Since84
Moderator
To infinity and beyond!
Posts: 3,933
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Post by Since84 on Nov 23, 2016 3:37:30 GMT -8
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Since84
Moderator
To infinity and beyond!
Posts: 3,933
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Post by Since84 on Nov 23, 2016 4:38:25 GMT -8
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Post by appledoc on Nov 23, 2016 4:44:18 GMT -8
Apple can keep capturing 100% of the smartphone profits. But what are they going to do next? $800 smartphones with 35% margins aren't going to be there forever for the company. Their roadmap is getting stale. Apple Watch 2 and the new Apple TV are incremental update duds. Touchbar Macs are outrageously expensive MacBooks with a gimmick that nobody actually needs. The iPad line is pretty much dead to your average consumer. There's no car coming.
So tell me, why should I invest any more long-term money in a stalled company with a paltry 2% dividend?
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Post by hledgard on Nov 23, 2016 5:55:46 GMT -8
Apple can keep capturing 100% of the smartphone profits. But what are they going to do next? $800 smartphones with 35% margins aren't going to be there forever for the company. Their roadmap is getting stale. Apple Watch 2 and the new Apple TV are incremental update duds. Touchbar Macs are outrageously expensive MacBooks with a gimmick that nobody actually needs. The iPad line is pretty much dead to your average consumer. There's no car coming. So tell me, why should I invest any more long-term money in a stalled company with a paltry 2% dividend? I agree. Makes me wonder. The touch bar is cool, but us it really useful? And the new keyboards on the MacBook Pro's are not so nice. Lighter - yes. And with large phones, the value of the iPad is diminished.
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Post by gtrplyr on Nov 23, 2016 7:00:18 GMT -8
Ok, I'll pile on.
We just recently built a new home and during the last week I was having an automation system installed. I got several bids and at every stage I asked about the "home kit" options .... no one used any of that technology. I ended up going with Control 4 which I've very happy with so far .... but it's becoming obvious to me that Apple either no longer cares about the living room or has moved on. After installing a brand new Sony 65" tv I was thinking I should upgrade to the new Apple TV, so I got in the car as the installers were at my house, about 10 minutes into my drive I realized I did not need any of the features as I can , and do, stream : Netflix, Hulu and Sling straight from the TV. I also purchased another TV for the guest room and it also is a smart TV that can do all of the above. My music comes from Sonos which is distributed through a few rooms in the house and works seamlessly with my Control 4 automation.
To make matters worse ... Control 4 has partnered with Amazon to integrate "Alexa" so now I can just speak and the house listens. No Apple option.
IF Apple gave a crap about this , and they should, they could have simply purchased Control 4 or any other automation player and got their foot in the door.
Finally, I'm still using the old Time Capsule and was thinking about upgrading . As you may or may not know, Apple has killed the router line and moved resources (engineers) into other areas . I've heard they are working on a Alexa type of controller for the home using "Siri" , regardless they are late to the party. So I guess I'll give my money to Asus or Linksys.
I know they can't possibly do everything but it does seem that the only thing that matters is the iPhone .... it's a scary thought for long term investors to see a company putting all of their eggs in one basket. The beauty of Apple was they had some real integration so they could really control the user experience, I don't see that going forward.
Cheers to the longs....
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Post by gtrplyr on Nov 23, 2016 7:04:06 GMT -8
Obviously from the outside it's hard to know what happened with Scott but I thought he was fantastic and had a vision. I miss him.
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Post by incorrigible on Nov 23, 2016 8:02:16 GMT -8
You do realize this forum thread is from Sep 24, 2014?
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Post by tuffett on Nov 23, 2016 9:00:21 GMT -8
Ok, I'll pile on. We just recently built a new home and during the last week I was having an automation system installed. I got several bids and at every stage I asked about the "home kit" options .... no one used any of that technology. I ended up going with Control 4 which I've very happy with so far .... but it's becoming obvious to me that Apple either no longer cares about the living room or has moved on. After installing a brand new Sony 65" tv I was thinking I should upgrade to the new Apple TV, so I got in the car as the installers were at my house, about 10 minutes into my drive I realized I did not need any of the features as I can , and do, stream : Netflix, Hulu and Sling straight from the TV. I also purchased another TV for the guest room and it also is a smart TV that can do all of the above. My music comes from Sonos which is distributed through a few rooms in the house and works seamlessly with my Control 4 automation. To make matters worse ... Control 4 has partnered with Amazon to integrate "Alexa" so now I can just speak and the house listens. No Apple option. IF Apple gave a crap about this , and they should, they could have simply purchased Control 4 or any other automation player and got their foot in the door. Finally, I'm still using the old Time Capsule and was thinking about upgrading . As you may or may not know, Apple has killed the router line and moved resources (engineers) into other areas . I've heard they are working on a Alexa type of controller for the home using "Siri" , regardless they are late to the party. So I guess I'll give my money to Asus or Linksys. I know they can't possibly do everything but it does seem that the only thing that matters is the iPhone .... it's a scary thought for long term investors to see a company putting all of their eggs in one basket. The beauty of Apple was they had some real integration so they could really control the user experience, I don't see that going forward. Cheers to the longs.... It's painfully clear that Apple is falling way behind on the next wave of technology. Cash is the only reason to stay in this stock. Innovation is rightfully valued as 0.
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Post by sponge on Nov 23, 2016 9:20:25 GMT -8
It should be noted that the Mac is over 30 years old. It has been priced well above the competition. Yet it was not too long ago that it was growing at 10%. Same thing will happen to the iPhone. It is OK to have one solid product. We have not peaked simply because people are still being born, go to school, and keep coming out with amazing technologies.
Given that we now rely on the iPhone more then our desktops, I think we have even more reason to be optimistic about the future.
I can not live without my iPhone. I communicate by text, FB, email, video, and phone. I use it to plan my day and year. I have over 35k pictures so it has become my life recording system. I pay for groceries, movies, and soon many other items. I trade stocks on it and read work related documents. I control my lock to my house and heater system. I use it to control Apple TV which can give me music and videos. Soon I will be able to use it as passport, driver license, and my key for my car. Soon it will become a medical device as it is linked to my Apple Watch.
It is secure and it lasts a long time. My son has the 5S and does not want to upgrade.
The future is very bright.
I think we judge the company based on stock price. Yes we are only up 10% in 4 years. But the company keeps growing and we still have lots of products that have yet to be released. The iPhone can keep us going easily for another 5 years with none of those products coming out.
We keep adding new stores and making our exciting stores bigger. We have yet to tap into many markets such as India, Brazil, Mexico, and Russia.
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Post by david on Nov 23, 2016 9:35:52 GMT -8
Ok, I'll pile on. We just recently built a new home and during the last week I was having an automation system installed. I got several bids and at every stage I asked about the "home kit" options .... no one used any of that technology. I ended up going with Control 4 which I've very happy with so far .... but it's becoming obvious to me that Apple either no longer cares about the living room or has moved on. After installing a brand new Sony 65" tv I was thinking I should upgrade to the new Apple TV, so I got in the car as the installers were at my house, about 10 minutes into my drive I realized I did not need any of the features as I can , and do, stream : Netflix, Hulu and Sling straight from the TV. I also purchased another TV for the guest room and it also is a smart TV that can do all of the above. My music comes from Sonos which is distributed through a few rooms in the house and works seamlessly with my Control 4 automation. To make matters worse ... Control 4 has partnered with Amazon to integrate "Alexa" so now I can just speak and the house listens. No Apple option. IF Apple gave a crap about this , and they should, they could have simply purchased Control 4 or any other automation player and got their foot in the door. Finally, I'm still using the old Time Capsule and was thinking about upgrading . As you may or may not know, Apple has killed the router line and moved resources (engineers) into other areas . I've heard they are working on a Alexa type of controller for the home using "Siri" , regardless they are late to the party. So I guess I'll give my money to Asus or Linksys. I know they can't possibly do everything but it does seem that the only thing that matters is the iPhone .... it's a scary thought for long term investors to see a company putting all of their eggs in one basket. The beauty of Apple was they had some real integration so they could really control the user experience, I don't see that going forward. Cheers to the longs.... It's painfully clear that Apple is falling way behind on the next wave of technology. Cash is the only reason to stay in this stock. Innovation is rightfully valued as 0. Please, tell us how you really feel. Again.
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bud777
fire starter
Posts: 1,352
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Post by bud777 on Nov 23, 2016 9:41:03 GMT -8
It should be noted that the Mac is over 30 years old. It has been priced well above the competition. Yet it was not too long ago that it was growing at 10%. Same thing will happen to the iPhone. It is OK to have one solid product. We have not peaked simply because people are still being born, go to school, and keep coming out with amazing technologies. Given that we now rely on the iPhone more then our desktops, I think we have even more reason to be optimistic about the future. I can not live without my iPhone. I communicate by text, FB, email, video, and phone. I use it to plan my day and year. I have over 35k pictures so it has become my life recording system. I pay for groceries, movies, and soon many other items. I trade stocks on it and read work related documents. I control my lock to my house and heater system. I use it to control Apple TV which can give me music and videos. Soon I will be able to use it as passport, driver license, and my key for my car. Soon it will become a medical device as it is linked to my Apple Watch. It is secure and it lasts a long time. My son has the 5S and does not want to upgrade. The future is very bright. I think we judge the company based on stock price. Yes we are only up 10% in 4 years. But the company keeps growing and we still have lots of products that have yet to be released. The iPhone can keep us going easily for another 5 years with none of those products coming out. We keep adding new stores and making our exciting stores bigger. We have yet to tap into many markets such as India, Brazil, Mexico, and Russia. I agree with Sponge. It is natural to be impatient about the company when we are really disappointed with the performance of the stock. The fact that Apple has absolutely dominated the iPhone market in terms of profit, led all meaningful innovation in the mobile space, and make the current WINTEL offerings look like something from the last century still does not satisfy us because we don't see the movement in the stock price that we want. So then we moan about replacing executives, or buying Tesla, or increasing the dividend to move the stock price. Anyone who has watched this stock for the past 5-10 years knows that none of these things really drives the stock. Not earnings, not guidance, not new products. Not even FUD really. The major moves in the past few years have been related to superficial factors that appeal to the uninformed investors. Icahn's investment, the stock split, China Mobile, in my opinion these were much more relevant to price movement than any technological or product based improvements. While there may be a rational reason for optimism, it is optimistic to expect rational behavior in this stock.
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Post by BillH on Nov 23, 2016 9:48:51 GMT -8
Ok, I'll pile on. We just recently built a new home and during the last week I was having an automation system installed. I got several bids and at every stage I asked about the "home kit" options .... no one used any of that technology. I ended up going with Control 4 which I've very happy with so far .... but it's becoming obvious to me that Apple either no longer cares about the living room or has moved on. After installing a brand new Sony 65" tv I was thinking I should upgrade to the new Apple TV, so I got in the car as the installers were at my house, about 10 minutes into my drive I realized I did not need any of the features as I can , and do, stream : Netflix, Hulu and Sling straight from the TV. I also purchased another TV for the guest room and it also is a smart TV that can do all of the above. My music comes from Sonos which is distributed through a few rooms in the house and works seamlessly with my Control 4 automation. To make matters worse ... Control 4 has partnered with Amazon to integrate "Alexa" so now I can just speak and the house listens. No Apple option. IF Apple gave a crap about this , and they should, they could have simply purchased Control 4 or any other automation player and got their foot in the door. Finally, I'm still using the old Time Capsule and was thinking about upgrading . As you may or may not know, Apple has killed the router line and moved resources (engineers) into other areas . I've heard they are working on a Alexa type of controller for the home using "Siri" , regardless they are late to the party. So I guess I'll give my money to Asus or Linksys. I know they can't possibly do everything but it does seem that the only thing that matters is the iPhone .... it's a scary thought for long term investors to see a company putting all of their eggs in one basket. The beauty of Apple was they had some real integration so they could really control the user experience, I don't see that going forward. Cheers to the longs.... It's nice to have people here who actually have some experience with this stuff and the ability to integrate it. Can I ask a few questions that I keep wondering about? My brother has a Sonos system and I ask him what the difference is between using that rather than a Mac and Airplay? Don't you have to use a dedicated Sonos receiver and/or amplifier. If so, how do you feel about that? My brother in law has a Crestron system in two homes that seem to be a continual struggle but may be better now that they've switched to iPads. As for myself, I keep taking systems apart for ease of use rather than have one system to rule them all. As an example I put receivers and speaker systems with each TV. They all have an AppleTV so I can send music throughout the house to each but they're much easier to run. It feels to me that this is still a TINY market and there is loads of time to get it right but it's not my focus. I suggested to my daughter that if she wants to learn programming she might consider Swift and it's learning tools. She runs software teams @ Intuit and says that she sees little adoption of Swift in the Valley. I presume we've all seen Horace Deidu's chart of the rapidly rising portable market juxtaposed with the declining desktop market. It strikes me as less than believable that Swift isn't starting to have some impact. It may well be that Apple is a company in decline and I just don't know it. It also may well be that all of their initiatives, home kit, CarPlay, watch/medical, Swift, Siri, augmented reality, OSX, iOS, coalesce in some entirely unexpected way. How do it know?
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Post by appledoc on Nov 23, 2016 9:49:11 GMT -8
I haven't been in the stock with the exception of an occasional trade here and there for almost four years now. My comments were motivated by the boring products Apple has been releasing for years.
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Post by deasys on Nov 23, 2016 10:28:21 GMT -8
It's painfully clear that Apple is falling way behind on the next wave of technology. Really? What is "the next wave of technology" and who is leading the charge?
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Post by tuffett on Nov 23, 2016 12:28:33 GMT -8
It's painfully clear that Apple is falling way behind on the next wave of technology. Really? What is "the next wave of technology" and who is leading the charge? Social, cloud and AI and the living room. Beautiful hardware just doesn't cut it anymore because everyone can do it. Apple still does it better, of course, but the huge competitive advantage is no longer there.
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Post by deasys on Nov 23, 2016 13:18:59 GMT -8
Really? What is "the next wave of technology" and who is leading the charge? Social, cloud and AI and the living room. Beautiful hardware just doesn't cut it anymore because everyone can do it. Apple still does it better, of course, but the huge competitive advantage is no longer there. I think Apple is thinking much bigger and much further ahead than those things. It may use cloud and AI but those are not goals for Apple. Sometimes, skating to where the puck will be takes a long time…
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Post by tuffett on Nov 23, 2016 14:15:27 GMT -8
Social, cloud and AI and the living room. Beautiful hardware just doesn't cut it anymore because everyone can do it. Apple still does it better, of course, but the huge competitive advantage is no longer there. I think Apple is thinking much bigger and much further ahead than those things. It may use cloud and AI but those are not goals for Apple. Sometimes, skating to where the puck will be takes a long time… The future will require all of this, so if Apple can't even figure ou the basics of cloud computing and improving Siri how can they expect to leapfrog it? Apple's failed TV negotiations are a big red flag, IMO. AppleTV has very little compelling value compared to competing devices.
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Post by BillH on Nov 23, 2016 14:18:53 GMT -8
Really? What is "the next wave of technology" and who is leading the charge? Social, cloud and AI and the living room. Beautiful hardware just doesn't cut it anymore because everyone can do it. Apple still does it better, of course, but the huge competitive advantage is no longer there. Look, I love a contrarian outlook and have spent much of my life playing that role but I've at least tried to understand the ground I was attempting to re-fashion. You've totally lost me with this one...,"Beautiful hardware just doesn't cut it anymore". The very LAST thing I view Apple as is a hardware company. LAST! (others opinions may vary of course)
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Post by BillH on Nov 23, 2016 14:41:53 GMT -8
I think Apple is thinking much bigger and much further ahead than those things. It may use cloud and AI but those are not goals for Apple. Sometimes, skating to where the puck will be takes a long time… The future will require all of this, so if Apple can't even figure ou the basics of cloud computing and improving Siri how can they expect to leapfrog it? Apple's failed TV negotiations are a big red flag, IMO. AppleTV has very little compelling value compared to competing devices. I thought I read that with iCloud, iTunes, and the App store that Apple was the largest cloud presence on the web. Anyway you look at it they're pretty damn big serving a diversity of material that makes them somewhat different from the dedicated guys. As far as their "failed" TV negotiations went, no one else has cracked what we all presume is the deal they were chasing which is...,any program one desires at anytime at a cost that is substantially less than cable. The content providers are clearly unwilling to break the cable bond and I can't imagine why they would. All the deals I've seen are as much of a kludge as Apples even if they all have their own focus.
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chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,427
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Post by chinacat on Nov 23, 2016 16:15:25 GMT -8
From the article: "The reality is that Spectacles aren’t going to be big business for Snap, at least not anytime soon. The company wouldn’t sell them out of vending machines if it was trying to make money here. But Spectacles are giving Snap a new wave of momentum just before it plans to IPO — and the idea that it could sell a lot of glasses has been planted in everyone’s mind. And that feeling isn’t ephemeral." Why do I have the feeling that if Apple did something equivalent they would be excoriated in this forum?
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Post by david on Nov 23, 2016 16:56:13 GMT -8
Why do I have the feeling that if Apple did something equivalent they would be excoriated in this forum? Indeed. I used to come to AFB to find the truth in regard FUD articles. By the time I got here, someone would have already dissected the article and proven its absurdity. Now, no such thing happens and the people posting, post FUD. No sources cited, no facts stated. Just opinion: "Apple is bad and incompetent". This from people who admit they no longer own shares. You know, intent is no longer needed for a troll to be a troll. Just a constant "waaah".
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Post by tuffett on Nov 23, 2016 17:11:13 GMT -8
Social, cloud and AI and the living room. Beautiful hardware just doesn't cut it anymore because everyone can do it. Apple still does it better, of course, but the huge competitive advantage is no longer there. Look, I love a contrarian outlook and have spent much of my life playing that role but I've at least tried to understand the ground I was attempting to re-fashion. You've totally lost me with this one...,"Beautiful hardware just doesn't cut it anymore". The very LAST thing I view Apple as is a hardware company. LAST! (others opinions may vary of course) Apple specializes in hardware design and UI. That's been their major competitive advantage for a long, long time. Operatijg systems are another but that ties into UI along with hardware. What does Apple do better in the cloud or services space than anybody else? Nothing that I can think of.
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Post by tuffett on Nov 23, 2016 17:13:12 GMT -8
Why do I have the feeling that if Apple did something equivalent they would be excoriated in this forum? Indeed. I used to come to AFB to find the truth in regard FUD articles. By the time I got here, someone would have already dissected the article and proven its absurdity. Now, no such thing happens and the people posting, post FUD. No sources cited, no facts stated. Just opinion: "Apple is bad and incompetent". This from people who admit they no longer own shares. You know, intent is no longer needed for a troll to be a troll. Just a constant "waaah". Don't see many facts coming from your end, either. The reality is that Apple's current trajectory and future success can only be a matter of opinion. No need to get upset if there are opinions you disagree with. PS: Who here doesn't own shares? All I've seen is people reducing their stake and no longer reinvesting dividends. Myself, I cut down my position but still own a lot of shares relative to my overall portfolio. Talk about facts...
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Post by appledoc on Nov 23, 2016 19:23:32 GMT -8
Is the onus not on you guys to provide reasons why this company is still worth investing in? I've watched them largely do nothing for years, and the stock reflects that. Haven't replaced my iPhone since September 2014. Haven't replaced my iPad since March 2012. MacBook was replaced in 2013, but don't think I'll need a new one next year. Skipped the new Apple TV because it served no needed benefit over the old TV. Skipped both watches because they're useless as long as they require tethering to the iPhone.
You're kidding yourself if you think I'm alone in these feelings. Yes, the company still makes absurd profits. But they need a new home run if they want to hold their place as the most valuable company in the world.
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Post by gtrplyr on Nov 23, 2016 19:58:57 GMT -8
Ok, I'll pile on. We just recently built a new home and during the last week I was having an automation system installed. I got several bids and at every stage I asked about the "home kit" options .... no one used any of that technology. I ended up going with Control 4 which I've very happy with so far .... but it's becoming obvious to me that Apple either no longer cares about the living room or has moved on. After installing a brand new Sony 65" tv I was thinking I should upgrade to the new Apple TV, so I got in the car as the installers were at my house, about 10 minutes into my drive I realized I did not need any of the features as I can , and do, stream : Netflix, Hulu and Sling straight from the TV. I also purchased another TV for the guest room and it also is a smart TV that can do all of the above. My music comes from Sonos which is distributed through a few rooms in the house and works seamlessly with my Control 4 automation. To make matters worse ... Control 4 has partnered with Amazon to integrate "Alexa" so now I can just speak and the house listens. No Apple option. IF Apple gave a crap about this , and they should, they could have simply purchased Control 4 or any other automation player and got their foot in the door. Finally, I'm still using the old Time Capsule and was thinking about upgrading . As you may or may not know, Apple has killed the router line and moved resources (engineers) into other areas . I've heard they are working on a Alexa type of controller for the home using "Siri" , regardless they are late to the party. So I guess I'll give my money to Asus or Linksys. I know they can't possibly do everything but it does seem that the only thing that matters is the iPhone .... it's a scary thought for long term investors to see a company putting all of their eggs in one basket. The beauty of Apple was they had some real integration so they could really control the user experience, I don't see that going forward. Cheers to the longs.... It's nice to have people here who actually have some experience with this stuff and the ability to integrate it. Can I ask a few questions that I keep wondering about? My brother has a Sonos system and I ask him what the difference is between using that rather than a Mac and Airplay? Don't you have to use a dedicated Sonos receiver and/or amplifier. If so, how do you feel about that? My brother in law has a Crestron system in two homes that seem to be a continual struggle but may be better now that they've switched to iPads. As for myself, I keep taking systems apart for ease of use rather than have one system to rule them all. As an example I put receivers and speaker systems with each TV. They all have an AppleTV so I can send music throughout the house to each but they're much easier to run. It feels to me that this is still a TINY market and there is loads of time to get it right but it's not my focus. I suggested to my daughter that if she wants to learn programming she might consider Swift and it's learning tools. She runs software teams @ Intuit and says that she sees little adoption of Swift in the Valley. I presume we've all seen Horace Deidu's chart of the rapidly rising portable market juxtaposed with the declining desktop market. It strikes me as less than believable that Swift isn't starting to have some impact. It may well be that Apple is a company in decline and I just don't know it. It also may well be that all of their initiatives, home kit, CarPlay, watch/medical, Swift, Siri, augmented reality, OSX, iOS, coalesce in some entirely unexpected way. How do it know? I'll try my best to answer your questions. With regards to the Sonos, yes I purchased the "Connect Amp" which is a small unit that can access many music servers, I use Apple music but you could also use Pandora, Spotify or a host of others. It is hardwired to speakers mounted in the ceiling and is great for ambient music. I could have used a 2nd zone in my home theater receiver to accomplish the same thing but it would have been more hardware to integrate ... I like this because it's a stand alone system. I wake up , walk into the kitchen and grab my iPhone, pull up the sonos app and select what I want to hear and bam it's playing. It couldn't be easier and now anyone in the family can download the app, log in and they can also do the same ... just beginning to discover all of the cool things it can do so stay tuned and I'll post an update in a few weeks. If I used my receiver I'd have to turn it on, select the zone and if the receiver itself didn't have the capability to stream music I'd have to connect an Apple TV to it to stream ... it would work but it's a pain. One other thing ... it's not actually streaming to my phone but the sonos receiver is the unit that is streaming and the iPhone turns into a simple controller ... pretty cool as I can still use the phone for calls or texting or whatever and sonos is in the background controlling the "Connect Amp". As far as the other stuff goes, I think this connected home idea is the wave of the future and Apple should have tried to be one the leading edge of this .... they had the Apple TV in place a long time ago and it just never got to the next level. I even sent emails to Steve Jobs years ago suggesting improvements ... never heard back. I bought the original Apple TV the 1st day it was out ... right after they got the shipment and was really into it .... back then it did a LOT less but people would come over and see all of my pics up on the TV with music playing and wonder how I did it. I had high hopes for this product and you can imagine my disappointment when I realized I really didn't need it anymore .... maybe to stream photos but that's it. Instead of Apple jumping on a company that does this kind of stuff, which they could have purchased for little money , they buy Beats ..... maybe they make money but it's a stupid headphone company .... they could have easily built a better wireless headphone with the money spent on R&D instead. For 3 Billion they could have purchased a home automation company and home audio .... all seamlessly integrated into the Apple eco system, just imagine how nice that would be. Despite my recent disappointments I'm holding out hope that they are looking at the bigger picture and seeing something that I'm completely missing .... let's hope so. Happy Thanksgiving to all .... I'm sure we all have a lot to be thankful for.
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chinacat
Moderator
AAPL Long since 2006
Posts: 4,427
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Post by chinacat on Nov 23, 2016 20:48:51 GMT -8
Is the onus not on you guys to provide reasons why this company is still worth investing in? I can't speak for anyone else, but I am not here to give anyone investing advice. I am here to gather/share information about a company whose products I have owned and enjoyed, and to stay up to date with its fortunes and our investment therein. If my participation sways the opinions about the company for any other investors, that is an consequence unintended on my part.
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Post by BillH on Nov 23, 2016 20:48:58 GMT -8
Apple specializes in hardware design and UI. That's been their major competitive advantage for a long, long time. Operatijg systems are another but that ties into UI along with hardware. Now at least we're getting somewhere. Billions have been spent chasing Apple since their inception. To this day no one, NO ONE, has yet to do those things better than Apple. They make all the money in phones while making the very best phone. They make most of the money in computers while making the very best computers. They own the worlds largest music distribution company. They are second to Rolex, ROLEX, in worldwide sales of watches. Oh...,you're right...,they suck.
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Post by BillH on Nov 23, 2016 20:57:23 GMT -8
I'll try my best to answer your questions. With regards to the Sonos, yes I purchased the "Connect Amp" which is a small unit that can access many music servers, I use Apple music but you could also use Pandora, Spotify or a host of others. It is hardwired to speakers mounted in the ceiling and is great for ambient music. I could have used a 2nd zone in my home theater receiver to accomplish the same thing but it would have been more hardware to integrate ... I like this because it's a stand alone system. I wake up , walk into the kitchen and grab my iPhone, pull up the sonos app and select what I want to hear and bam it's playing. It couldn't be easier and now anyone in the family can download the app, log in and they can also do the same ... just beginning to discover all of the cool things it can do so stay tuned and I'll post an update in a few weeks. If I used my receiver I'd have to turn it on, select the zone and if the receiver itself didn't have the capability to stream music I'd have to connect an Apple TV to it to stream ... it would work but it's a pain. One other thing ... it's not actually streaming to my phone but the sonos receiver is the unit that is streaming and the iPhone turns into a simple controller ... pretty cool as I can still use the phone for calls or texting or whatever and sonos is in the background controlling the "Connect Amp". As far as the other stuff goes, I think this connected home idea is the wave of the future and Apple should have tried to be one the leading edge of this .... they had the Apple TV in place a long time ago and it just never got to the next level. I even sent emails to Steve Jobs years ago suggesting improvements ... never heard back. I bought the original Apple TV the 1st day it was out ... right after they got the shipment and was really into it .... back then it did a LOT less but people would come over and see all of my pics up on the TV with music playing and wonder how I did it. I had high hopes for this product and you can imagine my disappointment when I realized I really didn't need it anymore .... maybe to stream photos but that's it. Instead of Apple jumping on a company that does this kind of stuff, which they could have purchased for little money , they buy Beats ..... maybe they make money but it's a stupid headphone company .... they could have easily built a better wireless headphone with the money spent on R&D instead. For 3 Billion they could have purchased a home automation company and home audio .... all seamlessly integrated into the Apple eco system, just imagine how nice that would be. Despite my recent disappointments I'm holding out hope that they are looking at the bigger picture and seeing something that I'm completely missing .... let's hope so. Happy Thanksgiving to all .... I'm sure we all have a lot to be thankful for. Thanks for taking the time to respond. You're right that Sonos is easier to run than what I'm doing. The rest we'll just have to wait on. I continue to believe that Apple is plenty early with HomeKit but whether it grabs hold is another matter.
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Post by BillH on Nov 23, 2016 21:22:00 GMT -8
Is the onus not on you guys to provide reasons why this company is still worth investing in? I've watched them largely do nothing for years, and the stock reflects that. Haven't replaced my iPhone since September 2014. Haven't replaced my iPad since March 2012. MacBook was replaced in 2013, but don't think I'll need a new one next year. Skipped the new Apple TV because it served no needed benefit over the old TV. Skipped both watches because they're useless as long as they require tethering to the iPhone. You're kidding yourself if you think I'm alone in these feelings. Yes, the company still makes absurd profits. But they need a new home run if they want to hold their place as the most valuable company in the world. I don't think you're alone in your feelings. Quite the contrary, I believe it's the majority viewpoint but I'll try and take up the challenge of convincing you that Apple is still worth investing in. My premise is that communication and computing will continue to be the drivers of the world until someone invents a real warp drive. Those two still have tremendous growth potential for as far as MY eyes can see. No one has done better at those two things to date. If and when that happens we'll have plenty of time to move with that. Look how sloooooowly Microsoft is unraveling. That's it. That's my pitch. Pretty simple really. Thanks for asking.
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Post by Apple II+ on Nov 23, 2016 21:39:04 GMT -8
Since when? Take Apple for example. Apple exists to enrich us? I don't think so. Of course it does. It's called a fiduciary duty. Tim Cook himself has a fiduciary duty to us as an inside director of Apple. That doesn't mean they don't try to make great products and services and be customer-centric. But we own Apple, not the Board, not Apple Store employees, not customers, and certainly not the government or society as a whole. You think Steve Jobs was just interested in soldering circuit boards to share with Woz's geek friends when he incorporated, and when he took Apple public? No, he wanted to be a billionaire. But there's a legal duty you take on when you go public and raise billions of other people's money - there's a catch. Steve Jobs was motivated primarily by changing the world. We rely on fiduciary duty, but it's wrong to magnify fiduciary duty into "the entire point of [Apple] is to enrich" us. Happy Thanksgiving!
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