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Post by aaplsauce on Mar 28, 2022 22:11:40 GMT -8
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chinacat
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Post by chinacat on Mar 29, 2022 6:57:53 GMT -8
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JDSoCal
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Post by JDSoCal on Mar 29, 2022 7:00:27 GMT -8
I've been reading a lot of comments about this (unannounced rumor). Unfortunately, the vast majority of people have never taken an accounting course (should be taught in high school, as should investing), and they think this is analogous to cars like Tesla where you have to pay in perpetuity just to use services on a car you already own. Just read the comments at the bottom of this story. Many are from people like me who despise paying bills and subscriptions. The proper analogy (IMO, but soliciting other opinions) is leasing with an option to buy, NOT a subscription, which has terrible connotations. So I would hope Apple does not call this a "subscription." I think the option to buy is key, as without any residual value, people will not treat the phone well, a vital lease concept. Apple wants the phone back to sell in other markets, without giving any trade-in value for it (this might be where the real profit is?). People are also arguing that this will be mandatory, and they will never comply. I think this is ridiculous, as Apple would happily take your money now vs later. The purpose of the sub model is to 1) get poorer people into higher margin phones they can't afford to buy upfront and 2) Nudge the lazy and ambivalent into upgrading. I fall into the latter category with my iPhone 8+ with Touch ID. This is essentially doing what the carriers do now, but cutting out the middleman (maybe the carriers will like this, as it reduces their need to carry inventory?). All of the above is my opinion. If there are any accountants (or leasing experts) on the board who would like to critique the above, I promise to read them with my usual grace, humility, and open-mindedness.
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chinacat
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AAPL Long since 2006
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Post by chinacat on Mar 29, 2022 8:04:57 GMT -8
… All of the above is my opinion. If there are any accountants (or leasing experts) on the board who would like to critique the above, I promise to read them with my usual grace, humility, and open-mindedness.
😂 Stop! Stop! You’re killin’ me!
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mark
fire starter
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Post by mark on Mar 29, 2022 10:31:57 GMT -8
I've been reading a lot of comments about this (unannounced rumor). Unfortunately, the vast majority of people have never taken an accounting course (should be taught in high school, as should investing), and they think this is analogous to cars like Tesla where you have to pay in perpetuity just to use services on a car you already own. Just read the comments at the bottom of this story. Many are from people like me who despise paying bills and subscriptions. I also generally dislike paying monthly bills for anything. And I happen to also own a Tesla. I'm trying to figure out what you are talking about here??? I paid Tesla twice so far, first $100 deposit to reserve a car and for them to start building it for me, and second, the balance that I owed them the day I picked up the car. All transactions were done online on their webpage and in their app. Literally "all", including ordering, choosing style/color/options, uploading proof of ID/insurance, and picking up the car. I didn't speak to or see a single person, I just clicked "accept delivery" or whatever they called it, and the doors would open for me, and I drove it away. Since then I haven't had to pay anything on a monthly basis. The only time I ever have to pay anything is when I "fill up" at a supercharger, and that's only been very few times so far. This is absolutely ridiculous, there is no way it'll be mandatory. Hey, I also still use an 8+ as my daily phone!
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JDSoCal
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Post by JDSoCal on Mar 29, 2022 11:13:19 GMT -8
I've been reading a lot of comments about this (unannounced rumor). Unfortunately, the vast majority of people have never taken an accounting course (should be taught in high school, as should investing), and they think this is analogous to cars like Tesla where you have to pay in perpetuity just to use services on a car you already own. Just read the comments at the bottom of this story. Many are from people like me who despise paying bills and subscriptions. I also generally dislike paying monthly bills for anything. And I happen to also own a Tesla. I'm trying to figure out what you are talking about here??? I paid Tesla twice so far, first $100 deposit to reserve a car and for them to start building it for me, and second, the balance that I owed them the day I picked up the car. All transactions were done online on their webpage and in their app. Literally "all", including ordering, choosing style/color/options, uploading proof of ID/insurance, and picking up the car. I didn't speak to or see a single person, I just clicked "accept delivery" or whatever they called it, and the doors would open for me, and I drove it away. Since then I haven't had to pay anything on a monthly basis. The only time I ever have to pay anything is when I "fill up" at a supercharger, and that's only been very few times so far. OK this is why I posted this, to learn WTF is going on. But I guess some car makers are moving in this direction, and don't Tesla's have some software add-ons you have to buy to get functionality?
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Post by CdnPhoto on Mar 29, 2022 11:15:47 GMT -8
OK this is why I posted this, to learn WTF is going on. But I guess some car makers are moving in this direction, and don't Tesla's have some software add-ons you have to buy to get functionality? Looks like the Full Self Drive is a subscription
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Post by duckpins on Mar 29, 2022 11:25:20 GMT -8
Looks like the Full Self Drive is a subscription Along with being a pipe dream. You can't even get self driving trolls (spell check change trolleys to trolls-sign of the times) or trains and they go on tracks.If you want self driving make race cars self driving and let them run around the track. Note TSLA has dropped below the even line on car satisfaction by CR.
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Post by duckpins on Mar 29, 2022 11:31:28 GMT -8
Apple gapped up today after an extended rally. Beginning of the end of this move or sign of an accelerated upswing. Time will tell.
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,632
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Post by mark on Mar 29, 2022 12:09:57 GMT -8
I also generally dislike paying monthly bills for anything. And I happen to also own a Tesla. I'm trying to figure out what you are talking about here??? I paid Tesla twice so far, first $100 deposit to reserve a car and for them to start building it for me, and second, the balance that I owed them the day I picked up the car. All transactions were done online on their webpage and in their app. Literally "all", including ordering, choosing style/color/options, uploading proof of ID/insurance, and picking up the car. I didn't speak to or see a single person, I just clicked "accept delivery" or whatever they called it, and the doors would open for me, and I drove it away. Since then I haven't had to pay anything on a monthly basis. The only time I ever have to pay anything is when I "fill up" at a supercharger, and that's only been very few times so far. OK this is why I posted this, to learn WTF is going on. But I guess some car makers are moving in this direction, and don't Tesla's have some software add-ons you have to buy to get functionality? Tesla has an option called FSD (stands for "Full Self Driving", but those words are essentially BS ... there are no cars on the road today that are full self driving, and so far I see no evidence that ANY car on the road today will ever be truly full self driving*. That option costs $12k today, and that price has varied dramatically over the years, I think it was $3k in 2016/17, then it went up progressively to $10k (all of 2020, 2021 and early 22), and just recently went up to $12k. They also just added an option, maybe 6 or 7 months ago to pay monthly for the FSD option, the current price is $199/mo. I may try it someday just to test it out. I just looked in my Tesla app - In addition to the above, they have something called "acceleration boost" that can be purchased for a one-time fee of $2k. My car doesn't need any acceleration boost, it already does 0-60 in 3.2 seconds, that's TWICE AS QUICK as my '85 Mustang GT 5.0 liter, which was plenty quick in those years at 0-60 in 6.4 seconds! And they have a monthly fee to keep the Internet connection running ("premium connectivity") in the car, but it's only $9.99/mo which is a veritable bargain compared to what a typical cell carrier would charge for similar services. I don't pay any of there, but I'll probably pay for the premium connectivity when my free trial (1 year) runs out. Sometimes I watch Netflix while charging and satellite photo map overlays are sometimes quite useful (for example, when going to kids baseball game, where is the baseball diamond exactly?). * True self driving means that I can have the car bring my kids to school in the morning and then have it drive back home empty so I can use it throughout the day, and then have it pick up the kids in the afternoon.
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JDSoCal
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Post by JDSoCal on Mar 29, 2022 12:54:19 GMT -8
OK, not trying to make this a pro- or anti-Tesla thing. I am aware Tesla owners view their cars like their children.
This is more me trying to conceptualize the proper analogy to the alleged Apple sub thing. Because commentators seem to think this can really move the revs needle. Plus there is some real hate about subs for things you already own. So we should take it seriously.
Maybe Peloton? You own the bike but they charge a sub to get the rah-rah guy yelling at you?
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Post by duckpins on Mar 29, 2022 13:11:37 GMT -8
Peloton peloton where do you roam? I have a neighbor who gleefully pays 39.95 a month for so called classes. More importantly DIA and the UDOW gapped up along with AAPL> This could be a strong sign or just a blowoff before the fall. Tomorrow will be of interest to chart watchers. Lots of pluses on lots of charts FYI.
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mark
fire starter
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Post by mark on Mar 29, 2022 17:48:34 GMT -8
OK, not trying to make this a pro- or anti-Tesla thing. I am aware Tesla owners view their cars like their children. LOL, this is so true. To me, it's still just a piece of machinery. I think Peloton is a better analogy. But still, most of the time with Peloton, you buy the entire device, and then pay a subscription for the service ... but that is like cellphones today ... or even like TV today to a large extent (you buy the TV device, and then you pay for subscriptions to provide services for the device) Perhaps a good analogy is a car lease, pay monthly for the "hardware" rather than all up front?
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JDSoCal
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Post by JDSoCal on Mar 30, 2022 6:53:48 GMT -8
Perhaps a good analogy is a car lease, pay monthly for the "hardware" rather than all up front? No, that is the good analogy. I am trying to make the bad one that critics are alleging.
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4aapl
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Post by 4aapl on Mar 30, 2022 7:38:57 GMT -8
Perhaps a good analogy is a car lease, pay monthly for the "hardware" rather than all up front? No, that is the good analogy. I am trying to make the bad one that critics are alleging. The bad analogy is comparing it to renting a house. The rent is decent, but graspable, letting people who couldn't get into a house have a place to live. Otoh, there is no buy in (keeping costs low), making for nearly no reason not to switch at the end of a lease. In Apple's case, upgrade! From personal experience, I’ll tell you that some renters don’t care about the length or terms, or keeping it in good condition. Better to have people have some skin in the game, but this might be a good comparison to what people are thinking.
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