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Post by sponge on May 21, 2013 9:55:14 GMT -8
I ask every member here to write a comment to Senator Levin, re: todays sub-commitee hearing. Everyone take 5 minutes! Good idea.
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Post by The Big Toe on May 21, 2013 9:55:26 GMT -8
OK Tim, now that we have THAT out of the way, let's get laser focused on those magnificent products that we can't wait to get our hands on.
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Post by rlo on May 21, 2013 10:01:50 GMT -8
Watching Cook today was as entertaining as watching Job's on stage.
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Post by nathanstevens on May 21, 2013 10:12:19 GMT -8
The IRS panel before the committee appear to be defending Apple's practices. Levin should shut up.
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Post by nathanstevens on May 21, 2013 10:19:45 GMT -8
And yeah, Apple is really enjoying those "patent protections" Senator Fat Dunderhead. Too bad Cook didn't point out, "Actually, Senator, we're getting ripped off shamelessly by our competitors, as you have completely fucked up the patent system as well." TC did discuss the IP protection issues: "For us, our intellectual property is so important to our company," Cook said. "I would love to see the system strengthened to protect it." Link
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Post by phoebear611 on May 21, 2013 10:23:19 GMT -8
Sen. Levin is an effing idiot .... why are we giving him free healthcare for the rest of his life and a pension when he has done crap?!
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2013 10:23:39 GMT -8
Not being critical of you specifically, but your statement underlines the gross misunderstanding of the impact of taxing production. Elimination of production taxes on US produced goods would reduce the cost of those goods by ~25%. Applying a consumption tax on top of that lowered cost would result in virtually the same ASP as before. By adopting the SAME tax policy as our foreign competitors, the ASP of items produced outside of the US would increase, making US produced goods more competitive domestically and internationally. I'm taking a cynical view here. You're assuming that US domestic companies will pass 100% of their tax savings to their consumers, whereas I think the companies will charge the same price, and let the politicians take the fall for the added VAT. That's an easy and erroneous assumption on your part. What you envision hasn't happened anywhere in the democratic/capitalist world. Manufacturers are in constant search of cost benefit, its called capitalism (def. efficient use of capital). Consumers are also practitioners of the efficient use of capital. The consumer cares not a twit why something costs what it does, they care only for what it costs in relation to what they can get from a competitor. It is that dynamic that is pushing US consumers to foreign made products, that have a huge cost (tax) advantage. Can you imagine what the Galaxy S4 would cost in the US, if it were burdened with an embedded 25% (equivalent US tax burden) Korean production tax?
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Post by rob_london on May 21, 2013 10:35:46 GMT -8
I have a deep worry that Apple's position as the world's most valuable global brand has been dealt a fatal blow now that it has become public knowledge that Sen. Levin has an iPhone.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2013 10:37:24 GMT -8
I have a deep worry that Apple's position as the world's most valuable global brand has been dealt a fatal blow now that it has become public knowledge that Sen. Levin has an iPhone. ROTFLMFAO
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2013 11:11:00 GMT -8
Given the responses and body language to Levin's closing questioning, I'd venture that Levin broke from what the script called for. Clearly, Levin wasn't searching for illegal behavior, but rather that Apple could CHOOSE to pay higher taxes, IF THEY WANTED TO, the implication being that by not paying higher taxes Apple was guilty of shirking a fiduciary responsibility to the US.
Only a tax and spend liberal could rationalize that logic.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2013 11:24:29 GMT -8
I am imagining that the word "shift" was pushed into many of Levin's witness's talking points. Shift, shift, shift... Can anyone use the word "transfer"? Shift = Political Buzzword for an action that didn't occur. Shift (def.) to move from one position to another. The revenue/profits under questioned by Levin were made OUTSIDE the purview of US tax laws, i.e., revenue from Chinese produced goods sold in Europe and recorded in Ireland. No other country taxes transactions of this sort. Only a blowhard, whose political career can only be described as anti- US manufacturing, could assert a legal authority over them.
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Post by pauls on May 21, 2013 12:02:51 GMT -8
Pocket post edit
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Post by macwire on May 21, 2013 12:03:32 GMT -8
What a quiet weird day. Held 440 or so.
Google still bull flaggin...
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Post by qualitywte on May 21, 2013 12:08:07 GMT -8
Why was TC called to testify? Was it because they wish to improve the tax system and consider his opinion of value?
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Post by phoebear611 on May 21, 2013 12:11:27 GMT -8
Why was TC called to testify? Was it because they wish to improve the tax system and consider his opinion of value? I think Congress is predisposed into thinking they already know it all but I'm guessing they (AAPL) were highlighted when they stated that they were paying the dividend and doing the buy back through a loan because the cash is offshore. This got the wood burning and those idiots thinking...and of course, it would help (they thought) get scrutiny away from the lousy time they're having in popularity. But frankly, I believe it backfired. That's my WAG.
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Post by wheeles on May 21, 2013 12:15:12 GMT -8
Why was TC called to testify? Was it because they wish to improve the tax system and consider his opinion of value? No, just members of a government that is bankrupt both morally and financially attempting to squeeze cash out of anyone seen to have a lot of it thanks to their own good sense and hard work. This is not about clever tax planning by companies, but the inability of politicians and bureaucrats to stop spending other people's money like a bunch of drunken sailors, and their sense of entitlement that makes them think that they can simply demand more and more and more.
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Post by qualitywte on May 21, 2013 12:20:04 GMT -8
Why was TC called to testify? Was it because they wish to improve the tax system and consider his opinion of value? I think Congress is predisposed into thinking they already know it all but I'm guessing they (AAPL) were highlighted when they stated that they were paying the dividend and doing the buy back through a loan because the cash is offshore. This got the wood burning and those idiots thinking...and of course, it would help (they thought) get scrutiny away from the lousy time they're having in popularity. But frankly, I believe it backfired. That's my WAG. Yeah, I think you're right, basically, they are posturing and grandstanding in order to bolster their positions. As far as backfiring, yeah, they look like idiots, but hey, they don't seem to let that stop them from continuing to do it. The sad part is the congress is paralyzed and will not use any of the information they gather to move the ball. Gridlock rules!
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JDSoCal
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Post by JDSoCal on May 21, 2013 12:22:44 GMT -8
Why was TC called to testify? Was it because they wish to improve the tax system and consider his opinion of value? From Wikipedia: The term show trial is a pejorative description of a type of highly public trial in which there is a strong connotation that the judicial authorities have already determined the guilt of the defendant. The actual trial has as its only goal to present the accusation and the verdict to the public as an impressive example and as a warning to other would-be dissidents or transgressors. Show trials tend to be retributive rather than correctional justice and also conducted for propagandistic purposes. The term was first recorded in the 1930s.
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JDSoCal
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Aspiring oligarch
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Post by JDSoCal on May 21, 2013 12:27:26 GMT -8
The sad part is the congress is paralyzed and will not use any of the information they gather to move the ball. Gridlock rules! The sad part is that the IRS has just admitted to the systematic abuse of 501 non-profit groups, and the former head of that office - now running the Obamacare wing of the IRS - just asserted her 5th Amendment right not to testify before Congress. So, instead of wasting their time and Apple's CEO's time on this show trial, Levin and his Band O' Dumbfucks could have been investigating that, with their US Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations.
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Post by redinaustin on May 21, 2013 12:43:20 GMT -8
Just wanna point out - this would've gone a lot worse if Steve Jobs were sitting at that table...he'd have come across as arrogant and disrespectful, except that frankly the committee wouldn't even have dared call him to testify in the first place. But that's not Cook's fault. If Steve Jobs were sitting at that table it would have been prime time pay-per-view!
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Post by phoebear611 on May 21, 2013 12:47:38 GMT -8
Been aggravated all day over all this Senate/AAPL stuff but I just read a tweet from Jim Dalrymple and burst out laughing....here it is:
"Some say that they saw Gene Munster outside the Senate screaming nonstop: "Ask them about the iTV!! They're under oath!!"
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Post by rob_london on May 21, 2013 12:50:56 GMT -8
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2013 13:09:31 GMT -8
email to John McCain
As a life long fiscal conservative and registered Republican, I was embarrassed by your questioning of Tim Cook (Apple CEO), and your defense of Senator Levine. The problem isn't Apple's pursuit of tax avoidance (which the Supreme Court has affirmed is every citizen's right, if not duty), but the archaic, complex, bloated tax code, written by a politically motivated Congress without regard to its impact on US competitiveness abroad, and how that negatively impacts the American worker. We operate in a market that is no longer defined by nation-state borders. Goods produced in China, Indonesia or Europe today, are on US store shelves tomorrow. US manufacturers are not competing with other US manufacturers, but with manufacturers on the other side of the world. Most importantly, they are also competing against foreign government tax policy that encourages work, savings and export manufacturing. The tone of yours and Senator Levine's questioning of Apple executives was, at best, pure grandstanding. At its worst it reflected a complete lack of understanding of the world we live in today. Instead of defending Senator Levine, I suggest you apologize to Senator Paul for suggesting that his comments were out of line. Blunt though they were they were spot on.
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Post by cbingle on May 21, 2013 13:22:56 GMT -8
Gregg: I hope you put that in multiple paragraphs, because I do not think anyone in government has an attention span beyond two sentences.
Other than that, GREAT e-mail!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2013 13:34:00 GMT -8
email to Carl Levine
I wish to thank Sen. Levine for exposing that our tax revenue problem is the result of archaic federal tax policy that does nothing to encourage work, savings and export manufacturing. Obviously Sen. Levine has an agenda that does not include the welfare of the American worker. Sen. Levine should retire before doing more damage to the American economy.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2013 13:38:04 GMT -8
Gregg: I hope you put that in multiple paragraphs, because I do not think anyone in government has an attention span beyond two sentences. Other than that, GREAT e-mail! I properly punctuated my email. What you see is how it was formatted by McCain's email contact form. Levine's contact form limits the writer to "25" words or less. See my email to him. I had to edit my comments HEAVILY to get it to fit within the comment section. Now there's a guy that really wants to hear from his constituents.
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Post by cbingle on May 21, 2013 13:47:59 GMT -8
25 words is maximum comprehension...or should I say maximum attention span.
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Mav
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Post by Mav on May 21, 2013 13:53:36 GMT -8
Cook, Oppenheimer and Bullock generally acquitted themselves well today, I think.
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Post by sponge on May 21, 2013 14:17:15 GMT -8
The funny part is at this hearing the politicians did most of the talking instead of listening.
The stock ran out buyers, otherwise we would have finished green.
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Post by joel90069 on May 21, 2013 14:20:24 GMT -8
email to Carl Levine I wish to thank Sen. Levine for exposing that our tax revenue problem is the result of archaic federal tax policy that does nothing to encourage work, savings and export manufacturing. Obviously Sen. Levine has an agenda that does not include the welfare of the American worker. Sen. Levine should retire before doing more damage to the American economy. It's Levin, not Levine, in case you haven't sent yet.
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