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Post by CdnPhoto on Feb 2, 2024 4:20:16 GMT -8
** Reminder, I'll be off for a while. Please reach out to 4aapl if you can help start some of the daily threads. AAPL currently at: $181.90 -4.96 (-2.65%) RSI is 45.08 Well, that sucked. Fear about iPhone sales in China dragged the stock down after hours. Let's see how we close. Apple's China sales tumble highlights waning clout as local brands gainOh yea.. It's Apple Vision Pro delivery date for many out there.
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Post by CdnPhoto on Feb 2, 2024 4:24:02 GMT -8
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,552
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Post by mark on Feb 2, 2024 6:41:35 GMT -8
I might be off-base on this, but usually Cook doesn't do things like this (hint at a future product or service in an oblique manner). I can envision the discussion in the room while they decided on the wording of the conference call going like this. "We are about to inform everyone that we expect to have a flat quarter, after 4 straight quarters of zero or negative growth", "What can we do to blunt the response?", "Why don't we use the 'AI' buzzword somehow? Everyone else is doing it with reasonable success!", "Well, we've been working on AI and related things for years, if not decades, now, so how do we mention it without pre-announcing some sort of product or service?", ... However, history shows us that Apple rarely releases something that doesn't earn them money*, so if (and when) they release some sort of AI, or related, product/service, it ought to be quite a good one. Even Siri, with all the criticism 'she' gets, earns them money by at least making the iPhone capable enough for limited voice commands. But imagine a supercharged Siri that can do [more] natural language requests and answers? I think that would be superb. Even simple things would be appreciated by many people. For a silly example, I periodically ask Siri what the current lottery jackpots are, and she can't answer, instead she will open a few websites for me to choose from. But that's not what I want, what I want is a simple answer on the lines of "The powerball jackpot is current $XXX million, the Megamillions jackpot is currently $YYY million, and for other lottery information, here are some relevant websites". Maybe some AI or related addition will enable Siri to do this next year? And that would be the minimum I expect, there should be many more things that can be enabled with AI additions. * I'm pretty convinced that this is why Apple hasn't gone full-in and released a car yet. I'm quite sure that they know that any car they produce would be higher end and would be quite expensive. That would limit the market for it, and might make it too expensive to produce with any profit. It's relatively easy to sell a premium product for $1000 ("iPhone") when the competitors sell for $600 (Samesung, etc). It might even be plausible to sell a super-premium pruduct for $4000 ("AVR") while the competitors sell a lesser product for $1000 (FB VR). But it's much different trying to sell a premium product for $90,000 (Apple sedan) while others sell a reasonably good one for $50,000 (Tesla sedan). I think as the dollar differential goes up (between the premium product and the adequate product), the more difficult it becomes to justify making that premium product. Sure there will always be niche players, Ferrari, McLaren, Rolls Royce, Bentley, but Apple never wants to be a niche player. That's just not who they are. By the way, this could also be the reason they don't make routers or displays anymore. Maybe they decided that they can't add enough premium features to a router or to a display to make it worth a premium price to earn sufficient margin AND to have adequate volume.
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Dave
Member
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,103
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Post by Dave on Feb 2, 2024 7:01:39 GMT -8
I would predict that if "later this year" comes and goes and there is no generative AI from Apple that all hell will break loss with Mr. Market. Promises seldom add value. Just sayin'.
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,552
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Post by mark on Feb 2, 2024 7:08:16 GMT -8
I would predict that if "later this year" comes and goes and there is no generative AI from Apple that all hell will break loss with Mr. Market. Promises seldom add value. Just sayin'. I think there are enough Siri (and other) improvements queued up for "later this year" that Tim was pretty confident that even if there's no huge new entry into the AI world, there will still be enough noticeable changes to Siri (and other things in various iPhone services) for the media to mention (and compare and contrast to older versions). If I had to guess, I think the main thing Apple is grappling with in the AI arena, is how much privacy to "let go of" to make the AI as useful as possible to their customers.
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,634
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Post by 4aapl on Feb 2, 2024 7:30:29 GMT -8
AAPL currently at: $181.90 -4.96 (-2.65%) RSI is 45.08 An hour in and with the stock at 183.37, I see the RSI just below the 40 level, at 39.60. I like looking at that, just to be reminded the rough oversold/overbought sentiment, or the "how bad is it" type thing. With the AH drop after earnings, I was wondering if today or the next couple days would be a drop followed by a climb, as analysts point out "hey, things were pretty good". (EDIT: 44.55 at 186.56, about 2 hours in after 50M shares have traded. And a couple minutes later the stock is now barely green, just over $187) But it could matter more on the excitement over AVP. Enjoy your new product if getting one today!
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,634
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Post by 4aapl on Feb 2, 2024 8:20:00 GMT -8
I would predict that if "later this year" comes and goes and there is no generative AI from Apple that all hell will break loss with Mr. Market. Promises seldom add value. Just sayin'. I think there are enough Siri (and other) improvements queued up for "later this year" that Tim was pretty confident that even if there's no huge new entry into the AI world, there will still be enough noticeable changes to Siri (and other things in various iPhone services) for the media to mention (and compare and contrast to older versions). If I had to guess, I think the main thing Apple is grappling with in the AI arena, is how much privacy to "let go of" to make the AI as useful as possible to their customers. Seems like it would be a WWDC thing, both a beefed up Siri coming in the next iOS, and maybe tools to let others use AI easier. Possibly something beyond that too, especially if there does have to be an on-product database that others can access but not copy to help maintain privacy. Would there be an announcement before WWDC? Normally there hasn't been too much stuff announced in that timeframe, especially when focusing on the higher end iPhones. But a product or push with a high end Mac could be at any time. As for privacy, that does bring up a potential thing with AVP looking at your eye movements. Is a flashing ad that you glance at going to know that you looked at it? It's one thing to try to not click on most ads, but to not even glance in their general direction could be tough. Ahhh, and I see that right here on this page. We still have some credits to run ad free, but I have to remember to queue them up every 6 months. I'll get to that now, so things will be back to ad-free for users that are logged in. Cheers!
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Post by duckpins on Feb 2, 2024 8:30:27 GMT -8
The groundhog didn't see his shadow so we are in for a short winter. Someone ought to research the hog's effect on the market? Saw Ives on Bloomberg. Very jazzed over the goggles.
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,634
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Post by 4aapl on Feb 2, 2024 8:39:12 GMT -8
The groundhog didn't see his shadow so we are in for a short winter. Someone ought to research the hog's effect on the market? Saw Ives on Bloomberg. Very jazzed over the goggles. In our neck of the woods, the snow predictors say that mostly if the east coast is getting snow, northern CA isn't getting rain and snow. We were seeing bare dirt in our flowerbeds yesterday after weeks of not much snow. But we got a dusting of snow yesterday and today, and it's looking like 2-3 feet with the storm starting Sunday. Where is that groundhog doing its thing? On the radio they said the groundhog is only right 39% of the time. Sounds like a contrarian indicator.
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,634
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Post by 4aapl on Feb 2, 2024 8:53:44 GMT -8
I had a hard time concentrating on the conference call yesterday. Was there any actual numbers or info on the AVP, even as far as "production or yields have increased", or anything about rollout to other countries?
I don't think there was, and wouldn't expect there to be. But just checking.
Looking at my Apple store tab, it now says "Visit your local Apple Store starting on 2.2". Mine says "Unavailable for 2-hr delivery", but on normal delivery the estimate had dropped down from as late as the middle of March to now saying "Feb 26 - Mar 4 (Free)".
I think they will sell as many as they can make, and then stockpile a few before releasing in other countries. And we won't know actual numbers for a while, so even the timeframe on this won't tell us much. But I want Apple to get them out to the people that want to buy them, especially those that are willing to pay even more for them on the grey market now. And hey, opening it up to China ASAP would help minimize the worries there.
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Post by CdnPhoto on Feb 2, 2024 11:19:26 GMT -8
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Post by duckpins on Feb 2, 2024 11:23:56 GMT -8
Like in the movie, Groundhog Day< there has been a tradition in Western PA that the hog Puxatawny Phil in the city of the same name gets up early and casts the forecast. Germans did it with badgers which seems strange.
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Post by zebrum on Feb 2, 2024 11:48:21 GMT -8
Congrats to Meta holders! Commiserations to us 😭
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,634
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Post by 4aapl on Feb 2, 2024 11:54:58 GMT -8
Like in the movie, Groundhog Day< there has been a tradition in Western PA that the hog Puxatawny Phil in the city of the same name gets up early and casts the forecast. Germans did it with badgers which seems strange. It just always seems backwards to me. Seems like if the groundhog sees its shadow, then it is sunny out, and that would point to winter being done or shorter. It is a contrarian indicator! Being right only 30-38% of the time, means the flip to it is right much more than a coin flip. www.npr.org/2024/02/02/1228547493/groundhog-day-punxsutawney-phil-springNo problem. We just had our first 2-3 weeks of spring like conditions, after it was in the mid-50's here. That's prime spring skiing conditions, and some were skiing in a t-shirt. But this storm coming in is like the marmot saying we have at least a few more weeks of winter. 36-54" of snow in 48 hours should change things quickly. forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=39.26791245802701&lon=-119.97018814086914#.Un3XpZFtdSU AAPL is nearly back to breakeven for the day. Nothing like Meta's 21.5% increase or Amazon's 8% gain, but it's a start.
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Post by CdnPhoto on Feb 2, 2024 12:01:34 GMT -8
AAPL is nearly back to breakeven for the day. Nothing like Meta's 21.5% increase or Amazon's 8% gain, but it's a start. I see GREEN. Not what I expected this morning.
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Post by CdnPhoto on Feb 2, 2024 13:02:35 GMT -8
Posted this by mistake in yesterday's thread
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crispin
Member
KBJ for the win. AAPL long and strong since 2000
Posts: 311
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Post by crispin on Feb 2, 2024 14:03:34 GMT -8
I've been scanning reviews from new purchasers of AVP on Reddit and what I'm seeing is nearly universal "HOLY SH*T!" reactions. A lot of these people are experienced consumers of VR with collections of previous headsets, and they almost all are completely blown away by the AVP experience, saying things like "game changer" and "1000x ahead of the others" and yes even "magical" ; ) I think this bodes very well. Posted this by mistake in yesterday's thread
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,183
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Post by JDSoCal on Feb 2, 2024 14:34:27 GMT -8
Congrats to Meta holders! Commiserations to us 😭 A 470 META call purchased at the close yesterday for .09 hit 15.70 at the HOD, a 174 bagger. As for AI, it reminds me of the Internet craze of the early 2000's. Just get an Internet presence and the money will come! From CBSSportsline to Broadcast.com, we saw that wasn't true. Now every conference call has to talk about AI, because it is the current big buzzword. Is it impudent to ask where all this supposed guaranteed revenue will come from?
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Post by hledgard on Feb 2, 2024 15:43:01 GMT -8
I am in the same camp as JD.
And with reservations about the Vision Pro as well.
PS I would LOVE to be wrong ! !
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coma
Member
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Post by coma on Feb 2, 2024 16:13:39 GMT -8
As always, time will tell . . .
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Post by pauls on Feb 2, 2024 16:17:12 GMT -8
I've been scanning reviews from new purchasers of AVP on Reddit and what I'm seeing is nearly universal "HOLY SH*T!" reactions. A lot of these people are experienced consumers of VR with collections of previous headsets, and they almost all are completely blown away by the AVP experience, saying things like "game changer" and "1000x ahead of the others" and yes even "magical" ; ) I think this bodes very well. Posted this by mistake in yesterday's thread Put me down as another "HOLY SH*T!" It truly is an experience that is tough to put words to. Spatial Videos that I've been taking here and there with my recent iPhone 15 max are just....amazing. As are the Environments, the 3d content (movies, apps, special content made by Apple to demo the possibilities....). It's very easy to read (Apple News app, for instance). It's amazing to be in our very brightly lit living room on this unseasonably sunny day, with the sun reflecting off the river-- an environment we could never watch tv in, for instance....and be able to see these bright, clean windows of content arrayed around, amongst the familiar room, with zero issues of the room's brightness....and be able to turn the dial and fall back into an immersive environment--same windows, but now in the desert, or at a lake, or volcano, or mount Hood at night, in the rain.... It's crazy. The fidelity-- sound and vision-- is superb. The eye tracking feels magical. I imagine using it in the mornings-- watching the market, getting news, checking weather, reading email....all in different windows, maybe even with windows placed in different rooms (a couple in the kitchen, where I'm drinking coffee, some in front of the couch, etc-- windows stay where you put them, until you tell them to move). I can definitely see watching movies and TV. I'm alone a couple nights a week at some property we have in the country. I work all day out in the woods, or fixing up the old house. At night I watch movies and TV. This will be amazing. If you don't watch a lot of movies or TV, ymmv. But there is no comparison between the Vision Pro and ANY large, modern TV screen. None. The most annoying thing-- It's a little tricky to share. There is a 'guest' mode, but it requires the guest to go through a series of setup motions-- each time you hand it to the guest. So in our case, I handed it to my wife perhaps 4 times, as I was discovering new things to share with her, and each time required her to scan her hands, scan her eyes, etc. It only takes a couple of minutes, but to view a spacial video of our dog that I took a couple days ago, that was only an 8 second clip, is kind of a pain. Maybe this is something they can work on and remove friction on in the coming weeks in an update....? My preference would be a real sharing situation, where the vision pro could recognize multiple users, and save settings for each user for future use. It's very clear that Apple has made a huge commitment to this tech, this 'future'. It's not perfect-- I've only used it a total of maybe 1 hour. But it truly is astonishing.
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Post by aaplcrazie on Feb 2, 2024 16:19:29 GMT -8
The Line this AM round the Block from the 5th Ave 🍏
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crispin
Member
KBJ for the win. AAPL long and strong since 2000
Posts: 311
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Post by crispin on Feb 2, 2024 16:56:31 GMT -8
Thanks for the review! I was, and still am, curious about the guest user experience but it sounds like it's possibly not quite as smooth as it should/could be. Knowing Apple I'm also fairly confident that this will improve with VisionOS updates. Now I wait for news of the international rollout... I've been scanning reviews from new purchasers of AVP on Reddit and what I'm seeing is nearly universal "HOLY SH*T!" reactions. A lot of these people are experienced consumers of VR with collections of previous headsets, and they almost all are completely blown away by the AVP experience, saying things like "game changer" and "1000x ahead of the others" and yes even "magical" ; ) I think this bodes very well. Put me down as another "HOLY SH*T!" It truly is an experience that is tough to put words to. Spatial Videos that I've been taking here and there with my recent iPhone 15 max are just....amazing. As are the Environments, the 3d content (movies, apps, special content made by Apple to demo the possibilities....). It's very easy to read (Apple News app, for instance). It's amazing to be in our very brightly lit living room on this unseasonably sunny day, with the sun reflecting off the river-- an environment we could never watch tv in, for instance....and be able to see these bright, clean windows of content arrayed around, amongst the familiar room, with zero issues of the room's brightness....and be able to turn the dial and fall back into an immersive environment--same windows, but now in the desert, or at a lake, or volcano, or mount Hood at night, in the rain.... It's crazy. The fidelity-- sound and vision-- is superb. The eye tracking feels magical. I imagine using it in the mornings-- watching the market, getting news, checking weather, reading email....all in different windows, maybe even with windows placed in different rooms (a couple in the kitchen, where I'm drinking coffee, some in front of the couch, etc-- windows stay where you put them, until you tell them to move). I can definitely see watching movies and TV. I'm alone a couple nights a week at some property we have in the country. I work all day out in the woods, or fixing up the old house. At night I watch movies and TV. This will be amazing. If you don't watch a lot of movies or TV, ymmv. But there is no comparison between the Vision Pro and ANY large, modern TV screen. None. The most annoying thing-- It's a little tricky to share. There is a 'guest' mode, but it requires the guest to go through a series of setup motions-- each time you hand it to the guest. So in our case, I handed it to my wife perhaps 4 times, as I was discovering new things to share with her, and each time required her to scan her hands, scan her eyes, etc. It only takes a couple of minutes, but to view a spacial video of our dog that I took a couple days ago, that was only an 8 second clip, is kind of a pain. Maybe this is something they can work on and remove friction on in the coming weeks in an update....? My preference would be a real sharing situation, where the vision pro could recognize multiple users, and save settings for each user for future use. It's very clear that Apple has made a huge commitment to this tech, this 'future'. It's not perfect-- I've only used it a total of maybe 1 hour. But it truly is astonishing.
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Ted
fire starter
Posts: 882
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Post by Ted on Feb 2, 2024 17:50:14 GMT -8
I've been scanning reviews from new purchasers of AVP on Reddit and what I'm seeing is nearly universal "HOLY SH*T!" reactions. A lot of these people are experienced consumers of VR with collections of previous headsets, and they almost all are completely blown away by the AVP experience, saying things like "game changer" and "1000x ahead of the others" and yes even "magical" ; ) I think this bodes very well. Put me down as another "HOLY SH*T!" It truly is an experience that is tough to put words to. Spatial Videos that I've been taking here and there with my recent iPhone 15 max are just....amazing. As are the Environments, the 3d content (movies, apps, special content made by Apple to demo the possibilities....). It's very easy to read (Apple News app, for instance). It's amazing to be in our very brightly lit living room on this unseasonably sunny day, with the sun reflecting off the river-- an environment we could never watch tv in, for instance....and be able to see these bright, clean windows of content arrayed around, amongst the familiar room, with zero issues of the room's brightness....and be able to turn the dial and fall back into an immersive environment--same windows, but now in the desert, or at a lake, or volcano, or mount Hood at night, in the rain.... It's crazy. The fidelity-- sound and vision-- is superb. The eye tracking feels magical. I imagine using it in the mornings-- watching the market, getting news, checking weather, reading email....all in different windows, maybe even with windows placed in different rooms (a couple in the kitchen, where I'm drinking coffee, some in front of the couch, etc-- windows stay where you put them, until you tell them to move). I can definitely see watching movies and TV. I'm alone a couple nights a week at some property we have in the country. I work all day out in the woods, or fixing up the old house. At night I watch movies and TV. This will be amazing. If you don't watch a lot of movies or TV, ymmv. But there is no comparison between the Vision Pro and ANY large, modern TV screen. None. The most annoying thing-- It's a little tricky to share. There is a 'guest' mode, but it requires the guest to go through a series of setup motions-- each time you hand it to the guest. So in our case, I handed it to my wife perhaps 4 times, as I was discovering new things to share with her, and each time required her to scan her hands, scan her eyes, etc. It only takes a couple of minutes, but to view a spacial video of our dog that I took a couple days ago, that was only an 8 second clip, is kind of a pain. Maybe this is something they can work on and remove friction on in the coming weeks in an update....? My preference would be a real sharing situation, where the vision pro could recognize multiple users, and save settings for each user for future use. It's very clear that Apple has made a huge commitment to this tech, this 'future'. It's not perfect-- I've only used it a total of maybe 1 hour. But it truly is astonishing. Well that's great to hear, Paul! I can't wait to try one - maybe yours. 😉
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Post by pauls on Feb 2, 2024 19:16:43 GMT -8
Put me down as another "HOLY SH*T!" It truly is an experience that is tough to put words to. Spatial Videos that I've been taking here and there with my recent iPhone 15 max are just....amazing. As are the Environments, the 3d content (movies, apps, special content made by Apple to demo the possibilities....). It's very easy to read (Apple News app, for instance). It's amazing to be in our very brightly lit living room on this unseasonably sunny day, with the sun reflecting off the river-- an environment we could never watch tv in, for instance....and be able to see these bright, clean windows of content arrayed around, amongst the familiar room, with zero issues of the room's brightness....and be able to turn the dial and fall back into an immersive environment--same windows, but now in the desert, or at a lake, or volcano, or mount Hood at night, in the rain.... It's crazy. The fidelity-- sound and vision-- is superb. The eye tracking feels magical. I imagine using it in the mornings-- watching the market, getting news, checking weather, reading email....all in different windows, maybe even with windows placed in different rooms (a couple in the kitchen, where I'm drinking coffee, some in front of the couch, etc-- windows stay where you put them, until you tell them to move). I can definitely see watching movies and TV. I'm alone a couple nights a week at some property we have in the country. I work all day out in the woods, or fixing up the old house. At night I watch movies and TV. This will be amazing. If you don't watch a lot of movies or TV, ymmv. But there is no comparison between the Vision Pro and ANY large, modern TV screen. None. The most annoying thing-- It's a little tricky to share. There is a 'guest' mode, but it requires the guest to go through a series of setup motions-- each time you hand it to the guest. So in our case, I handed it to my wife perhaps 4 times, as I was discovering new things to share with her, and each time required her to scan her hands, scan her eyes, etc. It only takes a couple of minutes, but to view a spacial video of our dog that I took a couple days ago, that was only an 8 second clip, is kind of a pain. Maybe this is something they can work on and remove friction on in the coming weeks in an update....? My preference would be a real sharing situation, where the vision pro could recognize multiple users, and save settings for each user for future use. It's very clear that Apple has made a huge commitment to this tech, this 'future'. It's not perfect-- I've only used it a total of maybe 1 hour. But it truly is astonishing. Well that's great to hear, Paul! I can't wait to try one - maybe yours. 😉 c'mon over!
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,634
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Post by 4aapl on Feb 2, 2024 20:12:48 GMT -8
Ahh you kids. There are more than a few of us on (or near) the west coast. But it can still be a bit of a drive.
Enjoy the new stuff! Thanks for sharing! I think we'll have a busy weekend thread!
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4aapl
Moderator
Posts: 3,634
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Post by 4aapl on Feb 2, 2024 20:23:13 GMT -8
Congrats to Meta holders! Commiserations to us 😭 A 470 META call purchased at the close yesterday for .09 hit 15.70 at the HOD, a 174 bagger. As for AI, it reminds me of the Internet craze of the early 2000's. Just get an Internet presence and the money will come! From CBSSportsline to Broadcast.com, we saw that wasn't true. Now every conference call has to talk about AI, because it is the current big buzzword. Is it impudent to ask where all this supposed guaranteed revenue will come from? That's a good thing to watch out for, just as mentions of bitcoin/blockchain were recently. Sadly, it does seem almost a requirement now, to be at fair valuation or above. And that makes it something to watch out for, more-so for those faking it, just tangentially touching AI instead of actually having good reasons and good profit expectations. Like in the crazy times ( aaplfinance.proboards.com/post/133721/thread ), With that in mind, it will be interesting to see the "just tack on AI" mindset of the next year or two, and watch out for it.
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,552
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Post by mark on Feb 4, 2024 20:06:53 GMT -8
As for AI, it reminds me of the Internet craze of the early 2000's. Just get an Internet presence and the money will come! From CBSSportsline to Broadcast.com, we saw that wasn't true. Now every conference call has to talk about AI, because it is the current big buzzword. Is it impudent to ask where all this supposed guaranteed revenue will come from? It really is somewhat reminiscent of the 1999/2000 period and the Internet. Look at CSCO for example, because it provided the "plumbing", it rose rapidly and because one of the highest valued companies in the world. And today, Nvidia because it is providing the AI chips is becoming one of the highest valued companies in the world.
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Post by dmiller on Feb 5, 2024 6:21:08 GMT -8
I've been scanning reviews from new purchasers of AVP on Reddit and what I'm seeing is nearly universal "HOLY SH*T!" reactions. A lot of these people are experienced consumers of VR with collections of previous headsets, and they almost all are completely blown away by the AVP experience, saying things like "game changer" and "1000x ahead of the others" and yes even "magical" ; ) I think this bodes very well. Posted this by mistake in yesterday's thread These are the most exciting and blow/away things I’ve ever used. I spent maybe 10-12 hours inside of them over the weekend. Ongoing comments to come.
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Post by dmiller on Feb 5, 2024 6:22:07 GMT -8
I am in the same camp as JD. And with reservations about the Vision Pro as well. PS I would LOVE to be wrong ! ! You’re wrong if you’re a negative or unconvinced. This is the best and most incredible thing I’ve ever used.
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