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Post by aaplsauce on Mar 9, 2022 22:06:29 GMT -8
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chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
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Post by chinacat on Mar 10, 2022 6:45:57 GMT -8
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,867
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Post by 4aapl on Mar 10, 2022 8:49:10 GMT -8
These days are such a roller coster ride.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,241
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Post by JDSoCal on Mar 10, 2022 8:53:13 GMT -8
An interesting Verge article, but the headline is probably wrong. Apple still tells customers what they want, but its diktats are probably more informed these days. Jobs believed that he knew better about what was innovative than the average user (often employing the apocryphal "faster horse" Henry Ford quote), because innovation is, by definition, non-obvious. And Steve was right most of time. IMO the interesting takeaway from that Verge article - which it should be noted has a know-it-all, 20/20 hindsight tone from a writer who has never run a successful consumer electronics company - is that Johnny Ive's aesthetic became too powerful at the expense of function. Maybe. Steve probably had a better synergy with Ive. Not necessarily a knock on Tim, because Steve was one of one. Or I guess two of two at Apple. Steve said his job was to say no not yes, and he probably was a better check on Ive's artistic imperatives than Tim, because Ive was the bigger star at Apple once Steve passed. Kind of reminds me of the knock on George Patton. A peerless tactical general, but Ike wouldn't let him near the strategic policy and politics level. Although we can probably all agree Patton was probably right about the Russians!
There is a link in the Verge article that made me think the iMac might be a dead end. If Apple admitted the trash can was a mistake because they "designed (them)selves into a bit of a thermal corner", maybe the same can be said of the iMac, which is supposed to have desktop powers but has a closer thermal footprint to a laptop than a desktop. Mac Studio's external CPU might be replace it? Obviously it's less elegant to have a separate box for the CPU, but far more room for powerful and hotter processors. Ironically, this small form factor (relative to a comparable Wintel) is one of the reasons I am considering it (to lie on my expensive Mid Century desk). I guess Apple could continue to grow its product line larger and larger, but that gets father and farther away from the Jobs canon. We're at the point where I can't keep track of all the Apple products again if a friend asked me about them. Recall Steve coming back to Apple and slashing all the product lines to 4. We're up to 6 models of just Macs. Anyone know what percentage of Mac sales the iMac represents? Seems like a (relatively) lower margin product. Certainly lower than the Studio. Probably the closest that Apple will ever come to a TV.
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Post by kpas1 on Mar 10, 2022 9:46:53 GMT -8
What's up with the AAPL underperformance today? Not noticing any Apple-specific bad news on the wire, but we're down about 4%, much more than any of the indices. Someone signaling here is your entry point?
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Post by archibaldtuttle on Mar 10, 2022 10:46:23 GMT -8
Assuming we close below 163 tomorrow, it will be AAPL's 5th down week in a row. The last time that happened was May 2021, and it represented the bottom.
However, 5 down weeks in a row also happened in late 2018, where there were 8 down weeks in a row, followed by 1 up week and 3 more intense down weeks.
So... who knows!
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Post by duckpins on Mar 10, 2022 10:47:44 GMT -8
"What's up with the AAPL underperformance today? Not noticing any Apple-specific bad news on the wire, but we're down about 4%, much more than any of the indices. Someone signaling here is your entry point?"
Hard to get excited about chips. Sell the news day?No 27 inch iMac? Can one make the old 30 inch Cinema display work with this new Terminator Mac Studio?
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JDSoCal
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Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,241
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Post by JDSoCal on Mar 10, 2022 11:09:00 GMT -8
That AMD Threadripper 3990X is currently selling for $8,365.47 on Amazon. Just the CPU! No motherboard or RAM or video card! More like WalletRaper! Maybe even more importantly (considering energy prices are spiking) are the power numbers:
Apple isn't just competing with AMD's CPUs. It also wants to eliminate AMD's discrete video cards (used in Mac Pros), which are power hogs as well:
The RTX 3090 is a discrete GPU (must be added on to an existing system) and it is selling for like $1500 - if you can find one. But the numbers aren't really explained above. This GPU is a 350W discrete unit that plugs into a PCI slot, so that does not count the power for the computer itself! Nvidia recommends a 750W power supply to power the actual computer. The main market for this card is gaming, but content pros use them too. This is the way I was going to go in my PC build. But boy was I dreading my electric bill (recall I live in Commiefornia where unicorn and pixie fart energy is very expensive). The "current" Mac Pro uses a HUGE and HOT professional (non gaming) video card by AMD’s Radeon. "Professional" means you can charge double for it, BTW. The top ones are the PRO W6000X series (starts at $3500). It uses 300 watts just by itself, except for the double card version that "only" uses 400 watts. The latter cards are $5000-$6000. How much of that money goes to AMD? Do we see where this is all headed? Into our pockets instead of AMD's (and Nvidia's)! Here's what they look like inside a Mac Pro: Giant mofos that require giant fans. I think the new Mac Pro will not require any of that space, because those AMD cards will not be inside them anymore.
In June, Apple will likely release a Mac Pro with 4 of the Maxes (or two Ultras) connected together for a world-beating machine that no longer requires a discrete video card(s) that is a huge, hot power hog. And it will kick ass. Apple teased it in its Peek Performance event (“for another day"), and Gurman predicted it last October: And this is where Apple Silicon begins really turn green. 🤑
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Post by Odd-Lot Richard on Mar 10, 2022 11:13:45 GMT -8
What's up with the AAPL underperformance today? Not noticing any Apple-specific bad news on the wire, but we're down about 4%, much more than any of the indices. My guess is dumb money exiting to go into Amazon before the splits and the completion of the sub-1% buybacks. Someone signaling here is your entry point? If only I had spare cash…
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,867
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Post by 4aapl on Mar 10, 2022 11:46:34 GMT -8
Anyone know what percentage of Mac sales the iMac represents? Seems like a (relatively) lower margin product. Certainly lower than the Studio. Probably the closest that Apple will ever come to a TV. I don't see them getting rid of the iMac. In theory it looks like an overlap, that you could just get a mini or studio, and a display. And there is a pricing overlap. But the iMac makes it easier, having 2 less cords, and less clutter. Plus then Apple is selling the whole unit, instead of most of the display sales at that price point going to other venders. The two main reasons to keep the product line simple is to make the choice on what to buy easier (no "I'll think about it and decide which one is for me") and to limit production and inventory problems. But Apple has also shown that production/inventory isn't really an issue, coming out with the iMac and most other machines in multiple colors. Sure, they also had this back in some of the CRT iMacs (ie Dalmatian, etc), but it went away for the G4 lampshade, G5 iMacs, Intel iMacs, 24" iMac, 27" iMac, etc. Gone for years. But now, they brought back colors. Apple's sales are so much higher now than when Steve introduced the iBook to fill the 4 spot product chart. They can afford the extra choices, but there is room there to cut down on the colors if they want a few less products. (Multiple colors, especially for a desktop, is an interesting side topic. Does it sell more units? Do people buy an iMac over a PC because of the color offerings? Does someone have multiple ones, because of the colors? Does someone upgrade early, because of the colors? Or does Apple form a better bond with the customer, because it can come in a color that brings more joy to a user? Or do more users end up buying directly from Apple, in store or online, to get the color they want? On some devices Apple still only offers certain colors at certain levels, so it can also help with the upsell. But it is not like some of the first MacBooks, where (if I remember right) the only difference between the white version and the black version was the color, and an extra $100 on the price. Apple must have decided it is worth it even for desktop machines (Watch/iPod/iPhone/etc, and even portable Macs, are obviously in a much different fashion class), or else they wouldn't keep on having a much more complex production and inventory system.)
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Post by kpas1 on Mar 10, 2022 12:37:20 GMT -8
What's up with the AAPL underperformance today? Not noticing any Apple-specific bad news on the wire, but we're down about 4%, much more than any of the indices. My guess is dumb money exiting to go into Amazon before the splits and the completion of the sub-1% buybacks. Does dumb money come from a dumb bunny?
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Post by Odd-Lot Richard on Mar 10, 2022 12:57:03 GMT -8
Does dumb money come from a dumb bunny? Retail usually has the attention span of a bunny, it’s true.
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,335
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Post by Dave on Mar 10, 2022 13:16:53 GMT -8
What's up with the AAPL underperformance today? Not noticing any Apple-specific bad news on the wire, but we're down about 4%, much more than any of the indices. Someone signaling here is your entry point? FUD (Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt) There's more than enough of it to go around.
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Post by firestorm on Mar 10, 2022 13:44:34 GMT -8
I watched the introduction of new products yesterday and took a drink every time one of the presenters said "incredible!" Then I had to sleep it off for a day.
But seriously folks, I am ordering a Mac Studio SOON, in hopes that it will reverse the stock price.
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chinacat
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AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,438
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Post by chinacat on Mar 10, 2022 14:05:49 GMT -8
(recall I live in Commiefornia where unicorn and pixie fart energy is very expensive). You just can’t resist spoiling a thoughtful and informative post with this childish BS, can you? I have a 5 year old grandson who has more self control. Perhaps you think this makes you look clever - you’re wrong.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,241
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Post by JDSoCal on Mar 10, 2022 15:49:01 GMT -8
(recall I live in Commiefornia where unicorn and pixie fart energy is very expensive). You just can’t resist spoiling a thoughtful and informative post with this childish BS, can you? I have a 5 year old grandson who has more self control. Perhaps you think this makes you look clever - you’re wrong. So here's the thing: I am adding value to this board for free. I am not compensated for it, and you are not my boss. If you can't control your emotional reactions to my sense of humor, feel free to mute my posts. Whatever you need to do to manage your triggering. I reserve the right to amuse myself.
Nationwide the average price for a regular gallon of gas reached $4.17 this week — breaking the previous record set in 2008 — but in California, the average price is now $5.44!
California averages 19.90¢ / kWh for electricity. That is *double* what some states pay.
So yeah, I reserve the right to be extra-cranky about energy costs. Just as Tim Apple is, and every other sentient tech company CEO, which is one of the reasons they always put their data centers and factories in the other 49 states instead of California. But hey, all this green lunacy that helped fund Russia's military should help make Apple's low powered Mx chips market well. Assuming our electric grid actually survives WWIII.
In conclusion, feel free to mute my posts. But, like with Trump, my awesomeness comes with the mean tweets. I am who I am and this is how I talk and write! Not sorry.
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crispin
Member
KBJ for the win. AAPL long and strong since 2000
Posts: 325
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Post by crispin on Mar 10, 2022 16:13:58 GMT -8
(recall I live in Commiefornia where unicorn and pixie fart energy is very expensive). You just can’t resist spoiling a thoughtful and informative post with this childish BS, can you? I have a 5 year old grandson who has more self control. Perhaps you think this makes you look clever - you’re wrong. Ah yes, just about everyone else here is capable of acting like adults and controlling themselves, but we have one member who thinks they're a special snowflake and free to pollute the board with all sorts of ignorance, bigotry, and offensive crap. It seems to me that the moderators have the ability to do something about it if they desired.
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Ted
fire starter
Posts: 892
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Post by Ted on Mar 10, 2022 17:04:09 GMT -8
You just can’t resist spoiling a thoughtful and informative post with this childish BS, can you? I have a 5 year old grandson who has more self control. Perhaps you think this makes you look clever - you’re wrong. Ah yes, just about everyone else here is capable of acting like adults and controlling themselves, but we have one member who thinks they're a special snowflake and free to pollute the board with all sorts of ignorance, bigotry, and offensive crap. It seems to me that the moderators have the ability to do something about it if they desired. Gotta agree. JD wrote two fine posts, but then couldn't resist with the lib-triggering editorializing. Yawn. Then like an angry teen, he cries "I am who I am - block me if you don't like it" and slams the door to his room. 🙄 I'm sure Texas or Florida would welcome him with open arms...
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,632
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Post by mark on Mar 10, 2022 18:19:30 GMT -8
Anyone know what percentage of Mac sales the iMac represents? Seems like a (relatively) lower margin product. Certainly lower than the Studio. Probably the closest that Apple will ever come to a TV. I don't see them getting rid of the iMac. In theory it looks like an overlap, that you could just get a mini or studio, and a display. And there is a pricing overlap. But the iMac makes it easier, having 2 less cords, and less clutter. Plus then Apple is selling the whole unit, instead of most of the display sales at that price point going to other venders. The two main reasons to keep the product line simple is to make the choice on what to buy easier (no "I'll think about it and decide which one is for me") and to limit production and inventory problems. But Apple has also shown that production/inventory isn't really an issue, coming out with the iMac and most other machines in multiple colors. Sure, they also had this back in some of the CRT iMacs (ie Dalmatian, etc), but it went away for the G4 lampshade, G5 iMacs, Intel iMacs, 24" iMac, 27" iMac, etc. Gone for years. But now, they brought back colors. Apple's sales are so much higher now than when Steve introduced the iBook to fill the 4 spot product chart. They can afford the extra choices, but there is room there to cut down on the colors if they want a few less products. (Multiple colors, especially for a desktop, is an interesting side topic. Does it sell more units? Do people buy an iMac over a PC because of the color offerings? Does someone have multiple ones, because of the colors? Does someone upgrade early, because of the colors? Or does Apple form a better bond with the customer, because it can come in a color that brings more joy to a user? Or do more users end up buying directly from Apple, in store or online, to get the color they want? On some devices Apple still only offers certain colors at certain levels, so it can also help with the upsell. But it is not like some of the first MacBooks, where (if I remember right) the only difference between the white version and the black version was the color, and an extra $100 on the price. Apple must have decided it is worth it even for desktop machines (Watch/iPod/iPhone/etc, and even portable Macs, are obviously in a much different fashion class), or else they wouldn't keep on having a much more complex production and inventory system.) I agree. I don't think they will get rid of the iMac anytime soon. For a few reasons: 1. It is truly entry level. Even for someone with zero sophistication when it comes to computers. 2. It is truly plug and play. Literally. You plug it in and use it. That's it. No wires to connect other than the common plug in the wall. The most difficult thing will be the wifi connection, but with WPS (or with a grandchild) that is theoretically also easy. 3. Colors! I know someone that bought the iMac specifically because they thought it went well in their kitchen desk area. And while I was there, when I asked them about it, someone else also heard (acquaintences of ours) ... and they too bought an iMac in their preferred color for their kids play/schoolwork room! 4. Beauty. I have a close friend who has a bunch of kids. He converted a large porch area into a fully enclosed/cooled/heated room with 6 desks around the perimeter, each with some variety of Mac on it. The two with the 27" iMacs were gorgeous (and those were the old non-color ones), one had a 24", and the rest had Mac minis with an assortment of monitors. This guy really wired up the whole place, he even had a 19" rack for network equipment, servers, and backup in the basement!!! And he was an early adopter of gigabit FTTH (fiber-to-the-home), I swear when I visited, downloading stuff always seemed almost instantaneous. Anyway, that whole room was a thing of beauty ... nearly a Mac showroom.
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4aapl
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Post by 4aapl on Mar 10, 2022 18:43:07 GMT -8
3. Colors! I know someone that bought the iMac specifically because they thought it went well in their kitchen desk area. And while I was there, when I asked them about it, someone else also heard (acquaintences of ours) ... and they too bought an iMac in their preferred color for their kids play/schoolwork room! People like colors, or rather the choice of colors. The question was how it was value added for Apple. Did they only buy an iMac because of the color choice? Did it get them to upgrade early? Does it make them feel a tighter connection to Apple? How exactly does it benefit Apple? I feel a lot of it works into the "tighter connection to Apple", which is a benefit even if it is hard to put a finger on. At the same time, my wife knew a fellow volunteer at a cooking school in Sonoma who had 6 kitchen aide mixers in different colors. In that case, he was buying them just for the color. I think that is a rather unique position, but it does happen.
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Post by Odd-Lot Richard on Mar 11, 2022 0:05:09 GMT -8
How exactly does it benefit Apple? It keeps people from covering their Macs with paint having poor thermal qualities, overheating their nice chips, and bringing in machines for a wasteful session of “this voids your warranty” “no it doesn’t”
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,632
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Post by mark on Mar 11, 2022 6:43:47 GMT -8
3. Colors! I know someone that bought the iMac specifically because they thought it went well in their kitchen desk area. And while I was there, when I asked them about it, someone else also heard (acquaintences of ours) ... and they too bought an iMac in their preferred color for their kids play/schoolwork room! People like colors, or rather the choice of colors. The question was how it was value added for Apple. Did they only buy an iMac because of the color choice? Did it get them to upgrade early? Does it make them feel a tighter connection to Apple? How exactly does it benefit Apple? I feel a lot of it works into the " tighter connection to Apple", which is a benefit even if it is hard to put a finger on. At the same time, my wife knew a fellow volunteer at a cooking school in Sonoma who had 6 kitchen aide mixers in different colors. In that case, he was buying them just for the color. I think that is a rather unique position, but it does happen. In this case, they bought it because it looked good in the location they wanted it. If Dell made an all-in-1 computer in purple, they may have bought that one instead. It's really not used all that much, I think for looking up recipes, and general quick web searches when a kid doesn't have their phone or tablet in their hands (that means "rarely"). Plus there's an alexa device right near it, so voice requests are used for a lot of things. We also have an alexa in our kitchen, used mostly for cooking timers and the daily jeopardy game. Actually, I think I can put a finger on one aspect of tighter connection! I once mentioned shared notes and they started using the kitchen iMac to add items to a shared shopping list note. Everyone can see it on their phone, so when they happen to be at the grocery store, they can pick things up as needed. I think over the long-term there are huge benefits to Apple. Even if we assume the margin on a base 24" iMac is negligible. The people in that household get used to using MacOS and Apple-y stuff and will like it. I suspect that their kids (all 6 of them) will never want to use anything other than Apple products when possible. I use both MacOS and Windows, and despite the big windows improvements over the last few years, MacOS is still nicer, better, and easier to use. And now also appreciably faster and more efficient due to the wondrous in-house designed processors.
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