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Post by Lstream on Feb 17, 2023 20:39:16 GMT -8
Apple won’t get a fair hearing with that permanently outraged, conspiracy theorist Jordan in charge. He will make shit up if he needs to, to support his pre-conceived agenda. Former wrestling coach who has zero capacity to have a clue about tech. I am shocked that you are so uninformed. Permanently outraged conspiracy theorist? Stick with Apple and keep your politics out of here. Geez Sure thing sport. My politics don’t belong, but yours and those that share your politics are most welcome. Hypocrite
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platon
Member
"All we can know is that we know nothing. And that's the height of human wisdom.? Tolstoy
Posts: 3,944
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Post by platon on Feb 17, 2023 22:40:54 GMT -8
I would like to see if anyone can come up with a post I ever made that called for anyone on this board to be silenced for their political views. There was only one side that complained about political views being expressed and I don't believe Macster was one of them. I personally think politics and the suppression of speech should be considered as important to Apple and the stock market as any other agenda that affects these companies.
I can prove Jordan is right to anyone who cares to listen but that would require one of my 600+ word political posts which 4aapl has indicated he wants no part of, and that I have followed his rules.
I also think that Macster was simply echoing comments made by others when his comments in the past were construed as political, it was a common theme. I am almost certain that he never made the call to silence dissent during the political battles,
There was no personal attack on you by Macster in his response, but you could not resist. I also thought JD's post was more about Apple's policies, and what he thought Apple should do to keep the company from engaging in choosing political sides which will always hurt the company with one side or the other.
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,335
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Post by Dave on Feb 18, 2023 1:52:01 GMT -8
Thank you Platon. There is a thread, Tim Cook, The Activist, that was started years ago warning about the dangers of dragging Apple into areas that are so very polarizing and self serving for Cook. We are starting to see the results of such actions.
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,867
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Post by 4aapl on Feb 18, 2023 8:35:29 GMT -8
I can prove Jordan is right to anyone who cares to listen but that would require one of my 600+ word political posts which 4aapl has indicated he wants no part of, and that I have followed his rules. You know it's getting political when platon and macster start posting The moderators as a group don't want to be dictators, understanding that this site is a group effort rather than one individual's blog. Guidance has been passed down from past moderators, as well as from how the site self-moderated. And then last year I ran a poll to see what the users here want. Basically it said that people didn't want politics, but they didn't want it so strict or absolute. The largest group of voters felt that little here and there, even when not something that specifically affected Apple or AAPL, should be ok. That's where we are. Thank you, the everyone you in this case, for keeping the boards fairly quiet of politics when it is off-topic. The Dungeon has been pretty quiet for a while. For over a year now it has been only viewable for logged in users, and these days we have up to 10x more "guests" than logged in users. Given how my iPhone seems to log me out every day, whereas my Mac keeps me logged in for years, a lot of this is probably just a usage thing. For those that do like this space but don't have an account, create one and post once in a while. For those that have an account but view as a guest, log in and post once in a while. I don't think this is the place for lots of off-topic politics. Taking a pizza place as an example, it would be one thing to casually mention politics when it fits in, while talking to the cashier or cook. It's a little obnoxious to insert it in when it really doesn't fit (ohhh, I see you are using RED sauce again). Start having longer chats about politics and you might make other patrons choose to go elsewhere next time. And changing to long talks, bringing the actual on-topic work to a stop, and suddenly neither you nor other patrons get the pizza you are there to have. Let's continue to keep politics that are not on-topic to a minimal on the main areas. But if you really feel you need to have your piece said, and can do so without name calling of people here, politicians, political parties, etc, then put it in the Dungeon. This isn't a political site. Post Apple/AAPL/finance stuff more often than political. Become a problem, and a moderator will/may/might delete your account, possibly with no warning. Like always, there are a multitude of political sites out there. The preference would be to post there instead, and just link to it. In the past, I have not seen much effort here of people actually wanting to discuss politics, with some back and forth, and give and take. Instead, it has degraded to people standing on their soap box, and often then name calling at the others standing on their soap boxes. But in the theory of eternal optimism, maybe "this time is different". FWIW, our site has slowly but continually shrunk over time. There are likely many reasons for this. I know there are times where I'm just fine with Apple, not needing to think about it all of the time, and maybe trying to focus on other things. At the same time, it's a fun hobby, with big numbers up or down every day, so it is normally fun or interesting to stay engaged. But people can be driven away from a site being too strict, just as they can from a site degrading into off-topics too much. It's like the soup-nazi vs the pizza place where you never get your pizza because the customer and cashier are talking politics. Keep in mind the point of this board, but if you enjoy this board then try to engage and post once in a while. Maybe that's once a week. Maybe that is monthly. But post something, whether it is a thought on an area, a link to a story, a reply to something, what you like or don't like about an Apple product, or even just what new Apple stuff you or a friend just got. Thanks everyone!
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,241
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Post by JDSoCal on Feb 18, 2023 9:01:21 GMT -8
Whites are far more likely to be shot by police than black people, so I am not sure what the point of this emoting is. It truly is amazing how misinformed some on this board are.
Yes, amazing isn't it? And it's disappointing that so many people on this board purposely try to misinform. For example can you imagine anyone stating that white people are more likely than black people to be shot by police in this country, knowing that only 13.6% of the people in this country are black and 75.8% are white? So, that's saying the white population, which is over 5.5 times *greater* than the black population, is more likely to be shot by police. Shocking. /s I've never in my life seen a report of an unarmed eskimo being shot by police at a traffic stop...they be must really well-behaved and never seen as a threat. I'm guessing that white people AND black people "are far more likely to be shot by police than" eskimos. Of course percentage of the population is far less relevant than who actually commits most of the violent crimes, since that is what makes police interact with a given racial subset in the first place.
So yes, if you just look at population, 1000 fatal police shootings per year, 50% white, 25% black (~ 2-1). BUT when you adjust for violent crime rates (blacks only constitute 13% of the population are responsible for almost 50% of homicides), the disparity in police shootings inverts to 2.25-to-1 more likely to be white, despite blacks being like 10X more likely to commit the violent crimes! Police are simply far more likely to be dealing with a violent black suspect than a violent white suspect statistically.
It's even more stark when you adjust for gender (black males are ~6% of the population but are responsible for 42% of the cop killings). Source: Heather Mac Donald of the Manhattan Institute.
But the simple truth is, don't act like a moron when police stop you and your chances of being killed are near zero.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,241
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Post by JDSoCal on Feb 18, 2023 9:07:22 GMT -8
I can prove Jordan is right to anyone who cares to listen but that would require one of my 600+ word political posts which 4aapl has indicated he wants no part of, and that I have followed his rules. You know it's getting political when platon and macster start posting The moderators as a group don't want to be dictators, understanding that this site is a group effort rather than one individual's blog. Guidance has been passed down from past moderators, as well as from how the site self-moderated. And then last year I ran a poll to see what the users here want. Basically it said that people didn't want politics, but they didn't want it so strict or absolute. The largest group of voters felt that little here and there, even when not something that specifically affected Apple or AAPL, should be ok. That's where we are. Thank you, the everyone you in this case, for keeping the boards fairly quiet of politics when it is off-topic. The Dungeon has been pretty quiet for a while. For over a year now it has been only viewable for logged in users, and these days we have up to 10x more "guests" than logged in users. Given how my iPhone seems to log me out every day, whereas my Mac keeps me logged in for years, a lot of this is probably just a usage thing. For those that do like this space but don't have an account, create one and post once in a while. For those that have an account but view as a guest, log in and post once in a while. I don't think this is the place for lots of off-topic politics. Taking a pizza place as an example, it would be one thing to casually mention politics when it fits in, while talking to the cashier or cook. It's a little obnoxious to insert it in when it really doesn't fit (ohhh, I see you are using RED sauce again). Start having longer chats about politics and you might make other patrons choose to go elsewhere next time. And changing to long talks, bringing the actual on-topic work to a stop, and suddenly neither you nor other patrons get the pizza you are there to have. Let's continue to keep politics that are not on-topic to a minimal on the main areas. But if you really feel you need to have your piece said, and can do so without name calling of people here, politicians, political parties, etc, then put it in the Dungeon. This isn't a political site. Post Apple/AAPL/finance stuff more often than political. Become a problem, and a moderator will/may/might delete your account, possibly with no warning. Like always, there are a multitude of political sites out there. The preference would be to post there instead, and just link to it. In the past, I have not seen much effort here of people actually wanting to discuss politics, with some back and forth, and give and take. Instead, it has degraded to people standing on their soap box, and often then name calling at the others standing on their soap boxes. But in the theory of eternal optimism, maybe "this time is different". FWIW, our site has slowly but continually shrunk over time. There are likely many reasons for this. I know there are times where I'm just fine with Apple, not needing to think about it all of the time, and maybe trying to focus on other things. At the same time, it's a fun hobby, with big numbers up or down every day, so it is normally fun or interesting to stay engaged. But people can be driven away from a site being too strict, just as they can from a site degrading into off-topics too much. It's like the soup-nazi vs the pizza place where you never get your pizza because the customer and cashier are talking politics. Keep in mind the point of this board, but if you enjoy this board then try to engage and post once in a while. Maybe that's once a week. Maybe that is monthly. But post something, whether it is a thought on an area, a link to a story, a reply to something, what you like or don't like about an Apple product, or even just what new Apple stuff you or a friend just got. Thanks everyone! I don't know how we got onto police shootings, but that was here, so I responded. Yes, off topic. But Apple facing antitrust scrutiny and its related political implications (and causes) is 100% on topic and I will continue to discuss it. I've been here as long as anyone and I won't be told what opinions I am allowed to express that are 100% related to Apple.
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Post by Luckychoices on Feb 18, 2023 10:28:10 GMT -8
Yes, amazing isn't it? And it's disappointing that so many people on this board purposely try to misinform. For example can you imagine anyone stating that white people are more likely than black people to be shot by police in this country, knowing that only 13.6% of the people in this country are black and 75.8% are white? So, that's saying the white population, which is over 5.5 times *greater* than the black population, is more likely to be shot by police. Shocking. /s I've never in my life seen a report of an unarmed eskimo being shot by police at a traffic stop...they be must really well-behaved and never seen as a threat. I'm guessing that white people AND black people "are far more likely to be shot by police than" eskimos. Of course percentage of the population is far less relevant than who actually commits most of the violent crimes, since that is what makes police interact with a given racial subset in the first place.
So yes, if you just look at population, 1000 fatal police shootings per year, 50% white, 25% black (~ 2-1). BUT when you adjust for violent crime rates (blacks only constitute 13% of the population are responsible for almost 50% of homicides), the disparity in police shootings inverts to 2.25-to-1 more likely to be white, despite blacks being like 10X more likely to commit the violent crimes! Police are simply far more likely to be dealing with a violent black suspect than a violent white suspect statistically.
It's even more stark when you adjust for gender (black males are ~6% of the population but are responsible for 42% of the cop killings). Source: Heather Mac Donald of the Manhattan Institute.
But the simple truth is, don't act like a moron when police stop you and your chances of being killed are near zero. www.mediamatters.org/heather-mac-donaldHeather Mac Donald Manhattan Institute fellowHeather Mac Donald is a fellow at conservative think tank the Manhattan Institute and a frequent guest on Fox News, where she has made racist comments about Black people and other extreme statements. She has written for National Review.
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Post by Luckychoices on Feb 18, 2023 10:46:27 GMT -8
You know it's getting political when platon and macster start posting The moderators as a group don't want to be dictators, understanding that this site is a group effort rather than one individual's blog. Guidance has been passed down from past moderators, as well as from how the site self-moderated. And then last year I ran a poll to see what the users here want. Basically it said that people didn't want politics, but they didn't want it so strict or absolute. The largest group of voters felt that little here and there, even when not something that specifically affected Apple or AAPL, should be ok. That's where we are. Thank you, the everyone you in this case, for keeping the boards fairly quiet of politics when it is off-topic. The Dungeon has been pretty quiet for a while. For over a year now it has been only viewable for logged in users, and these days we have up to 10x more "guests" than logged in users. Given how my iPhone seems to log me out every day, whereas my Mac keeps me logged in for years, a lot of this is probably just a usage thing. For those that do like this space but don't have an account, create one and post once in a while. For those that have an account but view as a guest, log in and post once in a while. I don't think this is the place for lots of off-topic politics. Taking a pizza place as an example, it would be one thing to casually mention politics when it fits in, while talking to the cashier or cook. It's a little obnoxious to insert it in when it really doesn't fit (ohhh, I see you are using RED sauce again). Start having longer chats about politics and you might make other patrons choose to go elsewhere next time. And changing to long talks, bringing the actual on-topic work to a stop, and suddenly neither you nor other patrons get the pizza you are there to have. Let's continue to keep politics that are not on-topic to a minimal on the main areas. But if you really feel you need to have your piece said, and can do so without name calling of people here, politicians, political parties, etc, then put it in the Dungeon. This isn't a political site. Post Apple/AAPL/finance stuff more often than political. Become a problem, and a moderator will/may/might delete your account, possibly with no warning. Like always, there are a multitude of political sites out there. The preference would be to post there instead, and just link to it. In the past, I have not seen much effort here of people actually wanting to discuss politics, with some back and forth, and give and take. Instead, it has degraded to people standing on their soap box, and often then name calling at the others standing on their soap boxes. But in the theory of eternal optimism, maybe "this time is different". FWIW, our site has slowly but continually shrunk over time. There are likely many reasons for this. I know there are times where I'm just fine with Apple, not needing to think about it all of the time, and maybe trying to focus on other things. At the same time, it's a fun hobby, with big numbers up or down every day, so it is normally fun or interesting to stay engaged. But people can be driven away from a site being too strict, just as they can from a site degrading into off-topics too much. It's like the soup-nazi vs the pizza place where you never get your pizza because the customer and cashier are talking politics. Keep in mind the point of this board, but if you enjoy this board then try to engage and post once in a while. Maybe that's once a week. Maybe that is monthly. But post something, whether it is a thought on an area, a link to a story, a reply to something, what you like or don't like about an Apple product, or even just what new Apple stuff you or a friend just got. Thanks everyone! I don't know how we got onto police shootings, but that was here, so I responded. Yes, off topic. But Apple facing antitrust scrutiny and its related political implications (and causes) is 100% on topic and I will continue to discuss it. I've been here as long as anyone and I won't be told what opinions I am allowed to express that are 100% related to Apple.
There are a number of us who have been here "as long as anyone"...and like it or not, we *will* be told what opinions we're allowed to express here...and opinions aren't "100% related to Apple" just because we say they are. As 4aapl points out, this site is far less active than it was years ago...for a multitude of reasons. I don't always agree with 4aapl, but he's spent *much* more time than either of us attempting to help this board survive. There are a number of AFB members who value your Apple-related contributions...count me in that group...but nobody is more important than the board itself.
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platon
Member
"All we can know is that we know nothing. And that's the height of human wisdom.? Tolstoy
Posts: 3,944
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Post by platon on Feb 24, 2023 22:30:11 GMT -8
Problem is, Lovey solved a lot of it when she created the Dungeon but some can't stand for someone to disagree with them even if they don't have to see it. Since 4aapl made the rule I have followed it but I just want the personal attacks pointed out.
They (the personal attacks) don't bother me but Dave is pointing out politics as it relates to Apple and it seems we can't even handle that. Like I once pointed out if you think that Apple as a business rises above being affected by politics you are deluded.
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,867
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Post by 4aapl on Feb 25, 2023 21:14:28 GMT -8
Problem is, Lovey solved a lot of it when she created the Dungeon but some can't stand for someone to disagree with them even if they don't have to see it. Since 4aapl made the rule I have followed it but I just want the personal attacks pointed out. They (the personal attacks) don't bother me but Dave is pointing out politics as it relates to Apple and it seems we can't even handle that. Like I once pointed out if you think that Apple as a business rises above being affected by politics you are deluded. We've had personal attacks from multiple people. Like this thread, it escalates, and often isn't just a one-off thing. And so we had to say "no" to all politics for a while. There was just nothing to gain, and everything to lose. But we're at this point now where we only have about 30 logged in users a day, and the Dungeon has been set up for about a year to only let logged in users see it. My feeling is that of those logged in users, 1/3 to 2/3 don't really care about the Dungeon, instead only caring about the on-topic posts. If letting off-topic political posts happen there helps save the board, then so be it. At the same time, you're really talking about 10 people or less who are going to see those posts. Assume a 50/50 party split, with no-one in the middle, and you're talking 5 people per side. So in posting a clearly sided post there, you'd be posting to 4 other like-minded individuals, while maybe there would be 5 people "on the other side". What are you hoping for with that? Are you hoping that your eloquent response with sited sources from sided sites is going to sway any of the 5? It all seems rather pointless to me. Like if I was to go onto an Android site, and try to sway the masses, or at least someone. Hopefully there would be more than 5 people. I really just suggest skipping the OT political stuff here. If you must, use the Dungeon. But really, the numbers just aren't here, and politics is one of the reasons that things have slowly shrunk over time. Ask yourself, anyone here posting off-topic politics, if it's worth it. I don't want to be the one posting "last one here, turn out the lights". Apple and AAPL is a strange beast that has changed dramatically over the last 3 decades. I personally like this board for what it is, a place to share thoughts and ideas on AAPL, Apple, and finances. But like reminding my youngest that all things will eventually die, when one of our goldfish kicked the bucket, neither Apple, AAPL, or this list will last forever. All things have a limited lifespan. Some just go a little quicker than others, like fresh powder on the slopes.
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Post by hledgard on Feb 26, 2023 6:04:05 GMT -8
I love this board. It has been a blessing to me for years, I think at least a decade. I surely hope it survives ! ! ! !
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