Since84
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Post by Since84 on May 14, 2019 2:37:14 GMT -8
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Since84
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Post by Since84 on May 14, 2019 3:09:07 GMT -8
Posts and Moderation
This Board is self moderated.
What does that mean? It means we respect one another. Discussion of everything Apple (AAPL) is welcomed and encouraged. If we disagree, we disagree with the contents not the individual.
Apple is part of a larger world. It is impacted by world events, politics, and personalities. Again discussion of Apple in the context of the larger world is welcomed and encouraged. Again, disagreement should focus on the contents not the individual posting.
What about posts that focus on world events, politics, and personalities. As a general rule, if Apple (AAPL) is not mentioned in your post it is probably a good indicator that this is not the place for it. Lovey, our Boards founder had the foresight to create the Dungeon, where everyone is free to discuss anything. Take the political discussions there, but, again, please be respectful of the posters with whom you disagree.
Why is respect so important? To start with, it is likely that half the people reading here disagree with you. That's what makes markets work. We come here for diverse opinions, looking for our blind spots. We are unlikely to find them if everyone on the board has the same perspective.
Valuable contributors have left the board in the past due to personal attacks. It would be unwise to lose any more perspectives.
As a rule the moderators do not moderate -- unless a post is particularly egregious (e.g. porn). Since all posters are registered users this has not been an issue.
***
Yesterday a post was deleted. Unfortunately a deleted post is unavailable for further review or discussion so I cannot comment on the specific post.
Our preference is that the person who made the post edit or delete it.
As a general rule, the moderators will discuss and review offending posts before they are deleted. Of course, there are exceptions. In the event of something egregious it would be deleted immediately.
Hope that helps to explain the philosophy of the Board.
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Since84
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Post by Since84 on May 14, 2019 3:34:16 GMT -8
RE: The App Store Anti-Trust Case "Tying", linking the sale of one good or service to another, used to be considered a 'per se' violation of the anti-trust laws. If one could demonstrate that a per se violation of the ant-trust laws occurred, no further evidence was needed into the practice's actual effect on the market or the intentions of those individuals who engaged in the practice. The seminal case was Xerox. Once upon a time Xerox required the use of their paper with their machines. Ironically, the Xerox paper was of a higher and consistent quality so as not to cause problems. None the less, the FTC successfully prosecuted resulting in Xerox eliminating paper sales. There are some rather clear parallels to Apple and the App Store. Fortunately, the justice department no longer considers tying a per se violation. None the less there is precedent.
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Post by Lstream on May 14, 2019 3:51:54 GMT -8
It was my post that was deleted. I made no personal attack on any member here. Unless Trump is a member. There have been all kinds of insults and attacks on here by Trump supporters to non-believers. And the other way around too. As far as I know, none have ever been deleted.
I guess my post struck a nerve with a mod because of what I said about Trump. Which in summary was:
1. He is a failed businessman in spite of $400M from Daddy. 2. He is damaging innocents like farmers and honest businesses without having a clue what he is doing. 3. My main point is that you have some hugely incompetent pretender negotiating with the Chinese who will own him. And he will crow about a hollow and non existent victory. 4. And finally, that he is an entitled fat ass, laughing at the people supporting him. A charlatan.
All on a day where Apple shareholders took a bath as a direct result of his idiocy. Just watch. Our shareholder pain will be for nothing. And all the damage he is causing to farmers and businesses will be for nothing. Because all he cares about is the feeding of his narcissistic personality. He will sell every one of these stakeholders out. Just watch and wait for it.
Let’s see how long this post stays up, before it gets deleted by someone who can’t handle someone who is having none of the nonsense that is Trump.
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Post by Lstream on May 14, 2019 4:02:22 GMT -8
And one more thing. Trump and China is absolutely relevant to the discussion here. We are at severe risk of a direct hit to Apple, both by China, and the economic impact of tarrifs and whatever else is coming.
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Since84
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Post by Since84 on May 14, 2019 4:07:00 GMT -8
Lstream is correct that no other posts have been deleted by the moderators.
He is also correct that there are many posts pro and con that get close if not over the edge. The challenge of consistency is one of the reasons why we do not moderate the Board.
We rely on you to stay on topic. When a post that goes too far, we will ask you to move the discussion to the dungeon.
Unless related to Apple (for instance the MarketWatch article above), please keep all political conversation in the dungeon.
Thanks.
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Post by Lstream on May 14, 2019 4:17:02 GMT -8
That Marketwatch link does not work. Here is a corrected link. This article is basically saying the same thing I am saying. Which is that all this damage will end up being for nothing.
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Post by hledgard on May 14, 2019 5:05:51 GMT -8
I myself feel put off by some of the recent posts. Makes me feel uncomfortable, on this discussion board which I have loved.
Of some note, there are some intelligent people who feel that no trade deal is in the best long range interests of this country. I was married to a Chines lady for some time, and I can assure you, China is not a free country.
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Post by carbonate24 on May 14, 2019 5:25:04 GMT -8
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Post by Lstream on May 14, 2019 5:52:41 GMT -8
I myself feel put off by some of the recent posts. Makes me feel uncomfortable, on this discussion board which I have loved. Of some note, there are some intelligent people who feel that no trade deal is in the best long range interests of this country. I was married to a Chines lady for some time, and I can assure you, China is not a free country. I think we should all feel uncomfortable. China not being a free country is not really what matters as an Apple shareholder. Apple is facing a threat from its own president. How are we all going to feel when Samsung avoids tariffs altogether, and are handed a free pricing advantage? And if and when Apple is singled out by China for retaliation? What is making you uncomfortable? Strong opinions about the possible disaster Trump is authoring, and that posters like me are not buying what he is selling? Or that Apple is facing a dangerous threat to its health from “within”?
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walterwhite
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Post by walterwhite on May 14, 2019 6:35:26 GMT -8
This Board is self moderated. *** Yesterday a post was deleted.
ummmm... that's an oxymoron... just sayin'
(don't delete pls )
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walterwhite
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Post by walterwhite on May 14, 2019 6:41:51 GMT -8
Hello everyone. New poster here. Read some of the older threads, really inspired by Luckychoices story and trading philosophy, which I share. Long AAPL for many years. On a different topic, I am puzzled as to why the discussion of politics as related to AAPL are taboo. Today is a perfect example of politics directly effecting the stock price. Political comments that are factual and relevant to AAPL are useful in my opinion. I am disappointed in the arbitrary action of deleting relevant comments. agree ... not cool at all it's already painful as it is to watch aapl slide almost 15% from recent high of $215 it touched after earnings..... because of some bullshit political actions that have *nothing* to do with aapl's core business....
it's ludicrous to expect people to contain frustration about trump when he directly affects apple's price and our wealth. imagine obama or a democrat putting a tax on apple (tariffs are a tax, nothing more, nothing less) or telling them to manufacture in the us.... would be labeled an overreaching communist
want direct relevance to aapl? here's what cnbc says this morning:
"The iPhone XS price would go from $1,000 to $1,142, the firm calculates, if the White House implements a 25% tariff on the rest of China imports. Bank of America estimates a 20% price increase to the iPhone if Apple decides to move iPhone manufacturing to the U.S."
insane.... how the hell did it come to this....
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Post by Lstream on May 14, 2019 6:44:26 GMT -8
Hello everyone. New poster here. Read some of the older threads, really inspired by Luckychoices story and trading philosophy, which I share. Long AAPL for many years. On a different topic, I am puzzled as to why the discussion of politics as related to AAPL are taboo. Today is a perfect example of politics directly effecting the stock price. Political comments that are factual and relevant to AAPL are useful in my opinion. I am disappointed in the arbitrary action of deleting relevant comments. agree ... not cool at all it's already painful as it is to watch aapl slide almost 15% from recent high of $215 it touched after earnings..... because of some bullshit political actions that have *nothing* to do with aapl's core business.... it's ludicrous to expect people to contain frustration about trump when directly affects apple's price and our wealth. imagine obama or a democrat putting a tax on apple (tariffs are a tax, nothing more, nothing less) or telling them to manufacture in the us.... would be labeled an overreaching communist want direct relevance to aapl? here's what cnbc says this morning: "The iPhone XS price would go from $1,000 to $1,142, the firm calculates, if the White House implements a 25% tariff on the rest of China imports. Bank of America estimates a 20% price increase to the iPhone if Apple decides to move iPhone manufacturing to the U.S." insane.... how the hell did it come to this....
Thank you. And damn rights I am frustrated and pissed as a long term shareholder.
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chinacat
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Post by chinacat on May 14, 2019 6:50:53 GMT -8
This Board is self moderated. *** Yesterday a post was deleted.
ummmm... that's an oxymoron... just sayin'
I don't understand your reply. The meaning is that it is moderated by a committee of members, as opposed to an administrative arm of the newsgroup technical host, ProBoards. Just sayin'
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walterwhite
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Post by walterwhite on May 14, 2019 6:54:06 GMT -8
I myself feel put off by some of the recent posts. Makes me feel uncomfortable, on this discussion board which I have loved. Of some note, there are some intelligent people who feel that no trade deal is in the best long range interests of this country. I was married to a Chines lady for some time, and I can assure you, China is not a free country.
no sympathy for china here...
but do you own any aapl?
the kind of trade war trump is waging is guaranteed to hurt apple. it already has - i sure wish i had less stock than i did a week ago, don't you?
should apple even do business in china? maybe cave in like google and fbook and say forget it, it's not a free country, we won't do business there - neither sell there nor manufacture there. a. that still won't make china a free country, so would be for naught b. apple's business would shrink accordingly... lose 20% of sales + 20% more expensive to manufacture remaining stuff (if cnbc estimate to be believed, i thought it would be much more) how much should aapl value shrink in response?
we already took a bloodbath in december & january due to china problems.... i'm tired of hearing china-china-china-tariffs-tariffs-tariffs.... i thought trade wars were good and easy to win?
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Since84
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Post by Since84 on May 14, 2019 6:58:08 GMT -8
This Board is self moderated. *** Yesterday a post was deleted. ummmm... that's an oxymoron... just sayin' (don't delete pls ) Understood. Not to excuse anything, but the post in question is the only one to have been deleted in several years. The moderators all agree that it should have been handled differently. Our preference has been and remains to ask people to edit or remove their own posts -- and take non-Apple discussion to the Dungeon. The moderators are continuing discussions regarding when deletion is or is not appropriate. For the record, spam, porn, or other egregious content will be deleted immediately. For the most part, they are a non-issue.
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walterwhite
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Post by walterwhite on May 14, 2019 7:04:48 GMT -8
ummmm... that's an oxymoron... just sayin'
I don't understand your reply. The meaning is that it is moderated by a committee of members, as opposed to an administrative arm of the newsgroup technical host, ProBoards. Just sayin'
huh? i thought the meaning of "self-moderated" is that each person (self) self-moderates.... i.e. decides what to write and what to post and what not to post. since84 even went on a long sermon about respect and thinking what you say, and each person *self*-deleting posts or moving to dungeon.
then in the same post he says "a post was deleted".... not by the poster, but by a mod. that's an oxymoron
The challenge of consistency is one of the reasons why we do not moderate the Board.
so is it "moderated by a committee of members", or "we do not moderate the board"? just need some consistency
i didn't even post here until recently, was lurking and enjoying discussion. i don't much like the political flare-ups (apolitical myself) - but i want free speech above all. moderation actions without asking the poster to self-monitor is clearly an overreach
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Post by artman1033 on May 14, 2019 7:08:13 GMT -8
And one more thing. Trump and China is absolutely relevant to the discussion here. We are at severe risk of a direct hit to Apple, both by China, and the economic impact of tarrifs and whatever else is coming. EXCELLENT post. KEEP THE NAME CALLING FOR THE DUNGEON. RESPECT THE INTRADAY THREAD.
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walterwhite
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Post by walterwhite on May 14, 2019 7:08:33 GMT -8
Not to excuse anything, but the post in question is the only one to have been deleted in several years. The moderators all agree that it should have been handled differently. Our preference has been and remains to ask people to edit or remove their own posts -- and take non-Apple discussion to the Dungeon. The moderators are continuing discussions regarding when deletion is or is not appropriate. For the record, spam, porn, or other egregious content will be deleted immediately. For the most part, they are a non-issue. ok, that's cool. i'll get out of your hair now.
thanks for starting threads and link, btw, that's appreciated
just really frustrating times with aapl right now
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benoir
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Post by benoir on May 14, 2019 7:11:57 GMT -8
The only possible way the Trump administration could ‘win’ this trade war is by going in for the long game - bludgeoning customers with tariffs until manufacturing is brought to the USA. This will take years and for companies like Apple that source globally, it my not even be possible. This is not good for Apple. An iPhone made in the USA would probably cost more than an iPhone made in China with tariffs. So what’s the point?...it’s just folly.
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Post by Lstream on May 14, 2019 7:13:19 GMT -8
And one more thing. Trump and China is absolutely relevant to the discussion here. We are at severe risk of a direct hit to Apple, both by China, and the economic impact of tarrifs and whatever else is coming. EXCELLENT post. KEEP THE NAME CALLING FOR THE DUNGEON. RESPECT THE INTRADAY THREAD. I have called no one here names.
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chinacat
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Post by chinacat on May 14, 2019 7:15:23 GMT -8
huh? i thought the meaning of "self-moderated" is that each person (self) self-moderates.... i.e. decides what to write and what to post and what not to post. since84 even went on a long sermon about respect and thinking what you say, and each person *self*-deleting posts or moving to dungeon. then in the same post he says "a post was deleted".... not by the poster, but by a mod. that's an oxymoron
Well, perhaps it is handled differently in different newsgroups, but that's the way this list is moderated. Moderation has been non-existent in general, and the moderators are still working together to iron out the process, working to respect both the poster and the health of the group.
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Post by macster on May 14, 2019 7:23:13 GMT -8
Lets not forget that ever since China was admitted into the WTO 20 years ago, China has been like the Huns invading western countries unabated. They don't play by the rules. There is plenty of blame to go around including our CEO who so foolishly threw much collateral into China despite dire warning or concern how China reforms were progressing. There is no one to blame as far as your money in Apple is concerned other than yourselves and myself. But... I cant imagine this will get much worst than it is.
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Post by sponge on May 14, 2019 7:23:16 GMT -8
Someone just bought $5.6 million worth of 170 June 21 PUTS. My target is 158 for June 21. That person stands to make $39.5 million if my target hits.
OI for 180 puts keeps going up this week. We could see major correction tomorrow.
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benoir
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Post by benoir on May 14, 2019 7:33:43 GMT -8
This article gives some perspective to tariffs as a whole —> Tariffs as a tax still probably not good for Apple. samsung should do well....
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Post by sponge on May 14, 2019 7:33:59 GMT -8
Lets not forget that ever since China was admitted into the WTO 20 years ago, China has been like the Huns invading western countries unabated. They don't play by the rules. There is plenty of blame to go around including our CEO who so foolishly threw much collateral into China despite dire warning or concern how China reforms were progressing. There is no one to blame as far as your money in Apple is concerned other than yourselves and myself. But... I cant imagine this will get much worst than it is. I think those concerns is why we went from 233 to 142 in 3 months and why we will go even lower in the next 16 months. Trumps tweets don’t inspire resolution. When he talks about building here to avoid tariffs, that is code word the tariffs are not going away anytime soon. I still think Trump will make a deal by end of June, but it will have lots of wiggle room for both sides with tariffs still in place. There will always be a cloud over what can happen next. What will drag aapl down will be good old fundamentals.
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Post by Lstream on May 14, 2019 7:37:54 GMT -8
Lets not forget that ever since China was admitted into the WTO 20 years ago, China has been like the Huns invading western countries unabated. They don't play by the rules. There is plenty of blame to go around including our CEO who so foolishly threw much collateral into China despite dire warning or concern how China reforms were progressing. There is no one to blame as far as your money in Apple is concerned other than yourselves and myself. But... I cant imagine this will get much worst than it is. Disagree about the Apple CEO comment. You cannot single Apple out. Almost every tech company of consequence builds there. Especially at the volumes that Apple needs. There is NOWHERE ELSE in the world that can deliver what Apple needs. There is nothing foolish about what Apple has done. This is just one more double standard being applied to Apple.
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4aapl
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Post by 4aapl on May 14, 2019 7:38:09 GMT -8
just really frustrating times with aapl right now
While it's tough when stocks move around, especially when they move around a lot more than expected or what you would feel it should due to certain news, it is what happens. It's a massive group psychology type thing, with people over-hyped to the upside and downside. No one knows what is going to happen in the future with absolute certainty, but at times like this where a stocks and the whole market move, people want the safety blanket of thinking that someone knows what is going to happen. But if you take a step back and look at the stock and the market with a mindset of your actual timeframe, you can knock out a lot of this worry. There's still some worry even if thinking the tariff situation will work itself out over x months, in this case of China continuing to push internally the anti-US products mindset which would limit sales of Apple products there, and the cost of moving production elsewhere if needed. But those are close to the worst case scenarios, and if you apply a percent probability mindset to it, you can quantify it (even if it's just a wild-ass guess). I temporarily lost a huge amount in this past 6 trading days, and could have made a huge amount if I foresaw this dip. But earlier today you said "i sure wish i had less stock than i did a week ago, don't you?" I've been holding shares for over 21 years now, with many ups and downs, but including losing as much as 85%, a couple times. Now that really sucked, especially the times where AAPL dropped first, or when AAPL dropped alone. This time, it's a whole market thing, even if some companies have more exposure and have dropped larger percentages than others. But while quick and relatively strong, this drop is just a drop in the bucket. On the moderating side, when switching over from the previous list owner we had a few people volunteer to help moderate. Following the past, we decided to try to let people self-moderate, reminding them to general be nice and on-topic, and that if they really felt they had to post something that didn't fit that, to put it in the Dungeon or a similar other location. Mostly that has worked, but people get testy when bad things outside of their control happen, and things have flared up in some posts. One post was deleted. Attempting to moderate is a tough thing since there's not a simple litmus test. We're still trying to figure things out, but agree now that for the most part (there it goes again) we want to ask people to manage themselves, move things when needed, and try to avoid deleting things. But like AAPL, or any investment, it's good to take the long term view. The difference is that here, the investment is in the community.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on May 14, 2019 7:38:28 GMT -8
Someone just bought $5.6 million worth of 170 June 21 PUTS. My target is 158 for June 21. That person stands to make $39.5 million if my target hits. OI for 180 puts keeps going up this week. We could see major correction tomorrow. Thank you!
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Since84
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Post by Since84 on May 14, 2019 7:58:24 GMT -8
The 170 puts make sense. That is within the realm of possibility.
As for you're 158 target, I see where you're coming from. Yes there is a gap. Boy do I hope you're wrong...
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