD. So in sum, you have no actionable plan that would be a reasonable response in an attempt to thwart Russia’s current military invasion and annexation of Ukraine provinces, unless we can develop a Time Machine to undo what you consider to be political errors in the past. I am sure that Vlad would be glad to hear that. That's me, the Russian agent. We have a IMF mission if you chose to accept. or Maybe send a few copies of Tom Clancy’s novels to Putin’s Advisors or Western Intel agencies, all the answers are there. The narratives that Putin will suffer a coup or get shot is already planned for by the ever cautious Peter the Great pretender. Or maybe he’s paranoid of Covid because of his reported serious bout with it. Let’s hope there are brave advisors so this all ends with Putin gone. www.aol.com/news/photos-putin-keeps-distance-during-194633322.html
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