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Post by cbingle on Dec 6, 2013 12:53:01 GMT -8
No sense stopping at the $565 pin when you can hit the $560 on the head. Booyah...
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Post by archibaldtuttle on Dec 6, 2013 12:54:37 GMT -8
So who still doesn't believe in pinning?
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Post by joel90069 on Dec 6, 2013 12:57:17 GMT -8
How many times does this have to happen before people stop buying weeklies?
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Post by mcharliem on Dec 6, 2013 13:03:36 GMT -8
So who still doesn't believe in pinning? The more interesting question is: Are the people on here who constantly talk about pinning, actually bothering to profit from it? Buying a butterfly can result in huge returns in a very short period of time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 13:05:33 GMT -8
So who still doesn't believe in pinning? Pinning perhaps...Evil Overlords who sit in their Ivory Tower while on Conference Calls with the Evil Overlords at the Other Major Banks while they plan together on how to screw over Apple Weekly/Monthly call buyers...yep, I'm not sure if they exist. We've went over this many, many times...there's a reason it pins on Option Expiry and it has nothing to do with Evil Overlords planning to screw Apple holders over.
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Post by archibaldtuttle on Dec 6, 2013 13:08:22 GMT -8
It seems clear that the market mechanics of weekly option closing creates pressure to close near particular strikes. The fact that the close today happened within .003% of a strike that represented a large majority of call and put buyers seems obviously beyond coincidence.
But personally, as I said the last time someone posed this question, I have no interest in butterflies because I don't like trading short term options.
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Post by mace on Dec 6, 2013 13:09:32 GMT -8
The more interesting question is: Are the people on here who constantly talk about pinning, actually bothering to profit from it? Buying a butterfly can result in huge returns in a very short period of time. ;D
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Post by archibaldtuttle on Dec 6, 2013 13:12:56 GMT -8
So who still doesn't believe in pinning? Pinning perhaps...Evil Overlords who sit in their Ivory Tower while on Conference Calls with the Evil Overlords at the Other Major Banks while they plan together on how to screw over Apple Weekly/Monthly call buyers...yep, I'm not sure if they exist. We've went over this many, many times...there's a reason it pins on Option Expiry and it has nothing to do with Evil Overlords planning to screw Apple holders over. Who said anything about Evil Overlords?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 13:15:15 GMT -8
So who still doesn't believe in pinning? Pinning perhaps...Evil Overlords who sit in their Ivory Tower while on Conference Calls with the Evil Overlords at the Other Major Banks while they plan together on how to screw over Apple Weekly/Monthly call buyers...yep, I'm not sure if they exist. We've went over this many, many times...there's a reason it pins on Option Expiry and it has nothing to do with Evil Overlords planning to screw Apple holders over. The theory sounds rational, until you start to see how it doesn't seem to have a similar effect on many other large companies, and how most pinning occurrences on Friday close seem to be negative for the share price (shouldn't it be 50/50 positive/negative?) maybe I'm just jealous of the GOOG pin today, up 12.50 to close at $1070.
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Post by archibaldtuttle on Dec 6, 2013 13:18:45 GMT -8
The theory sounds rational, until you start to see how it doesn't seem to have a similar effect on many other large companies, and how most pinning occurrences on Friday close seem to be negative for the share price (shouldn't it be 50/50 positive/negative?) (a) AAPL trades many many more options than any other company so it makes sense that it would have more of an effect on AAPL (b) Many many more weekly calls than puts are traded, so when the options unwind at the end of a week, it creates lots of selling pressure, hence the downdrafts on Fridays. Google Travis Lewis's "poorman's algo" for more data
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 13:20:03 GMT -8
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 13:21:02 GMT -8
The theory sounds rational, until you start to see how it doesn't seem to have a similar effect on many other large companies, and how most pinning occurrences on Friday close seem to be negative for the share price (shouldn't it be 50/50 positive/negative?) (a) AAPL trades many many more options than any other company so it makes sense that it would have more of an effect on AAPL (b) Many many more weekly calls than puts are traded, so when the options unwind at the end of a week, it creates lots of selling pressure, hence the downdrafts on Fridays. Google Travis Lewis's "poorman's algo" for more data Sadly, this makes a lot of sense.
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Post by artman1033 on Dec 6, 2013 13:21:06 GMT -8
FWIW: an answer to a query from early this week. Internet speed as tested on: www.speedtest.net/I have COMCAST. Identical tests taken 1 minute apart. safari (5.06) 22.23 MPS FIREFOX (16.02) 29.99 MPS
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 13:23:44 GMT -8
The theory sounds rational, until you start to see how it doesn't seem to have a similar effect on many other large companies, and how most pinning occurrences on Friday close seem to be negative for the share price (shouldn't it be 50/50 positive/negative?) (a) AAPL trades many many more options than any other company so it makes sense that it would have more of an effect on AAPL (b) Many many more weekly calls than puts are traded, so when the options unwind at the end of a week, it creates lots of selling pressure, hence the downdrafts on Fridays. Google Travis Lewis's "poorman's algo" for more data Correct!
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Post by sponge on Dec 6, 2013 14:10:17 GMT -8
(a) AAPL trades many many more options than any other company so it makes sense that it would have more of an effect on AAPL (b) Many many more weekly calls than puts are traded, so when the options unwind at the end of a week, it creates lots of selling pressure, hence the downdrafts on Fridays. Google Travis Lewis's "poorman's algo" for more data Correct! I agree. I saw my spread almost expire worthless. Took action before close of market knowing that pinning was in full force. Did not want to risk a close under 560.
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coma
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Post by coma on Dec 6, 2013 14:49:22 GMT -8
...there's a reason it pins on Option Expiry and . . . it has nothing to do with Evil Overlords planning to screw Apple holders over. You've just crumpled my Tin Foil Hat . . .
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Post by theirishguy on Dec 6, 2013 15:03:29 GMT -8
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,189
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Post by JDSoCal on Dec 6, 2013 15:13:09 GMT -8
I see we have resumed our weekly Friday tradition of strawmen.
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Mav
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[img style="max-width:100%;" alt=" " src="http://www.forumup.it/images/smiles/simo.gif"]
Posts: 10,784
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Post by Mav on Dec 6, 2013 15:22:51 GMT -8
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