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Post by aapl4kiki on Jan 30, 2014 10:33:46 GMT -8
Like everyone, I was disappointed with the markets reaction to earnings, and i feel the same sense of frustration with the way WS treats Apple vs. the way they treat Amazon and Google. On the other hand life is not fair and it is up to us to find a way to deal with it. So let me make this suggestion...if the cognitive dissonance gets too strong, just buy a few shares of Amazon and Google. Not a lot, just enough to take the edge off when they move up. Think of it as a mental health investment. And hang in there, I think it is going to be a great year This drop was going to happen. Too many of us smoked the hopium. Too much money to be made with this yoyo POS stock. They found the one alleged weakness (guidance) and pounced. AAPL needs to stop breaking down unit sales. Fuck these guys. Since when is selling 51M of anything a bad quarter?
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Post by cbingle on Jan 30, 2014 10:34:39 GMT -8
Tim needs to be included in Steve Ballmer fame. seriously, no fanboy retort.
I expressed this before ER, that this was Tim's major moment to claim his fame. He failed miserably.
Apple is the MSFT. OK, their products are better, but Tim can only milk the money cow, like Balmer with Office.
Kinda sad....
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bud777
fire starter
Posts: 1,354
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Post by bud777 on Jan 30, 2014 10:35:21 GMT -8
Good luck sir. Diversify out. Identify new opportunities. There's a lot of growth still out there. And aapl will trade better. Some day. Emotional attachment to investments limits objectivity. Thanks. I am already diversified, but no other investment came close to the gains AAPL provided. Seriously thinking about investing in marijuana companies, the new growth industry. funny, I am thinking about investing in chain link fence companies for the same reason
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chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,433
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Post by chinacat on Jan 30, 2014 10:38:04 GMT -8
And the negativity and FUD, it is unmatched for any industry. For holy frigging sake, now there is an article out that claims one of Apple's flagship stores smells like BO. You beat me to it, rickag. I was going to mention it just for JD, because it comes from one of his favorites, Rocco "Pendejo" Pendola. "Does Your Apple Store Smell Like Body Odor?" I certainly can't argue with the AFBers cashing out to find more productive investments in the near term. We are fortunate to be in a position where the dividends provide enough income when combined with our other investments to enable us to be more patient and wait for the next up wave to start rotating out of AAPL. Call me Pollyanna, but I do believe that the fundamental business is too strong and that there are still too many talented people at Apple for that not to happen at least one more time.
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Post by pauls on Jan 30, 2014 10:40:02 GMT -8
Things have never seemed bleaker at the AFB. It's gotta be a bottom. I added shares today. My sympathies to those Apple lovers letting go of long held shares, it must be hard.
My best case predictions for the year--
iWatch-- not til fall at earliest. It will take time to get AZ sapphire plant into production, even though it's being fast-tracked. I wouldn't rule out an early announcement/unveiling, ala original iPhone. Why not? The competition is way behind.
Apple TV-- soon. While I would love it to solve the cable interface hell in my home, I doubt it will. But it will still be a wonder, and a step forward.
Payments-- Better be soon. That there are just now rumors of Paypal begging to be included makes me fear that industry negotiations are incomplete. Worrisome. But the upside of Apple actually delivering a payment solution that is quickly embraced, or at least elegant for early adopters, is huge.
Larger iPhone-- Definitely. I believe this will help to maintain numbers, contribute growth (growth not guaranteed). Either way it is important, imo.
I think Apple's services are the key the future, more than hardware. That is where the company will be truly judged by the market, and the best hope to regain a more enthusiastic PE. The hardware is expected, telegraphed, practically promised and WS yawns.
The hardware design is huge and important and central to their DNA and they will continue to lead and yes, innovate, but to be a good stock again, they need to dramatically step into services. The demand is huge (people who hate their cable and hate their banks and don't trust Google). Whatever the obstacles, buy their way over them.
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Post by artman1033 on Jan 30, 2014 10:44:21 GMT -8
ENJOY
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2014 10:46:29 GMT -8
Apple dropped because of terrible guidance, not because it reported $14.50. Where did I say AAPL dropped because of its earnings? I said AAPL dropped *despite* its earnings. So what is the point of spending billions of dollars buying back shares to get EPS beats if guidance is going to trump it? What did we get for it? And I don't buy the correlation of IBM buying back shares as proof it works. And I say this as a 20-year shareholder of IBM. IBM is off $45 from its high right now, BTW, because the economy sucks and it is a cyclical. No buyback will save IBM from that reality. Bottom line, it didn't work for Apple, and I would rather have received dividend checks with those billions. Now, if you want to argue we would have been hit even harder had we not beat EPS, by all means. But that is hardly a sustainable stock management strategy, having to spend billions to go down $50 instead of $100. You say it didn't work for Apple, but when Apple announced the increased 60B buyback, it was sitting in the high 300's or low 400's...so who's to say it didn't work? Even if you say it worked or didn't work, I would say a 9 month time interval and buying back around 5% of the stock is too small of a sample size. I used IBM as an example because they've shown they're "shareholder friendly" through buybacks and dividend increases. Would I prefer Apple just releasing new products and increasing EPS by 50% that way, of course...but I certainly don't believe Apple has any idea what to do with 122B sitting overseas and it's definitely not going to hurt the price of AAPL if there's a buyer with 90B sitting there waiting to buy every dip and never selling (retiring shares). Obviously Wall Street doesn't give any credit to 122B sitting overseas, so why even have it there? They'll probably add another 30B in the next Calendar year. What good does it do? Do I want to give the 30B or whatever to the US Government? Of course not...but it's not doing any good sitting over there multiplying every year hoping for a tax holiday which doesn't sound like it's coming.
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Post by cbingle on Jan 30, 2014 11:02:19 GMT -8
Imagine what AAPL could have bought for the 20 or 30B they used for buy backs.
No balls, no blue chips. The company did die with Steve...very sad....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2014 11:09:13 GMT -8
Imagine what AAPL could have bought for the 20 or 30B they used for buy backs. No balls, no blue chips. The company did die with Steve...very sad.... When did Steve ever buy a big company? Steve asked Warren Buffett was to do with the cash because he wasn't a fan of big acquisitions...Warren Buffet suggested buybacks as the best option for shareholders.
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Post by rob_london on Jan 30, 2014 11:12:29 GMT -8
Patently Apple: "Apple introduces us to a Major Financial System Beyond iWallet" "...On January 30, 2014, the US Patent & Trademark Office published a major patent application from Apple that reveals a new financial Systems Integration System." "The patent filing illustrates that Apple is investigating the whole financial matrix and not just the electronic wallet side of the equation. Apple's patent dives into creating a system to handle all sorts of loans, from student loans to Business-to-Business loans and everything in between." www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/01/apple-introduces-us-to-a-major-financial-system-beyond-iwallet.html#more
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Post by cbingle on Jan 30, 2014 11:15:11 GMT -8
less than a minute ago ReplyQuotePost by vitalogy80 on less than a minute ago
7 minutes ago cbingle said: Imagine what AAPL could have bought for the 20 or 30B they used for buy backs.
No balls, no blue chips. The company did die with Steve...very sad....
When did Steve ever buy a big company? Steve asked Warren Buffett was to do with the cash because he wasn't a fan of big acquisitions...Warren Buffet suggested buybacks as the best option for shareholders.
I believe Steve said on his death bed, "don't do what you think I would do". The company needs to think for itself. They are struggling with that.
Also, I believe Warren Buffet has made several big acquisitions. He just bought Heinz, among others.
Tim is lost. The BOD are no help.
Carl is probably wondering, WTF did I just get myself into....
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Post by appledoc on Jan 30, 2014 11:16:23 GMT -8
Not sure how some of you can continue to ignore the fact that Apple guided to a flat or even negative Q2 revenue and say that doesn't have anything to do with falling share price. Take the blinders off already.
But we'll be back. I am positive of that.
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Post by cbingle on Jan 30, 2014 11:16:52 GMT -8
Carl is probably wondering, WTF did I just get myself into....
I am wondering the same....
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Post by pauls on Jan 30, 2014 11:22:27 GMT -8
Patently Apple: "Apple introduces us to a Major Financial System Beyond iWallet" "...On January 30, 2014, the US Patent & Trademark Office published a major patent application from Apple that reveals a new financial Systems Integration System." "The patent filing illustrates that Apple is investigating the whole financial matrix and not just the electronic wallet side of the equation. Apple's patent dives into creating a system to handle all sorts of loans, from student loans to Business-to-Business loans and everything in between." www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/01/apple-introduces-us-to-a-major-financial-system-beyond-iwallet.html#moreWow!
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Post by pauls on Jan 30, 2014 11:25:46 GMT -8
Not sure how some of you can continue to ignore the fact that Apple guided to a flat or even negative Q2 revenue and say that doesn't have anything to do with falling share price. Take the blinders off already. But we'll be back. I am positive of that. Agreed. Guidance sucked. The market reacted. It's been priced in for now, this moment. What else you got? Do you see zero prospects? Are you just here to pull JD's chain?
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mark
fire starter
Posts: 1,574
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Post by mark on Jan 30, 2014 11:26:07 GMT -8
Imagine what AAPL could have bought for the 20 or 30B they used for buy backs. I'm trying to imagine ... any ideas people? I mean, they could have bought Motorola for $13B or so in 2012.
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Post by appledoc on Jan 30, 2014 11:34:07 GMT -8
Not sure how some of you can continue to ignore the fact that Apple guided to a flat or even negative Q2 revenue and say that doesn't have anything to do with falling share price. Take the blinders off already. But we'll be back. I am positive of that. Agreed. Guidance sucked. The market reacted. It's been priced in for now, this moment. What else you got? Do you see zero prospects? Are you just here to pull JD's chain? What do you mean? I'm still long-term bullish. Just intermediate bearish. Will probably take half the year before we see above 575. The impatient ones should diversify, like they should have done a long time ago.
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,189
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Post by JDSoCal on Jan 30, 2014 11:34:42 GMT -8
Patently Apple: "Apple introduces us to a Major Financial System Beyond iWallet" "...On January 30, 2014, the US Patent & Trademark Office published a major patent application from Apple that reveals a new financial Systems Integration System." "The patent filing illustrates that Apple is investigating the whole financial matrix and not just the electronic wallet side of the equation. Apple's patent dives into creating a system to handle all sorts of loans, from student loans to Business-to-Business loans and everything in between." www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/01/apple-introduces-us-to-a-major-financial-system-beyond-iwallet.html#moreInteresting. They have PayPal spooked. PayPal approaches Apple about integrating into mobile payment techImagine what AAPL could have bought for the 20 or 30B they used for buy backs. I'm trying to imagine ... any ideas people? I mean, they could have bought Motorola for $13B or so in 2012. Waze?
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Post by cbingle on Jan 30, 2014 11:36:22 GMT -8
I'm trying to imagine ... any ideas people? I mean, they could have bought Motorola for $13B or so in 2012
Could have bought you a toupee. ;-)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2014 11:39:23 GMT -8
less than a minute ago ReplyQuotePost by vitalogy80 on less than a minute ago 7 minutes ago cbingle said: Imagine what AAPL could have bought for the 20 or 30B they used for buy backs. No balls, no blue chips. The company did die with Steve...very sad.... When did Steve ever buy a big company? Steve asked Warren Buffett was to do with the cash because he wasn't a fan of big acquisitions...Warren Buffet suggested buybacks as the best option for shareholders. I believe Steve said on his death bed, "don't do what you think I would do". The company needs to think for itself. They are struggling with that. Also, I believe Warren Buffet has made several big acquisitions. He just bought Heinz, among others. Tim is lost. The BOD are no help. Carl is probably wondering, WTF did I just get myself into.... If you're just here to troll everyone, at least learn how to use the Quote button... I'm sure the reason Apple never bought any Tech companies is because the money they ask is outrageous when hardly any of them make any money. 3B+ for a Thermostat with a WiFi chip? Apple could build that itself without spending the 3B? Tesla? Is Apple a car company? Sure, Apple could buy a reasonably priced company like Heinz, but it's not in that business and all Tech Companies are priced at ridiculous levels. Apple could buy Pandora too, but why not just use the money to enhance iRadio? It's much cheaper to do it themselves.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2014 11:40:55 GMT -8
I'm trying to imagine ... any ideas people? I mean, they could have bought Motorola for $13B or so in 2012 Could have bought you a toupee. ;-) Can someone not just ban him? I have no issue with bearish opinions or anything, I've been bearish myself lately, but he's just a troll.
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bud777
fire starter
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Post by bud777 on Jan 30, 2014 11:53:07 GMT -8
Carl is probably wondering, WTF did I just get myself into.... I am wondering the same.... You have indicated that you are waiting for the next product announcement to bump the stock up and then you are getting out. I respect that decision, you have to consider your stress levels as well as potential profits. If you are sure you are going to do that, you must have a price in mind where you will sell. Why not sell January 16 calls at that strike price? You can make the money off the calls and the worst that will happen is that the shares will get called away. If Apple drops to 450 or 400, you just buy them back and do it again. If it goes up, you get out like you want. Either way you are a happy camper. The best part is that you protect yourself from the emotions from days like Monday. Your biggest concern will be that the profit from the options will push you over the $70,000 total and you will incur taxes. Annoying but hardly that stress inducing. At 57, life is too short to waste days worrying about the irrationality of the market Good luck whatever you decide
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Ted
fire starter
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Post by Ted on Jan 30, 2014 11:57:15 GMT -8
I'm trying to imagine ... any ideas people? I mean, they could have bought Motorola for $13B or so in 2012 Could have bought you a toupee. ;-) Can someone not just ban him? I have no issue with bearish opinions or anything, I've been bearish myself lately, but he's just a troll. Yeh, gotta agree. CBingle, what's yr point with the obnoxious comments? You're a 57 yr old child. iPad, might be time for a little moderation… por favor?
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
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Post by JDSoCal on Jan 30, 2014 11:58:46 GMT -8
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mark
fire starter
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Post by mark on Jan 30, 2014 12:20:28 GMT -8
I'm trying to imagine ... any ideas people? I mean, they could have bought Motorola for $13B or so in 2012. Waze? Waze might have been a good buy ... but that still remains to be seen. We still have yet to see the ROI of that billion dollar investment. But that's still besides the point. Even had Apple purchased Waze for $1B, the exact same complaint could be leveled regarding the use of the buyback money (because $1B is a drop in the bucket when compared to the large amount of cash that so many are complaining about).
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mark
fire starter
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Post by mark on Jan 30, 2014 12:23:15 GMT -8
I'm trying to imagine ... any ideas people? I mean, they could have bought Motorola for $13B or so in 2012. Could have bought you a toupee. ;-) LOL :-) (that really is the closest I could get the avatar to look like me)
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JDSoCal
Member
Aspiring oligarch
Posts: 4,189
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Post by JDSoCal on Jan 30, 2014 12:35:42 GMT -8
Waze might have been a good buy ... but that still remains to be seen. We still have yet to see the ROI of that billion dollar investment. But that's still besides the point. Even had Apple purchased Waze for $1B, the exact same complaint could be leveled regarding the use of the buyback money (because $1B is a drop in the bucket when compared to the large amount of cash that so many are complaining about). Of course Google wastes billions on flights of fancy, and that is questionable from a 10-K perspective. But the opposite point can be made about Microsoft. One critique of Ballmer's culture was his and his minions' insistence on all new products having immediate impact on the bottom line. So, the criticism goes, such a culture would have never have allowed an iTunes, for example, to exist. And of course we know iTunes became one of those ecosystem goodies that leads to Apple stickiness. Waze is a UX enhancement that Apple could have used to get a foothold in cars, IMO, regardless if it ever makes Google a dime on its own. Apple has made some good acquisitions. It now designs its own SoC's because of one of them, an enormous competitive advantage. It also has a fingerprint ID system because of another. Bottom line, you don't make acquisitions just to be spending money. But you don't judge acquisitions on immediate profit margins either.
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stub
Member
The fix is in. Be patient. Don't panic.
Posts: 300
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Post by stub on Jan 30, 2014 12:38:11 GMT -8
Dudes, It's like we've all dropped some bad Acid together. Relax, and get the B12. Why is Tim smiling like a Chesser Cat? Hmmm... right, still 10 Billion left inf Stock Buy Backs to go. Buy Low, Sell High. It's all going according to plan. Let's huddgle a little over 3 months from now and see where we are. Btw... I was in the Reno Apple store and... I DIDN'T SMELL ANY BO.
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Post by pauls on Jan 30, 2014 12:46:39 GMT -8
Agreed. Guidance sucked. The market reacted. It's been priced in for now, this moment. What else you got? Do you see zero prospects? Are you just here to pull JD's chain? What do you mean? I'm still long-term bullish. Just intermediate bearish. Will probably take half the year before we see above 575. The impatient ones should diversify, like they should have done a long time ago. Dang, sorry for that. I thought I was replying to cbingle, misread posts.
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Post by cbingle on Jan 30, 2014 12:52:35 GMT -8
about an hour ago cbingle said:
about an hour ago mark said: I'm trying to imagine ... any ideas people? I mean, they could have bought Motorola for $13B or so in 2012.
Could have bought you a toupee. ;-)
LOL :-)
(that really is the closest I could get the avatar to look like me)
Thanks for understanding my joke! Good for you. The rest of the trolls on this board have no sense of humor. STMF
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