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Post by aaplsauce on May 3, 2022 20:57:14 GMT -8
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4aapl
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Post by 4aapl on May 3, 2022 21:42:24 GMT -8
Looks like this is the same from a few days ago, of the "group" (other articles said it now had 200 members) bothered by having to work 3 days in the office, instead of just 2. Their reasons are reasonable, somewhat. I don't know what the right number is, and it's probably not one set thing for everyone. On the team I was on, 10% were fully remote, though it turned out that some of those were companies that had been acquired. So of the 10-12 remote people, 3-4 of them were in a Denver suburb, working together in an office, but not in Cupertino. There were some others, and one standout software engineer was in Tucson, moving there after being onsite, but they wanted to keep him. Other teams sometimes had remote people that made a lot of sense, like a workplace injury guy in Honolulu. He said he woke up early, did all of his work, and then he could enjoy the beach on his afternoon. A few years later there was a push for more people being onsite, so I heard that this percentage shrank. It just all depends, both on the person and the corporate culture. I worked for IGT who didn't want anyone to work remote, ever. I finally got a couple remote days per winter, when the pass closed. But even that was pushing it. They'd blame it on regulation, but really they were just set in their ways. OTOH, I worked for a small 15 person startup where we were based all over the globe. The weekly 8 person online video meeting, with my boss in Israel and a coworker in Italy, along with a guy in Seattle who used a 30 hour day (it matches up weekly), was a good experience. There are things that work better in person. But being global, and allowing me to work at any time, I tended to work 3 different time chunks per day, but also often 7 days a week. It probably caused me to be too focused on work, and yet it gave great flexibility. There are trade-offs to everything. That said, for people working on-site, 3 days a week seems reasonable. Though it's easier, if you've moved away, to just have to get a hotel room near Cupertino for 1 night a week. Our town is strange. When the kids were in the pre-pre-school program, we knew of 3 families where the dad would fly away for work for the week, for 4 or 5 days. To Phoenix (commercial real-estate), Las Vegas (Chiropractor), and LA (Finance). That seemed a bit odd, but it worked for them at the time. FWIW, the commercial real-estate person moved back to Phoenix after a few years, then back here, then away again. The Chiropractor eventually sold his business. And the Finance guy moved to the bay area for a bit, then Costa Rica, and now back here again. Sometimes nothing is easy. And that's not listing any of the people that are commercial pilots. I'm sure Apple will figure out how to make it work, even if their pre-covid preference was to have more people onsite. To an outsider, 3 days onsite seems very doable. But maybe there is a compromise there, like 2 days a week, except all 5 days the last week of the month, for times where "maximum togetherness" is needed.
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Dave
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"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
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Post by Dave on May 4, 2022 2:29:33 GMT -8
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chinacat
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Post by chinacat on May 4, 2022 5:42:51 GMT -8
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Post by kpas1 on May 4, 2022 11:00:48 GMT -8
Look out above?
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JDSoCal
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Post by JDSoCal on May 4, 2022 11:11:29 GMT -8
From the article: Woke nonsense ! Or, or, how about just get your asses back to work? You aren't paid to sit at home. Oh boo hoo you have to see white male nerds, DEAL! This is just petulance and entitlement. Apple didn't build a multi-billion HQ for employees to sit home in their PJ's. Get back to work! Can you imagine Steve tolerating this shit? Time to start firing!
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mark
fire starter
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Post by mark on May 4, 2022 12:05:02 GMT -8
From the article: Woke nonsense ! Or, or, how about just get your asses back to work? You aren't paid to sit at home. Oh boo hoo you have to see white male nerds, DEAL! This is just petulance and entitlement. Apple didn't build a multi-billion HQ for employees to sit home in their PJ's. Get back to work! Can you imagine Steve tolerating this shit? Time to start firing! It's not that simple. In some fields (apparently very few nowadays), it might work, but in high-tech they WILL simply get up and walk ... "across the street" to another job paying as well or better.
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4aapl
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Post by 4aapl on May 4, 2022 13:00:43 GMT -8
I didn't know a .75 hike was even being considered.
Maybe Powell should have said "we don't have any 3% hikes on the table". Imagine what the market could have done!
I like his repeated statements of aiming for a soft, or soft-ish, landing. At least that is a known goal. Everyone was expecting a half point this time, and it was baked in. It's good that they took it, even though last quarter's GDP numbers went negative, even when it seemed like most things were still going ok. Based on that, and various worries for more of this quarter than last, it seems possible or even 50% likely that this current Q will be negative for GDP and we'll have a technical recession. But like that soft landing goal, a technical recession while reeling in inflation and still having a great employment economy might make it not matter too much.
Interesting market today.
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JDSoCal
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Aspiring oligarch
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Post by JDSoCal on May 4, 2022 14:58:41 GMT -8
From the article: Woke nonsense ! Or, or, how about just get your asses back to work? You aren't paid to sit at home. Oh boo hoo you have to see white male nerds, DEAL! This is just petulance and entitlement. Apple didn't build a multi-billion HQ for employees to sit home in their PJ's. Get back to work! Can you imagine Steve tolerating this shit? Time to start firing! It's not that simple. In some fields (apparently very few nowadays), it might work, but in high-tech they WILL simply get up and walk ... "across the street" to another job paying as well or better. Which is why we should have real freedom in the USA; if labor can collude, why not business?
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mark
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Post by mark on May 4, 2022 15:59:19 GMT -8
It's not that simple. In some fields (apparently very few nowadays), it might work, but in high-tech they WILL simply get up and walk ... "across the street" to another job paying as well or better. Which is why we should have real freedom in the USA; if labor can collude, why not business?
Your reply is a non-sequitur ... there's no collusion involved here. I'm not talking about unions, I'm talking about supply and demand ... of labor. Think of it this way, there are 3 companies, each one can maximize profit with hiring 5 high-tech workers. So there is demand for 15 of them. BUT there are only 12 high-tech workers available.Who gets 5? Who gets only 4 or 3 or them? The only way to properly decide is the capitalist way - willing buyers/willing sellers meet at a price they both agree upon.
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Post by macster on May 5, 2022 2:23:11 GMT -8
Why waste space. Apple could open up a Bed and Breakfast business at Apple Park’s Spaceship Campus. Would be enormously successful and profitable.
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JDSoCal
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Aspiring oligarch
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Post by JDSoCal on May 5, 2022 6:12:29 GMT -8
Which is why we should have real freedom in the USA; if labor can collude, why not business?
Your reply is a non-sequitur ... there's no collusion involved here. I'm not talking about unions, I'm talking about supply and demand ... of labor. Think of it this way, there are 3 companies, each one can maximize profit with hiring 5 high-tech workers. So there is demand for 15 of them. BUT there are only 12 high-tech workers available.Who gets 5? Who gets only 4 or 3 or them? The only way to properly decide is the capitalist way - willing buyers/willing sellers meet at a price they both agree upon. It's not a non-sequitur. I'll decide what are relevant follow-ups to my own posts, thank you very much. Point being, SV companies could get together in a trade association and agree not to hire those quitting member companies because they were forced to actually show up for work. Of course there are anti-trust problems with this. Hence my collusion argument: Labor can collude but not businesses.
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4aapl
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Post by 4aapl on May 5, 2022 7:59:56 GMT -8
Point being, SV companies could get together in a trade association and agree not to hire those quitting member companies because they were forced to actually show up for work. Of course there are anti-trust problems with this. Hence my collusion argument: Labor can collude but not businesses.
I got a settlement check maybe 12 years ago, I think in the low 5 figures, for this sort of practice by Apple and other tech companies. If i remember right, there was (claimed) collusion on salaries or salary info. It's all supply and demand. Apple, more-so in the past, had the underdog feeling going for it. While working there, a few coworkers left for Google, but I didn't even look, happy enough. I was really hoping the "Apple University" stuff would help with getting employees, and maybe it is. It's the feeder line, training people early, and then hiring the good ones. But the whole tech industry needs to decide what they need. For some subset of jobs out there, a 1-2 year concentrated program could be just as good, or even better, than a 4 year degree. And some jobs could even piggyback it, say working half time while learning. The 2 kids across the street both went off to a condensed ~9 month automotive program from UTI. That's closer to a trade thing, but even on the trade side some do pretty well, including a brother-in-law who is a plumber. Given the rates we are paying for our various contractors, some do pretty well, even if now is an interesting time and not all locations are the same.
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platon
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Post by platon on May 6, 2022 9:45:44 GMT -8
I have a unique perspective on this. I have been the President of a small local union working in the oil patch. We met with management regularly and the relationship was good, both management and labor were interested in two major issues, safety and wages. The Company was very pro-active on safety and generally the wage negotiation was amiable usual matching inflation plus 5 to 10%. When the Company had a a tough time when the price of oil dipped our wage request were more debatable, but it was obvious both the union and management wanted the Company to succeed. Then the union membership voted to join a national union, the OCAW. Suddenly the workers had another boss, the union bosses. The workers in our local had no choice and management suddenly became adversarial, it was not pleasant. I spent a few night in motel discussing what was going on and decided I did not like having a couple of thugs in suits telling me what what the demands of the union were, I worked for a company that had treated us fairly well and now it was very adversarial. I was done.
Unions when first organized did some wonderful things before the government gave them so much power that they began to think they owned these companies. Their thuggery became blatant and this signaled the end of closed shop in Texas. Apple does not need a union, it need managers who know how to take care of the company and the workers, it needs workers who will do the same.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on May 7, 2022 2:53:47 GMT -8
I have a unique perspective on this. I have been the President of a small local union working in the oil patch. We met with management regularly and the relationship was good, both management and labor were interested in two major issues, safety and wages. The Company was very pro-active on safety and generally the wage negotiation was amiable usual matching inflation plus 5 to 10%. When the Company had a a tough time when the price of oil dipped our wage request were more debatable, but it was obvious both the union and management wanted the Company to succeed. Then the union membership voted to join a national union, the OCAW. Suddenly the workers had another boss, the union bosses. The workers in our local had no choice and management suddenly became adversarial, it was not pleasant. I spent a few night in motel discussing what was going on and decided I did not like having a couple of thugs in suits telling me what what the demands of the union were, I worked for a company that had treated us fairly well and now it was very adversarial. I was done. Unions when first organized did some wonderful things before the government gave them so much power that they began to think they owned these companies. Their thuggery became blatant and this signaled the end of closed shop in Texas. Apple does not need a union, it need managers who know how to take care of the company and the workers, it needs workers who will do the same. Platon, I’ve also had similar experiences while being a union member. There’s always a group of those that are radical trouble makers that are never satisfied, always making impossible demands that are destructive for both sides of the table. It takes a strong hand to keep those people in check.
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